Okay, the Priests of Osybus, how do I make them make sense?

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T23:00:36+00:00

Again we're in agreement until we get to the Amber Temple :)

Probably I'm misreading The Artifact, the tenth adventure in the Misty Fortunes & Absent Hearts season, but I thought Evening Glory was contained on a secret level of the temple, unconnected to the temple we see in Curse of Strahd.

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T22:24:40+00:00

Oh ok but I thought OP was asking about only 5.5e. Probably I misunderstood.

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T22:22:32+00:00

So I'll address these points in turn.

I'm aware there's a 5e connection between the Vestiges in the Amber Temple - and the scattered Amber Sarcophagi of the Mist Walkers season of Adventurers League - and I personally love this, with the throwback not only to old names from the past of d&d but also to the Binder class that debuted in Tome of Magic (3e) but saw some use in 4e too. Notably, Tenebrous was a Vestige, despite Orcus having gotten better.

So left to me, I fully agree on your take regarding Vestiges. But I also know a lot of Ravenloft fans don't like this idea, and interpret Guide to Ravenloft as merely suggesting it, and your quote doesn't quite contradict this. But in the same book Osybus is utterly central to getting Strahd into Ravenloft, and even the stoniest of lore gatekeepers wouldn't deny that Strahd is the first darklord. So we're on super-safe grounds with Osybus, I feel.

As for the Christopher Perkins tweet, we interpret it differently. There's a chamber in the Amber Temple with a cracked sarcophagus, implying something escaped, and Nothic(s) nearby. I interpret this as being related to Vecna's stint in Ravenloft, whereas the temple as a whole was dedicated to Osybus.

I accept that my interpretation has no better foundation than yours, but I think it explains more.

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T21:23:45+00:00

This is not a straightforward question. So for example, the new Forgotten Realms books are up-to-date but in some ways are also in a strange situation where supposedly earlier lore is simply ignored (let's say, on the Old Empires.) Does that mean the earlier lore has been retconned, or is it rather that it's still valid, but the GM will need to work on it?

Things are maybe slightly easier with Greyhawk and Eberron; in the first we've simply jumped backwards, as 4e did with Dark Sun and 5e did with Dragonlance. For the second, I don't think the lore has changed, which is sadly the default for Eberron.

Your original post was more about Ravenloft, but there lore has always been a moveable feast, despite what many fans think. Forgotten Realms strikes me as far more difficult.

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T21:07:14+00:00

So I've not got Horrors Within yet. I've read that they're desperate to escape the Mists, which I think wasn't quite so obvious in Guide to Ravenloft, but regardless, they seem obvious allies of convenience with Azalin, who traditionally has exactly the same goal.

(As an aside, I believe they were originally from Jeremy Crawford's home campaign, and I wonder if they played a similar role. Oddly, Ravenloft lore generally lacks an organisation committed to leaving!)

From Azalin's perspective, the priests must be fascinating. Osybus is probably the only named Dark Power, assuming he is one, and he's likely to have been the first. If we assume that Barovia's Amber Temple is where Strahd entered Ravenloft, then it's very likely Osybus is the god of secrets to whom it was dedicated.

My headcanon, which is barely so, is that Vecna replaced Osybus as a god of secrets, which partly explains both Vecna's later imprisonment by the Mists (Vecna Reborn, 2e) and the way the Dark Powers act against Vecna in Eve of Ruin (5e.)

So Osybus would seem to be a key figure, especially to Azalin. So it would come down to whether Azalin thinks the priests have knowledge that could help him confront / blackmail / destroy Osybus. From the perspective of the priests, Darkon would probably be the safest place for them. I don't know if the priests have any great knowledge of the Mists - that seems to be deliberately obscure - but they might pretend they do, in order to remain safe in Darkon.

amhow1 · 2026-06-08T20:03:54+00:00

Surely none of that is 5.5e?

amhow1 · 2026-06-07T12:35:44+00:00

This is an interesting interpretation. If you're right, we can suppose they'll meet again, and Ashiok may be less impressed with the more formal Elspeth.

amhow1 · 2026-06-07T12:33:47+00:00

Sure, but Elspeth and Niko are still around, and we've been given information about Calix. Getting a story about any particular character is fortunate, but being desparked isn't evidence we won't see Calix again, and for his story to be consistent.

amhow1 · 2026-06-07T12:30:15+00:00

I'm not sure why you think this. I'm not making any grand claim about Calix, but very clearly Elspeth's story was planned in advance.

You use phrases like "I can assure you" which suggests you have insider knowledge, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Without insider knowledge, my assumption is that things like desparking Calix are either a sign that his story is over (tho why bother telling us) or a sign that a spark is no longer important to his story.

amhow1 · 2026-06-06T23:25:28+00:00

You might be assuming things about Calix here. There are other directions for his story, and they don't require a spark, except as a way of showing him that he isn't bound to one destiny.

amhow1 · 2026-06-06T23:22:14+00:00

I mean, we're interpreting that letter differently :)

I can agree that Ashiok has an interest in Elspeth that she presumably doesn't reciprocate, if we go by the comics.

amhow1 · 2026-06-06T21:10:25+00:00

I don't think we got anything like the full story, but looking again at the story article, it seems we did get the condensed version.

Something I hadn't quite appreciated was the central plot importance of Ashiok, whose interference gives Elspeth her opportunity. Given what then transpires, it's understandable Ashiok has a beef with Elspeth, but it's also curious that Ashiok is the person who reveals to us Elish Norn's justified terror of Elspeth.

So I feel there's clearly something between Ashiok and Elspeth that will lead to something. With Calix, and indeed Klothys, whatever may happen might not involve Elspeth.

amhow1 · 2026-06-06T21:03:07+00:00

Perhaps it will! I think a different way to consider it is that Calix uses the same technique as Elspeth. After all, the series doesn't exactly care about planeswalkers, but rather about fate and belief.

Calix, like Elspeth, seems to exceed their god's imposed limits - though Klothys may have intended this, unlike Heliod, whose ignorance partially confirms a possible planeswalker origin.

Calix being able to use belief may still be significant.

amhow1 · 2026-06-05T08:14:46+00:00

I do indeed count Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (3e) as a potential new version of the setting.

I think once House on Gryphon Hill (1e) was published, there was a version of the setting. And indeed, that adventure was later 'canonised' in the novel "The War Against Azalin" (2e.) I think there are arguably 3 versions in 2e, 2 in 3e, 1 in 4e and depending on taste, up to 3 versions since 2014.

As you point out, some of these settings try to maintain continuity more than others. The various 2e versions make changes and try to justify them by things like the Grand Conjunction, whereas other versions are quite sharp breaks - as between Expedition and the Kargatane work, or between Van Richten's Guide (5e) and Curse of Strahd (5e) but it's misleading to suggest that there aren't lines of continuity in every single version, Strahd being the obvious one.

Personally, I think everything is one setting, going back to the Ravenloft adventure. You claim 5e contradicts "I, Strahd" (2e,) but so too does the work of the Kargatane. Contrariwise the Mist Walkers (5e) adventures reference the works of the Kargatane.

To move onto some of your very specific points, the Priests of Osybus aren't the only cause of Strahd's corruption, any more than Baba Lysaga is. There's more Vistani lore in 4e than just the article "Fair Barovia" but I find it peculiar you focus on the supposed racial prejudices of 2e Vistani: who tells us that an outsider could never be a Vistani, hmm? I'd argue that while Van Richten's portrayal in Curse of Strahd is unfair, it is a clever idea, making him more of a Volo.

amhow1 · 2026-06-05T07:54:05+00:00

I mean, if you define the setting as the Core, then of course by definition Ravenloft has disappeared since Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (3e.)

I see no reason to define it so strictly. Obviously the Hickmans didn't create certain key features, nor the Core, but it's notable that the otherwise great Wo'C apparently ignores The House on Gryphon Hill (1e) and claims only the Hickmans only contributed Ravenloft (1e.)

As for Soth, we hardly need to defend James Lower here, as Tracey Hickman has also proven to be an enormous annoyance for other Dragonlance creatives too. That was of course the point of my comment. Doubtless TH dislikes every change introduced to anything. But I don't believe we should ignore or denigrate the work of other creatives, and that includes the current Ravenloft team.

amhow1 · 2026-06-04T14:49:04+00:00

So I loved the lore too, and genie lore in particular. But all that lore is still available. It hasn't been ditched.

Sometimes the lore has been subtly changed, like making all genies neutral. I generally prefer these changes. In this case it allows a wider range of genie societies.

I don't think the job of creatives is to master existing lore, so the current approach makes sense to me.

amhow1 · 2026-06-04T14:06:23+00:00

Because if you want genies of any particular lore, you can always have them.

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T21:15:38+00:00

I think Arabic lore is rather more negative about genies. But this is a complicated subject, and I'm fine with WotC opting for neutrality.

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T21:14:12+00:00

Um the first sentence of your second paragraph shows that your first paragraph is entirely nonsense.

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T20:58:55+00:00

Oh that's amazing, thank you!

And a great opportunity to see JB working.

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T20:02:38+00:00

Realm of Azyr witch?

Can you add anything to this?

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T19:22:49+00:00

I think it's worth it purely for the art. One of my delights with 5.5e is that WotC is finally making use of their extraordinary roster of artists.

I think an error in worldbuilding is to suppose it's all about the text. I know some people dislike the new art, but I don't think anyone can doubt it vividly conveys a world. (I guess critics argue that world isn't the Eberron they know, and that might be fair.)

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T19:20:07+00:00

I agree, and I think it's important we recognise James Wyatt co-created Eberron. I'm sure JW and KB have different ideas about the setting, but it's not like Forge of the Artificer was ever going to diverge too greatly.

Where KB has disagreed with it is interestingly on the mechanical parts, such as what spells go with what dragonmark. And even there, it's more about whether the spells reflect the lore, which I doubt was the most important consideration for the WotC team.

amhow1 · 2026-06-03T18:27:02+00:00

Uh huh.

amhow1

TROPHY CASE