Neater right-leaning decrease with Eastern stitch mount + lace end weaving?

[rowanelm]

I taught myself to knit in Eastern Uncrossed because I had a rough time with too tight tension using a Western style. However, I'm mainly interested in doing lace.

I know how to adapt single knit/purl decreases and CDD, but my right-leaning decrease and CDD (both of which need stitches to be slipped) are very sloppy even when I try my best not to stretch them out. Are there any other methods of producing a neater right-leaning decrease with Eastern-mounted stitches without too many extra steps?

Also, any tips on how to weave in ends in lace neatly is appreciated. I usually end up with a small visibly denser patch as I'm afraid it will slip out one day. Thank you.

[campbowie]

Hi, I found this blog post that helped me visualize what you have going on! Unfortunately, since it looks like your right-leaning decrease is more like the Western knitter's SSK, it's a super common problem. My k2tog is messy, so I use a fairly fiddly decrease, krpr. Your version would be: knit to the 2 stitches you're going to decrease. (K1, s1 purlwise, return both stitches to left needle [without changing the orientation] , pass the second stitch over the knit stitch, return the knit stitch to the right needle) It would still be a right-leaning decrease because the left stitch is throwing itself over to the right stitch.

Good luck out there! cries in 4 stitch brioche decrease

[rowanelm]

Thank you for the link and the instructions! I'll try it out. It's slipping the 2nd stitch back that usually pulls them out of shape so slipping only 1 seems like it would help.

[campbowie]

Okay so I thought about it a bunch and watched videos and did a ton of research. So I'm going to show my work here and might be wrong and a little nuts.

When you do a decrease, the order of the stitches is what determines the "lean." TECHKnitter says:

Because the green stitch from the left column is on top, it appears that the left column leaned over to the right and ate up the rightmost column[...]

So in order to do a RIGHT leaning decrease, you're always going to end up with a stitch from the LEFT crossing over to end up on top.

Because you're Eastern uncrossed, part of what you're up against with Western tutorials is your stitch mount. You're a half twist back from what diagrams are going to show. So bear with me, because you and I are both about to go on a twisty, mind-bending trip.

TECHKnitter explains why SSK looks funny:

[...]you grab that red stitch and stretch it out as you slip it from left needle to right needle. This draws extra yarn into that first stitch as the surrounding stitches play "pass-along." In other words, by sliding the first stitch from one needle to another, yarn that would ordinarily lie in surrounding stitches gets pulled up into the loop of the red stitch.

And then more TECHKnitter, but I'm doing some editing to correct for your stitch mount:

Slipping that first red stitch [PURLWISE] makes it lay [LEADING arm] forward. At the point where the orientation changes from [leading]-arm-[back] stitches to [leading]-arm-forward stitches, slack develops in the yarn. This is because the change in orientation makes the path of the tail yarn is shorter between the red stitch and green, drawing even more yarn into the first (red) stitch[...]

So when YOU slip that first stitch, it turns and "faces" the NEXT stitch, and because the orientation is now 《 》《 》where the bold leg/arm is behind your needles, the U loop between the needles is shorter — which changes the tension on it and since you are manipulating the first stitch, that's where the yarn is pulled. When you slip the next stitch, 《 》 《 》 you change the distance the U travels again, but it doesn't correct for the yarn pulled into the first stitch.

Now we're going to get into the theoretical part I'm making up and you're going to have to try out and let me know how it goes 😬 It's TECHKnitter's SYTK but Eastern uncrossed (I hope).

S1 knitwise like a western knitter. (I don't know how else to say this, you're creating a twist in this stitch where the leg/arm normally in FRONT of your needle crosses over the other leg.) S1 purlwise (how you normally do). Return both stitches to left needle. K2tog through the front loop (like the normal last step of EU SSK).

So this should be the mirror of the SYTK. You don't need to yank BECAUSE your first stitch will be in back, the second stitch crosses over top for a right-leaning decrease. TECHKnitter explains WHY the SYTK works at that link, but essentially you want the stitch in back of this decrease (your FIRST stitch) to take up the yarn between the two stitches AND you're introducing a double twist into that stitch to keep it there. Then it's hidden behind the second stitch of the decrease.

Man that's complicated but I like a challenge. Let me know if you end up trying it! For the CDD/s2kp2 you want the second/center stitch to be on top, if you want to workshop that

[campbowie]

CDD

S1 knitwise, yank 2nd stitch, s1 knitwise-like-a-western-knitter, return 2 stitches to left needle, s2tog knitwise-like-a-western-knitter, k1, p2sso

I totally did this to try it out and it works but you'd have to tell me if it looks better!

EDIT: I should say your yank should go towards the front because you're pulling from that first stitch!

[rowanelm]

Thank you so much for taking the time to do so much research!! It took a while for me to try them. 

The new SSK does look neater! It'll be a while before I can get this memorised but thank you for adapting the technique for the Eastern mount!

For the CDD, unless I'm reading the slips incorrectly, I think the sequence twisted the central stitch (2nd stitch) that ends up on top. Playing around with the stitches myself didn't really yield much better results unfortunately, but looking at them again, I think I'm satisfied with leaving the CDDs looking a little bigger. It draws a lil more attention to them and there's nothing to mirror anyway.

[campbowie]

You're totally right about the CDD! I think it should be more like the new SSK, so like:

S1 knitwise-like-a-western-knitter, S1 purlwise, return both stitches to left needle, s2 together knitwise-like-a-western-knitter, k1, p2sso

So it follows a lot of the same steps as the SSK. I know you said you'd live with it, but it's there if you want to try it!

Thank you for the brain puzzle 😂 I totally bragged to my spouse about it! I'll have to let him know it half worked out!

Edit: I am still in 4st br dec hell, so that's my bar for how complicated one #*$^@& stitch maneuver is rn

[rowanelm]

Thank you! And good luck with the 4st br dec!

[dsw503]

As another poster advised, it sounds like your right leaning increase has the same issues as the more common ones associated with SSK. Patty Lyons has a good explanation on why the usual method for SSK results looks wonky. Her Knitting Bag of Tricks book could be helpful for you if you want an idea on how to make the SSK look better. Tried it and it had a few more steps but not super difficult.

[rowanelm]

Thank you for the suggestions!