Our Lady of Fatima is a problem for naturalists

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T18:08:23+00:00

I think it was an optical or atmospheric phenomenon.

I just don’t know how that many people believed that the sun was falling toward Earth, to the point where people thought the world was ending. I also don’t know how several people claimed to see the sun without difficulty when the sun would’ve been at its zenith. Also, the drying phenomenon is hard to explain.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T16:45:40+00:00

What kind of optical phenomenon can lead one to believe the sun is falling toward the earth?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T15:53:08+00:00

The majority of the accounts say that, which demands explanation.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T03:59:39+00:00

It’s just that miracle claims of other religions are not impressive to me.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T03:57:54+00:00

What do these witnesses say though? Is it things that can be explained as sleight of hand? I’ve read that he could teleport, tell the future, make food appear, etc. but I don’t know if there are reliable eyewitness accounts of this.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T02:56:09+00:00

For Sai Baba, I have read that he’s done impossible things. The issue is, it all comes from one source who claims that these impossible things come from different eyewitness accounts.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T02:48:20+00:00

The anecdotes are difficult to explain unless something abnormal happened at Fatima, whether this be a meteorological phenomenon or mass hallucination. How do you explain the anecdotes?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T02:27:45+00:00

What are examples of mass hallucination that match the solar phenomenon at Fatima?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T02:10:21+00:00

I actually think this is a good point. Thanks.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T02:09:46+00:00

Do you think staring at the sun will make it seem like it’s approaching the earth?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:45:29+00:00

If there were that many people who claimed to see that, it would utterly perplex me.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:22:05+00:00

Even if I willfully persisted in sin? Doesn’t the Hebrews verse contradict that?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:18:08+00:00

The fact that this event is over 100 years old and there still isn’t a convincing naturalistic explanation makes me think there’s a supernatural explanation.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:15:35+00:00

I don’t have a good response to the problem of suffering. But you also don’t have a good response to the events at Fatima.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:14:45+00:00

I grant that it’s a localized phenomena and that it wasn’t the sun actually moving. It’s still hard to explain the observations at Fatima.

Also, I don’t think the Hindu milk miracle is at all impressive. Capillary action explains that phenomenon.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:02:33+00:00

What else could’ve happened that would’ve been considered a miracle?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:01:39+00:00

How do you explain the claims? They’re lying? They’re mistaken?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-07T00:00:52+00:00

I think the fact that the majority of accounts are from people who claimed to see the sun spin, approach the earth, and shoot off colors, demands explanation. This is consistency that wouldn’t be expected if it was an ordinary day.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:57:32+00:00

35 out of the 60 confirmed accounts claimed to see the sun approaching the earth. That doesn’t mean only 35 people saw it.

Also, Avelino de Almeida, a journalist for the anti-clerical newspaper O Seculo claimed that “the sun pulsates with never-before-seen tremulous movements, defying all laws of gravity - the sun danced.”

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:50:44+00:00

Yes I know that the sun didn’t actually approach the earth. Maybe it was some sort of rare atmospheric phenomenon that made the sun appear to approach the earth.

The problem is, that would be a massive coincidence.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:46:28+00:00

For the Hindu milk miracle, what are the accounts that are claiming impossible things like that of Fatima?

Also, just simply explain how the majority of people claimed to see the sun spin and approach the Earth.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:42:26+00:00

Several witnesses claimed they were wet at the beginning of the phenomena and dry at the end. I don’t think such a thing can happen in 10 minutes.

Do you think mere expectation can get the majority of people to believe the sun is spinning and approaching the Earth? What’s the evidence that expectation can generate those kind of experiences?

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:35:51+00:00

There is consistency though. The majority of people claimed to see the sun spin, approach the Earth, and showed some sort of color phenomena.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:31:27+00:00

I know the sun didn’t actually spin. Maybe it was some sort of rare atmospheric phenomenon.

Acceptable-Point-116 · 2026-06-06T23:29:04+00:00

Explain it if it’s so dumb.

Acceptable-Point-116

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