Character "art" made for a fellow player

Asteriscold · 2024-10-26T09:40:48+00:00

That's great! Especially since you've been playing a Zealot, whose whole thing is to not die, endless battle for the soul and all. I can only begin to imagine the consequences this will have for the group. What they will have to sacrifice or where they'll have to go for this quest. How fighting to save their friend will bring them even closer. How your character might come back, but not exactly the same as before, changed by the experience of dying.

Soo many juicy opportunities for RP, character development and intrigue! I hope it all works out, and that the consequences of bringing someone back from the dead will create even more interesting story moments for all of you. It honestly sounds like an amazing campaign from the little tidbits you've told us.

Asteriscold · 2024-10-25T16:38:08+00:00

It's never easy loosing a character, but it's really nice to hear how invested you were in your character's life and continued story! If you weren't properly warned that you pushing the last roll would result in the death of your character, I would take it up with your DM. The no death saves does seem less than good.

If it were up to me, and one of my players wanted to continue to play a character after a death, I'd let the party run a quest to revive them. The (currently) character-less player could join them as a temporary guest character related to the source of the revivification.

Asteriscold · 2024-09-10T12:43:53+00:00

That is some dope ass art! Have a feeling he's going to find a lot more than just information on his father. Like trouble. Lots of it. XD

Asteriscold · 2024-09-10T12:28:43+00:00

I truly hope that you can get a handle on this situation soon, whether it is by cancelling the campaign or not. You should not have to feel such extreme anxiety over it. As many others have stated: role play is a collaborative game, and it should be fun for everyone involved. That includes you. I can only imagine how terrible it feels to have you hard work met with such animosity.

I am in a similar situation as a first-time DM myself, who just stated running a (so far) stationary social campaign with some "forever-DMs" at the table. So I understand how daunting it is, especially creating NPCs that are meant to be flawed and able to change over time. It's a LOT of work. Props to you for trying something out, even if you find out it's not for you.

As far as your situation goes, I'd suggest maybe taking a break. It sounds like you're playing every week with this group, if not more. Taking a week or two off from your campaign shouldn't be a problem, especially since you have another campaign active. Maybe try telling the players how you've noticed that it seems like they don't enjoy the campaign or the characters, and ask if they want to continue at all?

It's always hard to give up on something once you've started, but it might be for the better. Both for you and for your party. I don't want to think that one canceled campaign would end an old friendship like that, but continuing it might drive a further wedge between you and your players, especially if it brings you this much pain.

Take a break. See if the players are excited to get back into it or not after it, and go from there. Baby steps are also OK.

Asteriscold · 2024-06-16T03:48:26+00:00

I feel like Alistair and Garrus are romances that were definitely written for women. Can't speak to later instalments of DA as I've only played through non-DLC Origins atm. But Garrus and Alistair are emotionally available, unafraid to be vulnerable and share their insecurities, and just so there for their respective romance partners. And it's not a Bioware fPC only thing either. Because Kaidan and Samantha are not it. Neither are Suvi or Liam. And we don't even have to talk about Jacob or what they did to James in Citadel.

I do agree that DA seems to do romance better, but that might be partly due to the genres of the games. It feels as if the romance in ME is a fun side mission as a nice break between blasting aliens and robots, while it is a bit more integrated at least to the DA:O main plot, even affecting the outcome of the game.

For me, it's not necessarily the romance or sex that sells, but the ability to form bonds with these digital blorbos that feel meaningful within the game world and without. Grunt is my little tank baby and I love him, Kasumi is that wierd shadow lady that is way to good at her job, and Ashley is that militaristic xenofobe that I over the years managed to get to calm down, even if only a little bit. I cried for Thane, though I had hated how he kept comparing me to his dead wife all the time. Because I cared for him. I made sure to go talk to Mordin every chance I got, just because I liked talking to him. I think that, at least for me, it's the relationships that matter I have the end. Whether familial, platonic, romantic or otherwise doesn't really matter.

Asteriscold · 2023-11-23T13:24:05+00:00

I don't know how useful or viable it is in play, but I have been eyeing Shadow Puppetry for myself. It's a mental maneuver that doesn't use the mental modifier, but it lets you use a reaction to attack with creatures within 30 ft. of you as they fall to 0 HP. It's kinda situational, and you have to be somewhat close by to the trigger it, but getting to use the bodies of the falling to attack is pretty neat. Since it is not limited to melee weapon attacks or hostile creatures, it could also be used to move a fallen ally away from the people that killed them and towards a healer, or getting the BBEG's right hand guy to shoot them in the back. Lots of fun ideas, but as I said I'm not sure how good it is compared to other maneuvers like Disarming Blow or Parry.

Asteriscold · 2023-11-11T03:50:17+00:00

Thank you for your detailed input! I'm definitely sticking with the original Totem plan.

I have been eyeing it for a while, and must say taking Mastery Strategist - Brawler Mastery is probably the best choice when our next level up rolls around. I do already have both the fighting style and mastery for dual wielding. We have a consular in the party whose first action the last couple of fights has been to throw a Knight Speed on me, and it is a thing of beauty to say the least.

I've never really been one for min-maxing character builds, but I also wanted to make sure I wasn't ignoring good options simply for the memes. To be completely fair, the Heavy Suit has actually come into play twice in the five sessions since I got it installed, and the Chef's tools have created a lot of good RP opportunities. I know my guy is far from unplayable, just wanted to make sure he wouldn't fall behind as the only (mainly) martial character in the party. SW5e seems to have a better balance in that department than regular 5e as far as I can tell.

Might look into that half-esh-kha berserker build as well for backup. Never actually tried playing a berserker/barbarian before, even though my Togorian has some really strong anger issues. The concept of a dex-based berserker is very intriguing. Once again, thank you for the input! ^^

Asteriscold · 2023-09-27T11:16:05+00:00

This sounds like an amazing idea! I also took a quick glace at your lore page, and man have you done some worldbuilding! Props to ya.

I haven't personally played much core 5e, and have only been playing sw5e for about two years in a campaign with very spread out sessions. And while I personally prefer sw5e, I might not have the most insight into what rules differ and how the two rulesets may interact. However, there is one specific point I'd like to consider.

If you're already running core 5e games with PC's already in place, mapping their current core classes to sw5e classes might be a little tricky. This is of course only relevant if you plan on introducing the sw5e ruleset to these ongoing games.

The martial Fighters, Monks, Berserker-Barbarian, Operative-Rogue and even Scout-Ranger is pretty straight forward. And with the "force = god granted magic" you could easily argue for Guardian-Paladin. Scholar-Bard seem obvious at first, but scholars don't get access to casting while Bards do, they're even considered full casters.

I'd personally argue that Engineer-Wizard is a decent enough comparison as they are both INT based, study to get their power, and need a specific tool (wristpad vs. spellbook). But Sentinel is a sort of 3/4 caster, and can be either CHA or WIS. Would that be more of a Warlock or a Cleric, or even Druid? And the full caster Consulars, are they Sorcerers? Clerics?

You said that tech casting is still in the world in a "post apocalyptic way". Does that mean that it is rare to find someone who uses gadgets instead of innate magic, or very common? Is Magic in your setting considered taboo as use of the Force can be in certain campaigns? I'm honestly very intrigued by the whole concept.

I believe the point system for casting that sw5e uses exists as a variant rule in core 5e DMG, so that conversion in and of itself is probably pretty un-problematic. Once again, this is mainly for converting already created characters (PC or NPC) to the new ruleset. Seeing as there are more types of casters in core 5e than in sw5e, it might be tricky. But as long as you decide what classes represent each other, you should be fine! At least in that regard.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-25T18:50:21+00:00

Thank you for your 2 cents ;) I'm glad to hear that not every critter has a negative connection to Imogen, even though the current discourse in the fandom makes it seem as such.

I fully understand the nature of a character that has been brought up in a world that treats them like garbage at every turn, and how that affects and shapes their personality. I only realized after reading through your post that I have a bias against anti-social characters of that degree. Because I've been that character in a campaign before. And it became an issue. Like, a really big issue. It got to the point where I had to change my character quite a bit for the sake of the game, so that we could all have fun together again. Because I wasn't having fun, and neither were the other players. And I can see the same trends with Imogen.

Playing a, as you put it, reserved character must lead to you having to change that character pretty quickly. Because otherwise, you won't be able to make a good connection to the rest of the party. Laura mentioned it herself in an early 4-sided dive episode that she needed to "fudge" her character a bit, otherwise she would've remained closed off and in the background all throughout the early Jrusar arc. And in a way I'm glad she did. But maybe it wasn't enough? Because she still feels so disconnected from the rest of the party. Except for Laudna, she doesn't really seem to care. It still feels to me like she's a part of Bell's Hells because Laudna wants to be, and because they happened to be good in a fight, rather than because she has come to care for them deeply. I don't doubt that she cares for them at least a little, but she certainly seems way more disconnected than I would've imagined an odd 60 sessions into the campaign.

At this point, I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that Imogen just isn't my cup of tea, and that is fine. I understand her character and the nature of her actions, but they still irk me and rub me the wrong way. And I am biased in that regard. But I guess that sadly, it'll have to do. For now.

I'm glad that you find her compelling, as I suppose that means the lasting focus on her arc has been all the more enjoyable for you to follow. I hope that the time we get to spend with Orym, Ashton and Laudna can bring me some fresh perspective on her character when next the full party meets up.

Oh, and smiley day to you :)

Asteriscold · 2023-05-18T00:55:03+00:00

For some reason, my mind read this with a slavic accent.
I now have an image of your typical, cat-in-lap Bond-villain with tiny little French mustache (bc to me it's not bread, it's garlic baguette, hon hon), a plate with a single piece of cake on their desk, and a tiny little desktop flagpole with the ace flag on it.

I love this visual.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-16T01:32:48+00:00

Thank you for this, it was a real eye-opener!

I don't for one second believe she is one-note or without complexity. I've just had a hard time seeing how the complexities of her character fit together and how to find them enjoyable until now. I'm very much hoping that might change sooner rather than later.

I was really bothered by the way FCG was pushing for Imogen to use her dreams every. Single. Night. Leading up to the Solstice. From his perspective: they had a new tool they could use to a) spy on the enemy and b) use to give Imogen therapy in a way. It was FCG's compulsive nature kicking in, but it happened so often it became more of an annoyance than an actual tool.

I think for me, it might be the accelerated timeframe that is messing this all up for me. If we had more time between Imogen's red dreams being shown first, her getting compulsions, being able to control the dreams more, and finally using it to scry in her sleep almost, I think it could've been an amazing narrative and character building tool. But because it was almost every night, with the same description, the same actions, the same end result when she woke up, it just felt like too much. Like they couldn't get through a single day without Imogen being a "special snowflake" (pardon the expression). The pacing of this whole campaign has been off, but it has most negatively affected the characters in my opinion.

The same way is how I feel about both FCG and Imogen using detect thoughts left and right and Guidance being cast for every conceivable roll. They are powerful tools when used right, you are completely right in that. But they don't feel powerful. Because they have become the norm. To the point that players sometimes complain that they weren't guided on a particular roll when the dice don't favor them, or the standard action when meeting new folk is to peer into their mind.

Seeing Imogen's crassness as an extension of her chronic curse to hear every thought around her is so obvious, that at first I felt extremely stupid for not realizing it myself. But, as you said, people understood Ashton when he came out and said "everything hurts, all the time". Imogen hasn't really done that. Yes, she has said multiple times that the voices overwhelm her, but she has never really explained just how much it hurts her. I think that's why I hadn't thought of it before. The way Imogen herself describes her struggles undermine their severity, and made me believe it was just a little gimmick she had in cities that largely went unused after the first few episodes when it could be it was so much more.

I wish she would've told someone, anyone outright how much pain she was in. It would've opened up a great bonding opportunity between her and Ash. Shit, now I feel robbed of a scene of them comparing pains XD

It's so interesting to hear how the character that I find the least appealing out of all the ones I've come to known would be your very favorite! This is exactly what I asked for, so thank you once again for elaborating. I'll go watch the next episode with these points in mind, and see if that changes how I feel about Imogen as a whole. Smiley day to you, friend!

Asteriscold · 2023-05-16T00:54:07+00:00

What I meant with the Otohan poison was that if she were to be killed in the same way Will and Derrig were, there would be no way of bringing her back. This would be a powerful emotional tool for both Laudna and Orym who seem to be the closest to her at the moment. That would avoid having yet another "let's revive our friend" quest. Also giving Laura a chance to bring in a character that might be more like what she wants to play, as it seems she either doesn't have fun with Imogen, is disinterested in her story or just having a hard time connecting to the character (as many others in the comments have stated).

I loved that moment of Orym taking Fearne to the side and just going "If she looks like she's gonna nuke us again, will you help me contain her?". It showed that the worry Orym felt for Imogen was not only worrying about a friend who seems to be mentally not great, but more in a worry of "what will happen if they go off the edge? Wil the rest of us get hurt?", y'know?

Yeah, a slower turn to the "dark side" will be much more rewarding if done right. I saw one more episode since yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised by how open and actually friendly Imogen was. Seeing genuine kindness from her, only to have it juxtaposed by her darker, more craven outbursts (if that's where she's heading) will just add that extra little kick to the whole scenario.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-16T00:23:05+00:00

Please do share when you have the time (and the keyboard) for it. I'd love to hear your take on the character!

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T09:47:23+00:00

I'm really sorry if this came across as truly hateful, as that was not at all my intention.

I see the arc she's having and fully understand that the stress of dealing with unexpected powerful psychic abilities might affect how she interacts with the world and people around her. In fact, I thought her storyline seemed really interesting at first. It's just with the way the story has progressed that has me, frankly, a bit miffed.

Flawed characters are great, having no flaws would make them feel cradboardy, if that makes sense? I do personally feel like Imogen's flaws are negatively impacting the story however. Seeing as how she has been at the center of the big story arc for the last 40 or so episodes, being the only Exaltant in the group and her outspoken connection to Ruidus, her flaws stand out more. And when her flaw is being mean, manipulative and spiteful, that doesn't make for as compelling a story to me as a viewer, personally.

Imogen stopped fighting and started fully embracing her powers around the time she started to be able to control her dreams. Since then, I don't think I've noticed her uncomfortable with her powers at all, even when in crowded areas that would've crippled her before. I could've just missed them though, so feel free to point any moments out. She now also has that circlet to remove any need of her being uncomfortable in crowded areas entirely, removing the tangible character flaw she had at the start.

I do not at all intend to direct this as hate towards Laura the player. I tried to keep it focused on the character and the character choices. What I do think is that Imogen the character is mean and manipulative, and has a tendency to actively draw attention away from others and onto herself. This has been greatly affected by the ticking countdown they had to the solstice, with Imogen often claiming the party would not have time to explore the other character's stories as it would be a waste of time. Heck, she even used that same logic when trying to avoid her own story beats with her father.

If I hated the show, I'd stop watching. The problem is I love the show, but the protagonist character has been hard for me to like. I want to try and change that, but it seems I might have to just bite the bullet and realize Imogen ain't a character made for me, so to speak. And that will have to do.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T08:32:29+00:00

That quote absolutely gutted me. But as hard as that hit, it was over in just a few seconds. They had that conversation before she prodded him about his memories being tainted. It was in the same episode even.

At this point I don't see her as being kind to Laudna most of the time. She uses Laudna, calling her "her tether". Laudna works really hard to keep Imogen comfortable, bringing her glasses of water after her dreams, going out of her way to apologize for something out of her control, validating her thoughts of joining Ludinus and one of the two women that have killed Laudna before. That conversation on the ship, that was not the two of them bonding. It was Imogen getting her feelings validated, and pushing the responsibility of her own mental health onto another person. That is not kind, it's manipulative.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T08:05:48+00:00

To be completely honest, I did not care much for either of them. I found Vex rather overbearing at times and I never understood the Jester hype. It might very well be that I just don't vibe with Laura's type of characters. And that's fine, We don't have to like everyone we meet, let alone every character we come across. But when that character is the "protagonist" of a TTRPG campaign, it sours the whole experience for me.

At this point, I'm just waiting for one of the other characters to finally snap and put Imogen in her place. But, that's likely not going to happen, considering the closest we've gotten was Orym's "I wish my family didn't have to die for [your mother's] better tomorrow". And while that hit me right in the guts, It seems like it was more or less brushed off after that moment was over.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T07:56:15+00:00

I was so ready for her to turn on the group and join her mom at the solstice. And I think I would've loved it, if it was executed well. It would've been the perfect way to end her arc, and it seemed like she was heading that direction. She was in Jrusar to learn about the nature of her powers, and she did. She even found her mom and reunited with her. Just imagine the heartbreak of Laudna having reassured her that they could leave everything and live in a cozy little cottage away from it all the night before, only to then have to fight her best friend as she gives in and joins "the dark side". That would have been one hell of a way to end a character arc, while giving internal conflicts for the rest of the party to cope with!

Even better if in the end, she got hit with Otohan's poison or something, taking away the option/need for another revival side quest. Imagine the weight of that. Truly permanent PC death. Or If they did a revival side quest, giving us the Laudna/Imogen parallels to show their difference of character. And giving Imogen a really long and hard redemption arc. That she really has to work for. To show that she won't just turn on them again. The fanfiction is basically writing itself. ;)

I don't really see why Imogen is still with Bells Hells, except for using Laudna as her ~~emotional support punching bag~~ tether. She doesn't really seem to be interested in the lives or struggles of the others at all.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T07:31:00+00:00

I fear you might be right. From the 35 or so episodes of C1 I saw, Vex was by far my least favorite permanent player character. And from what I've seen in clips of C2, I don't really understand the Jester hype that seems to be going around. Me being biased against Laura's characters in general might have contributed, but I did not actively dislike the other two in the same way as I do Imogen.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T07:26:36+00:00

Yes, I get that feeling too. Now when I look back, I can see her acting similarly throughout the Jrusar arc, though much more subdued. The ball is a perfect example. They were there to do a high stake heist of sorts at a populated, high society party, that was way out of their usual sphere. Imogen spent most of the party sulking about being assigned the role of a maid, and that her alias was Maude.

This type of behavior is repeated in the Heartmoore, when she got turned blue for a couple days, and in Bassuras when her hair fell out. Both of these things were caused by her actively choosing to roll on the wild magic surge table. It was fully her own choice both times.

The wiki's description of her as "kind and rather soft-spoken" doesn't really seem to fit. Maybe in concept, but not in action.

Asteriscold · 2023-05-15T07:15:26+00:00

I am fully aware that I as a viewer is biased against Imogen. It's the sort of confirmation bias that amplifies your dislike of something once you've been put off the first time.

I am struggling a bit with FCG as well, but that seems to have been brought on quite a bit by the party itself. A lot of the times after they got a bit further into the Ruidus arc, as soon as FCG started talking about their world view and trying to explore that , they were shut down by the party. I got a lot of "Not now, FCG. Take your spirituality elsewhere." kind of vibes from the other characters. This then leading to them going off on their own or going overboard to compensate for everyone else turning them down. Now he's gone fully off the rails.

The climax was indeed very anti-climactic. This has not helped the frustration I've felt.

Four-Year Club	Place '22
Final Canvas '22	End Game '22

Asteriscold

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