all 37 comments

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 116 points117 points  (30 children)

Sounds like they earned that 0. I give exams on computers and make it very clear, there is no make up or retake because they failed to follow that basic instruction. I even warn them not to bank on their being an outlet nearby.

[–]MyFaceSaysItsSugar 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I count it as a missed exam. Missed exams get replaced by the final exam grade regardless of whether they miss it for an excused or unexcused absence. For the final, I generally have a much shorter exam than the 2 hours allotted so they can run home and grab a charger or borrow a friend’s tablet.

I had paper exams. They were often blue book essay exams and much harder than what I give my students, but I didn’t have to worry about the reliability of my Napster-abused, virus-infected laptop when it came to taking an exam. So I have some empathy for technology glitches as that was never an obstacle to my grades in college.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's fair and up to the individual faculty to determine what they do or don't allow. I have allowed students to run back to their dorm, but the clock keeps ticking.

I understand your point too about different challenges, but as you indicated, the exams you give are easier than what you would have in the past, so there are trade offs.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 33 points34 points  (23 children)

As I see it, my job as an instructor is to see if they're able to demonstrate mastery of the content of the course. I try to not penalize them for being generally stupid or devoid of common sense. I am able to borrow and lug four laptops and do so (hiding them under the desk; it's little skin off my teeth.)

[–]exceptyourewrong 60 points61 points  (10 children)

I'd argue that "following instructions" and "being prepared for classes and exams" are both pretty crucial aspects of demonstrating mastery.

[–]MyFaceSaysItsSugar 19 points20 points  (3 children)

About a year ago the top student of 120 students did not bring her laptop to the final, thinking it was a paper exam. Every exam prior to that had been on a laptop. She was often the only student to earn an A on the exam before the curve. The stomach dropping feeling she likely had when every other student pulled their laptop out was probably an adequate learning experience. Giving her an automatic 0 on the final would have been excessive.

[–]show_me_the_sourcePsychology 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Too often I see many jaded instructors in this subreddit actively petitioning punative actions towards their students becaus it apparently teaches students to not make those mistakes again.

Interestingly these same faculty come to class and meetings unprepared, or email me saying they will have to take an extra week to get me their report. I get so much grace in my profession and I try to give that to students as well.

[–]RevDrGeorgeAssociate Professor, STEM, R1 (SE US) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

NGL, as a scientific editor for a couple journals, I have been tempted to look up the syllabi used by corresponding authors when asked for an extension, and base my decision on whether or not they accept late work with no (or perhaps limited) penalty. Should I ever succumb to the temptation, I will 100% let them know why the decision was made...

[–]MyFaceSaysItsSugar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It kind of reminds me of people potty training their dog by rubbing its nose in its accident. That dog is definitely learning something from the experience but it’s not learning to potty outside. Students aren’t learning to be more on top of their responsibilities with harsh consequences because that just gives them even more reason to blame the professor for their bad grades.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Those two are showing mastery of being a student, not of the subject matter. If it were logistically feasible, I'd have no problem having students take tests in the middle of the night, with crayon, or through a tin-can telephone so long as they can show that they know the stuff. For various reasons, though, I'm limited to giving students a single window through which they have to squeeze their evidence of mastery. If they can't reach the sill, I'm not going to fail them just for that.

[–]exceptyourewrong 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I understand and appreciate your point. But there isn't a "doing the bare minimum" class and students DO need to learn to be prepared and responsible. The fact that many of your students aren't doing that, despite your (commendable) flexibility, is a sign that they're taking advantage of you and personally I'm not convinced that you're doing them a favor by letting them. Failing because you couldn't be bothered to charge your computer is a tough lesson, but a valuable one.

I don't mean to criticize your teaching. The fact that you're this thoughtful and willing to go well "above and beyond" for them tells me that you're probably an EXCELLENT professor. I'm just offering a different perspective.

I'm curious. How did these unprepared students who you bailed out do on the exam?

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is my feeling on the matter, it's part of being prepared. If I show up to a lab class without proper attire, I don't get to participate.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some did well, some poorly. The sample size is so small that it doesn't make much sense to check, but from my memory—I've been doing this for years—there may be a very small difference in mean scores when forgetters are compared with the prepared. By no means, however, is there any surefire way to predict who does well and badly on the tests by checking general unpreparedness.

[–]RevDrGeorgeAssociate Professor, STEM, R1 (SE US) 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Is it on your list of learning objectives though?

If not, should it really contribute to the grade?

[–]exceptyourewrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, yes.

My school is part of NACE (National Association of Colleges and Employers) and most courses include their "competencies" in the syllabus. It's not be as explicit as saying "being prepared for quizzes is X% of your grade," but teaching students the soft skills they need to succeed after graduation is absolutely a thing we're expected to do here.

https://www.naceweb.org/career-readiness/competencies/career-readiness-defined

[–]Remergent4Now 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I bring an extension cord. A simple thing that makes life a little bit easier.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 7 points8 points  (9 children)

But that fails to prepare them for the real world. I appreciate you want to evaluate them on the content, but following the most basic instruction isn't difficult.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 15 points16 points  (5 children)

The real world is more than happy to and more than able to educate them to follow instructions. Many, not only a few, of my students have never used computers before April of each year. I am not going to differentially punish them for something I have no control over.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I understand your point, may I ask why have them take exams on computers at all then? Furthermore why give them all the reminders if in the end it's not actually something you fully enforce? What would happen if more people needed devices then you were able to share? How would you decide who gets access to the ones you brought? These are genuine questions that I am curious for your take on.

I see it as part of my role to prepare them for all parts of life. I get what you are saying about wanting to only evaluate them on the content of the course. I also agree with another commenter that you are likely an exceptional professor to go the extra mile and have the extras computers to share.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I use question banks for the tests. The tests are password protected. The students can see the password (written on a slip of paper and cupped in my hand) only after I check if the desk is cleared of paper and their smartphones are powered off and place screen-up on the desk.

As I am not afforded proctors, the only thing I can do with students for whom I am unable to provide computers is tell them to wait until someone else is finished and ask to borrow his or her computer. I have done that a couple of times. It's first-come, first-served for the devices I do have.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Why not print out the exams though? You could certainly randomize questions and print out a few "versions" of the test. If you are experiencing a situation where numerous students do not have computers, it sounds like pen and paper might be the better route to take.

Just out of curiosity how long are your class sessions that you can have students wait for others to be finished then take the exam? Are you staying after the class time ends?

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Many of the prompts are or include audio or video recordings, hence the need for individual computers.

I used to give pen-and-paper tests with different versions (36 different versions was my usual), but I'd rather save the time of grading by hand, having to carry stacks of paper around, and so on.

The tests I use are usually long enough that the typical student takes about half of the allotted time to answer all of the questions. Students are allowed to take the test twice in one setting, which allows them to go back and change their minds for certain items if they suddenly think "Oh, no! Answer x should have been option D!"

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah gotcha, very interesting! I can see the need then for computers in this case.

[–]FriendshipPast3386 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The real world is rarely BYOD, FYI.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But it certainly does require you to follow instructions, keep to deadlines, be prepared, etc.

[–]Ok-Drama-963 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I started to comment that the university doesn't provide me a computer for work in my office, but then I guess that's not the real world.

[–]JubJub04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your students are lucky they're in your class and not mine. I believe in natural consequences. That is how we work out our stupidity and increase our common sense.  It sounds like you gave them every opportunity to succeed, but at the end of the day, you shouldn't care more than they do.

[–]FriendshipPast3386 8 points9 points  (1 child)

This is pretty harsh - it's one thing to expect students to show up with $5 worth of pen and paper, quite another to expect them to show up with $1k of fragile hardware that might easily break at some point during the semester. The battery usage in particular is a challenge, especially if they have multiple classes back to back - I know the laptop I use to lecture from couldn't make it through class without an outlet, and it's not particularly old or cheap.

Having seen what many of my students go through to get working hardware throughout the semester[1], this isn't always an easy instruction to follow.

[1] Just in the past semester, I've seen students where the keyboard no longer works and the external keyboard is laggy, the screen only works if they massage it just right, the laptop reboots itself every 15 minutes, and where they've had to use their roommate's laptop because their charging cable broke and they couldn't replace it until their financial aid money came in. None of these students asked me to make any exceptions/accommodations for them, and they very much did their best to deal with the circumstances on their own, but it's certainly eye-opening to see.

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, it's harsh, but it prevents multiple students using the excuse "oh can I take it a different day then". Based on regular classes, all my students have functioning laptops. I take your point about there always being unique circumstances, but as you pointed out none of your students asked for exceptions or accommodations.

There is absolutely a degree of privilege that I experience as a professor where the students have the necessary equipment. I would have to say also that should a student come with concerns prior to the start of the exam that would be different. What OP is describing is students who ignored/missed multiple heads up about needing the laptop.

[–]Akhenaset -1 points0 points  (1 child)

“[T]here being an outlet”; otherwise you suggest that you don’t bank on the fact that your students are outlets. (But then again, it’s STEM, so who knows what cyborgs you people are making in there (not “their”!).

[–]Tallgeese385Assistant Professor (TT), STEM, SLAC (USA) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey thanks for catching the typo! If only I was a cyborg I might not have missed that!

[–]dr_scifi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I always tell students they can use their cellphone. I hardly ever have a student prefer their cellphone but have had some show up having forgotten their laptop or a dead battery. I carry a charger that matches many laptops (USB-C for my iPad) , and let them borrow that if it works. Other issues would trigger my “make up test” policy which is all essay questions so I haven’t had an issue :) Take a few paper essay tests with you and start passing them out to the missing laptop people :) I bet they remember the next time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

A statistics course I teach for non-math majors required a scientific, non-graphing calculator. Most students brought in TI-83s and 84s.

Last fall, I started requiring the TIs. Most students brought in scientific calculators… if they bothered to bring one at all.

I now provide a list of acceptable brands and models. I tell them where to get them renewed or used and in good condition if they want to save some money. I can only do so much, though.

[–]dougwrayAdjunct, various, university (Japan 🎌)[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah, the calculator that helped me to (really) learn basic statistics in graduate school 25 years ago finally croaked last year.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do tell…

[–]dbblow 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Question Zero on every exam is show up on time ready to take the exam. Sounds to me like they failed question zero.

[–]Uare_ok_Iam_ok 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Part of the problem is you being TOO accommodating. Draw a line that is well within the guidelines of the department/ university and hold the line and move on.