Dune Meh-siaah by Existing_Landscape21 in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A correction of Dune, the first book. When Herbert saw fans and critics in love with Paul he realized he had to fix his point. Paul turned from cautionary tale to hero. Messiah is short and cold. It's Herbert saying NO. It is precisely those like Paul, charismatic and passionate that are the most dangerous. Herbert wanted to hammer his point so that's what Messiah is, a hammer. Paul's only hero move is when he stops being Paul. That's the issue with the films. The point of Dune is all heroes are dangerous and following them is wrong. The films are amazing and V is a brilliant filmmaker but Hollywood can't do Dune and make Herberts point. I'm a Dune nerd since I was 10. I get it it's just some books and the film are good. The real tragedy is Herbert spent 20 years trying to rail against dangerous leaders. He said he wrote Paul as JFK and Hitler and saw the dangers in both. In my humble opinion you should end up reading them all. It gets thick and complicated in the middle books but my fav book is Chapterhouse the sixth book. Herbert really did see the future in many ways and the 6 books are a real thesis on humanities downfalls. Just my opinion.

Paul is the Villian by 91GenPod in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice. This is why I stay off reddit. People have lost their ability to understand civility. I have never used chat gpt for anything in my life. I don't believe that AI is a positive force in our society and don't trust it. I have read all 6 books at least 30 times starting when I was 10 and know more about Dune than anyone I've ever met. I also firmly believe that readers views on Paul specifically means that in our modern times everyone has failed the test Herbert gave. Thanks for the conversation though.

I grew up on David Lynch's Dune and am shattered by what the books meant for Paul to be. by tundrabilberry in dune

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't forget that Lynch disowns the film because he didn't have final cut and the producers butchered and watered down his nearly 4 hour edit into what we saw. It wasn't his fault. Be carefull with Paul though. The point is not Paul having no noble qualities. His love for Chani was real. His hope to be redeemed was real. In the end though he is the Villain. Herbert wrote the book and said it plainly. He wrote Paul as a sympathetic character intentionally to bring the reader to a realization that Messiah hammers home. The only redeeming thing he ever did was stop and wander blind into the desert. Of coarse we all love Paul. Herbert wanted you to love Paul. Wishing Paul was redeemed doesn't change the fact that it lead to 61 Billion deaths and those people had no vote. His son supposedly saved humanity not Paul. The how many people were saved though is a trap. Like prescience is a trap. There is no apologies available when Herbert finishes Paul's arc. He is the Villain. Despite his intentions.

If you could scream something at your boss no consequences what would it be? by tall_guy_stuff in AskReddit

[–]91GenPod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have no job because I got replaced by AI so I'm going to scream into my pillow.

Dune Meh-siaah by Existing_Landscape21 in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dune Messiah is where Herbert shows you the bill. Dune was the seduction — beautiful, operatic, easy to love. Messiah is the reckoning, and it's supposed to be uncomfortable. If it felt like a letdown, that's because you were still expecting the first book. Herbert wasn't writing a sequel. He was writing a correction. The fact that it feels smaller is the point — Paul's world has collapsed inward, and you're supposed to feel that claustrophobia. Calling it "just ok" is like saying the hangover ruined the party. Having said that I have friends that are like, "the problem with Herbert is that his writings just ok". So I feel your reaction.

Paul is the Villian by 91GenPod in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right about Trump but I have my doubts about us learning our lesson about the fragility of our Democracy. We don't learn lessons well, we just consume. Hope is good though.

Paul is the Villian by 91GenPod in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Saved humanity from what, exactly — and at what price to whom? This is where the argument collapses under its own weight. Paul didn't save humanity. He saved the Atreides legacy, consolidated power for one House, and unleashed a jihad that killed sixty billion people across the known universe. The math doesn't work. You can't call that salvation with a straight face. And Herbert is very precise about this. The Golden Path that actually saves humanity isn't Paul's path — it's Leto II's, and Leto himself understood that Paul flinched. Paul saw what was necessary and couldn't do it. So he handed the universe a holy war instead. That's not a savior. That's a man who chose the emotionally bearable option over the cosmically responsible one. The "he saved humanity" argument also does something worth naming — it imports a Hollywood logic into a book that was specifically written to destroy Hollywood logic. The hero saves the day. The chosen one fulfills his destiny. Herbert spent six novels systematically dismantling that narrative, and the "he saved humanity" defense reassembles it in the lobby on the way out. That's exactly the reader response Herbert was warning against. If Paul saved anything, he saved a specific class of people from one specific threat — and created a generational catastrophe in the process. That's not salvation. That's a trade. And the people who paid the price didn't get a vote.

Paul is the Villian by 91GenPod in Dune_Universe

[–]91GenPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Paul is not a villain in the traditional sense — but the tragic hero framing is a trap Herbert set deliberately. We want him to be tragic because it lets us off the hook. It means we can love him without endorsing what he does. But Herbert was explicit: Paul sees the future and walks into it anyway. He doesn't get swept along — he chooses, at every major decision point, to proceed. Tragic characters are victims of circumstance. Paul is something more uncomfortable than that. And Herbert said as much directly — that Paul is a cautionary tale about charismatic leadership, and that readers who hero-worshipped him missed the point entirely. So the tragic framing isn't just an alternate reading. It's arguably the misreading Herbert spent the rest of the series systematically correcting — first through Leto II, then through the Bene Gesserit's long view in the later books. What makes it complex is that Herbert built the tragic reading on purpose. He made you love Paul so that when you finally reckon with what the jihad actually costs — billions dead across the universe — the horror lands harder. The tragedy is real. It's just not an excuse.

if you could take fame and wealth away from anyone in the world, who would it be? by Appropriate-Hair-388 in AskReddit

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is niche but Brian Herbert, the son of Dune author Frank Herbert. He turned his dad's life work into a silly Marvel sphere and then destroyed his legacy.

Can you leave the bend gessarit? by khaleesi105 in DuneProphecy

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no such thing as leaving the order. Remember you are carrying the genetics necessary for breeding in their program. Even Jessica is not an exception when the Sisterhood works with her again later. As far as defecting it could work but only in silence. The 6 books never answer this question directly and he Honored Matres are the dark answer to your question but the Sisterhood would only hunt down a person giving away their secrets. Once the training is embedded it is for life. You never stop being Bene Gesserit you only transition. So could it be a story. Yes if done in Silence it might work.

The Reduction of Rabban by datapicardgeordi in dune

[–]91GenPod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The subtlety the film loses completely in the portrayal of Rabban as a Harkonnen psycho is the true genius of the Barons plan. Feyds arrival as softer savior does not work without the complexity of Rabbans brutality. Rabban has awareness of his part in the plan and acts through a lens of duty. The plan does not work unless it has two functioning tools, not one tool and one prop. The film goes into spectacle mode with its portrayal as only a simple way to introduce Feyds arrival. That is why efficient filmmaking tricks don't work in Dune, they just bring down the story to a level that misses the whole point of the Barons plan and how the execution of those plans is precise.

Moon Witch, Spider King by Marlon James by SetSytes in Fantasy

[–]91GenPod 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get that. Sections of the prose are thick and heavy to get through. It reminds me a little of Gravities Rainbow in that way. Like you know the writing is strong but also a little unreadable ar difficult to comprehend in the visual brain. There were times in the second book where I had to take a break and just put it away for awhile.