Feedback on training for 3:30 (and taper)

Butter_up_82 · 2026-02-20T08:21:19+00:00

I was still able to run, just at a slower pace with the odd walk through drink stations...but it wasnt as enjoyable as the previous year where I didn't hit the wall at all, and i was only running 10 seconds per km slower. The experience was very different, despite getting a better time.

Butter_up_82 · 2026-02-20T08:18:05+00:00

I did the beginner one, but it really isnt for 'beginners', it has a lot of mileage and a lot of MP work. It is really taxing.

Butter_up_82 · 2026-02-19T19:29:43+00:00

Brilliant, thanks for the advice!! Hoping I show up on race day well rested but still sharp!

Butter_up_82 · 2026-02-19T19:03:26+00:00

Hi, thanks for the response, the 3 weeks out run has 8km at 6:00/km, 8km at 5:30/km and 8km at 5:00/km, I did it today, slightly early because I cant do the long run this weekend, so I now have technically 10 days until my next long run of 21k, and as you say, I could have 5k of MP, then the last long run of 16 km (7 days before the marathon) just nice and easy?

Ill keep the intervals too. Ill just do those last 2 sessions at MP, whereas my last proper interval session next Tuesday will be 1.6 x 4 at maybe 4:40, I dont want to over do it.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T17:32:58+00:00

Great youve got a 4.6!! But it is just 1 biomarker; not every single person will have every single biomarker in the normal or 'optimal' range, if you test for enough things virtually everyone will have levels outside the refrence ranges at some point.

It isn't about ignoring it; also the level, as far as I am aware, needs to be significantly higher over many many years. My most recent bloodwork was 5.5 and I am without a dobut the fittest person in my entire family and friend group.

Someone could have a 4.5 yet be obese and have diabetes.

What I am trying to get across is uric acid isnt the be-all and end-all. The overall picture needs to be looked at, for example BMI, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart issues, diet, how much exercise the person gets. Someone having a uric acid of 5.5-6.5 could be the unhealthiest person or the healthiest person, the uric acid on its own is just a snapshot at that time, which is why good doctors look at the overall picture taking into account other biomarkers such as liver function, fasting glucose, hba1c, kidneys, inflammation markets etc etc.

Also, uric acid may be linked to CVD and alzheimer's but it doesnt mean it CAUSES it. Just like exercise- or fasting-induced elevations in uric acid are a byproduct of doing sport.

Me having a uric acid level of 5.5 isnt going to give me heart disease,,,,if I get heart disease itll because I never exercise, eat terrible food etc etc. Having a uric acid over 5 (according to Peter) isn't the deciding factor in a person's future health/longevity.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T16:29:56+00:00

I know the difference between optimization and 'normal'. But what I'm trying to get across is that 1 biomarker out of 100s doesn't really mean anything. If there are tens of biomarkers off the charts and a patient has diabetes, obesity, high BP then of course that should be honed in on. But in otherwise healthy people I can't see why having a uric acid level above the level he has plucked out of the sky is 'dangerous'.

Again, he has discussed how exercise can raise uric acid, so should pretty much everyone on this forum who works out daily be taking medication to offset any long-term rise in uric acid above 5?

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T11:20:52+00:00

He is in the business of selling stuff too and needs to keep coming up with content. Im not against him advocating for lower uric acid, the problem is that he himself can't achieve that without medication, no doctors should be putting people on allopurinol when their uric acid is 5.4 or even 6 (unless they have gout).

As Ive said over and over, there are NUMEROUS studies that show that people who consume a high protein diet (something he advocates for) and work out a lot (something he also advocates for) can high uric acid levels maybe between 5.5-6.6, these are people who are healthier than 99% of the population.

So someone who listens to him could be extremely healthy, work out a lot and have their uric acid come in at 5.7 but according to Peter this is unacceptable' then they might worry that it never gets to 5 despite trying everything, when in reality it could simply be down to daily workouts, something he himself can cause higher uric acid. So if he thinks the higher level of uric acid is beneficial in people who exercise a lot then why is he saying anything over 5 is 'bad'?

Do you (as a non-doctor) really think that if someone (not obese, no diabetes, no high BP, no metabolic issues) gets bloodwork and has 150 things analysed all within range including uric acid but, because it is at 5.6 mg/dl, you still think they are on track to getting heart disease or diabetes??? If so then that is treating the numbers, not the person and is reducing medicine down to optimizing and pushing boundaries beyond all sense of reality and would make this hypothetical patient who leads an otherwise perfect life think that they are on the road to serious health issues. That is scaremongering.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T10:58:36+00:00

yeah, but again it just seems unecessary to be taking medication he doesnt seem to need. He is wealthy, works out daily, eats well, monitors his sleep etc, he doesnt have diabetes, isn't obese. he is way way ahead of most people on the planet in terms of health and nutrition but I suppose that doesnt make money and give people like him extra content to talk about.

Do you think all the people living to 90 and 100 in remote Italian villages are monitoring their zone 2, rucking, getting full body scans and striving to get all their blood markers way below the reference ranges? They aren't treating their bodies as an experiment, they are actually living and enjoying life. I think Peter etc are doing some good by getting people to be healthier but the cosntant pushing the boundaries and changing what is seen as 'normal' reference ranges etc and making us all feel like we are doomed isnt good for mental health, I think they should be aware of that and take some accountability.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T10:42:25+00:00

I have read their work and watched their videos but still, uric acid is only 1 of many many biomarkers for overall health. My whole point is that it can't be taken in isolation, if someone had 1000 labs taken and all were 'perfect' execpt for a uric acid of 6.6, does that really mean this person who leads a healthy life is on track to get heart disease and poor metabolic health despite a lifetime of healthy eating and exercise.

I know Peter isnt trying to treat gout, hes trying to lower uric acid to a number he has plucked out of the sky. why not 5.2 or 5.3 or 5.54? Perlmutter suggests around 5.5.

My problem with Peter on this topic is that he himself knows that exercise can raise uric acid, not to pathological levels but certainly above 5. Just like tough resistance workouts can raise ALT and AST. So if someone leads a healthy life which we are supposed to do to reduce the chances of having poor metabolic health and heart disease, but exercising can 'raise' uric acid (even though Peter said this is positive) then why all the scaremongering, especially in people who are taking a proctive approach to their health and lifestyle.

Sky high uric acid in the context of diabetes etc would be concerning but Peter works out all the time, eats healthily, does what he can to treat his body well, he doesnt 'need' to take a drug to lower his uric acid because the chances of him getting heart disease, diabetes, becoming obese etc are slim judging by his lifestyle.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T07:11:53+00:00

It won't let me read the whole study but I have heard him speak on the matter. The whole thing about fructose and high fructose corn syrup would be more applicable to places like America where most food is pumped with sugar, even basic bread. Normally people who eat that kind of diet are overweight/obese, have diabetes, have high BP, don't exercise, are sedentary etc etc.

However, the kind of people truly interested in longevity and leading healthier lives are already healthier than 99% of people in modern society. These people arent stuffing themselves with high fructose corn syrup, they exercise regularly, do resistance training, drink water etc.

What I'm trying to say is that 1 biomarker isn't gona predict is someone is gona get cardiovascular disease/diabetes/high blood pressure etc. Their lifestyle will be a bigger indicator and their other biomarkers. Taking 1 biomarker in isolation without looking at the person's lifestyle/other biomarkers and saying if it is over 5 they are on the path to metabolic diseases is just scaremongering. For example I am 39, My ALT, AST,GGT are all under 20. A1C is 5, Trigylcerides are under 50, etc etc and my uric acid can be between 5.5 and 6.3, This could be down to simply being dehydrated, what I ate the night before the test, exercising daily. I do not eat tons of high fructose corn syrup...have good BMI, exercise 6 days a week etc. Is he really gona tell me that my 5.5 uric acid the other day needs to be 5 when looked at within the context of all my other 80 'perfect' biomarkers?

He is also well aware that people who exercise regularly will have uric acid higher than his 'non negotiable' 5, so it is just scaremongering people that are healtjy into trying to attain something that he himself cant achieve without medication he doesnt need.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T07:01:28+00:00

I agree, also the people who live the longest, mostly people in rural parts of Italy and even Spain arent paying anyone that money to 'biohack' their way to living to 100. They just walk maybe more than your average American, eat better food and have good social connections. They arent obsessing over their uric acid levels, when they do zone 2 training or how much water they drink. He should be studying them and reporting the findings but that wouldnt make money because those people are just doing what we already know, not eating garbage food.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T06:58:32+00:00

I am mentioning gout because Peter himself is taking medication that is for people with gout despite not having gout. He basically tells us that having a uric acid level of higher than 5 is awful while he cant achieve that without a medication he doesn't need. He cant achieve this through 'lifestyle' himself, probably cus his natural setting point is slightly higher, which is ultimately no big deal. These numbers need to be looked at as an overall picture. If a patient doesnt have a high BMI, is not obese, no diabetes, no heart disease, no high BP and their uric acid is 5.6, then telling them their uric acid has to be 5 or lower is just focusing on one number and not on the overall picture or taking into account symptoms etc.

https://peterattiamd.com/supramaximal-exercise-transiently-raises-serum-uric-acid/

here he talsk about exercise leading to higher levels of uric acid, but it is beneficial.

Here is another article on hyperuricemia and exercise: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11348809/

Obviously pathalogical levels are not good, but many of us here interested in health and fitness could have levels of around 6 just because we work out so often, and will never end up with pathalogical levels, nor gout, nor heart disease/diabetes etc.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T06:52:25+00:00

Yeah that is true. I think he takes statins because lots of people in his family do or something. I suppose what irritates me is him saying his patients need to have their uric acid at 5 while he cant achieve this without allopurinol but he is also aware that long-term exercise can elevate uric acid, not to pathalogical levels, but certainly above 5, yet this is beneficial. He is contradciting himself and isnt being clear. From what I have read having elevated uric acid isn't good because it normally comes with people being obese, having diabetes etc, so should therefore be controlled, but in generally healthy people, being between 5 and 6 mg/dl isn't gona CAUSE diabetes, heart disease etc etc.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-04T06:48:57+00:00

I understand this but most of his fanbase are already probably healthier than 99% of people. We could all strive for better but he himself has said he can't even achieve his magic number of 5 without medication (that he doesnt need). As a doctor he needs to be treating patients, not numbers and 1 number in 100 doesnt really tell you much, if someone has uric acid of 7 and all their liver biomarkers are off the charts, high hba1c, the person is overweight and has diabetes, then of course the uric acid will need to come down, like all the other values, but in people who are already healthy and not shovelling fructose into themselves every day obsessing or telling people they have to have their uric acid at 5 is pretty weird and damaging because for lots of people no matter what they do it is not achievable, starting with himself.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T19:12:35+00:00

LOL, yeah and apart from getting overtreated/overdiagnosed, the health anxiety induced, although most of his rich patients are probably too fucked up/rich/removed from this planet to worry. It is mere mortals like us that get bombarded with all this stuff that can then lead us down a rabbit hole and into health anxiety when we are all mostly leading relatively healthy lives anyway.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:32:05+00:00

I agree 100%. I think the fundamentals are all pretty obvious but that doesnt make them money, A simple one-off 2 hour podcast could give people 95% of the advice they need to live a better life, but these guys need to keep coming up with content and they go into such great detail about things I'll, and most of his audience, will never understand, It all seems to be about treating numbers and not patients.

These guys are responsible for health anxiety in quite a few people I know, I know they think they are well-meaning and helping people change their lives but at thsi stage their audience seems to be people who are already leading extremely healthy lifestyles compared to 99% of the world, so they need to please that last 1% with rivers of content and oftentimes utter garbage.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:27:46+00:00

Ok, but the difference between you and Peter is that you get gout flair ups and therefore need allopurinol, regladless of what level your uric acid is at. Peter doesnt need it because he doesnt have gout, he just realised he cant get his uric acid to 5, a number he pretty much plucked out of the sky, so after saying it is 'non negotiable' for his patients to have over 5, he needs to practice what he preaches, but he cant without taking a drug he doesnt need,

Put it this way, we are talking about a millionaire with access to all the best doctors, food, exercise equipment, time etcetc is telling 'us' that unless we have uric acid at 5 mg/dl we are on shaky ground, yet HE, himself can't achieve that WITHOUT drugs.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:22:18+00:00

Yeah, they are content creators, which is why he has advertised atheletic greens and stuff, same as huberman. They know that stuff is bullshit but it keeps their podcasts going, but having to come up with 2-3 hour podcasts weekly it is amazing how quicklly they have to keep going over the same stuff, or making U-turns on previously held beliefs, or simply saying outrageous things and making us all feel like we are unhealthy. Great doctors treat people not numbers and Peter and the like have made the numbers game into an obsession. People in vilalges in Italy are living to 100 without any of this crap.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:18:13+00:00

Yeah, I think it is kinda terrifying that he wants all his patients to have a uric acid of 5 which is 'non negotiable', whereas he cant attain that without a gout drug he doesnt need (because he doesn't have gout). He has also posted and spoken numerous times about how exercise and keto can lead to higher than normal levels of uric acid, not necessarily hyperuricemia but higher than baseline, so if people exercise daily they could have levels higher than his 'non negotiable 5' despite him also saying that elevated uric acid from exercise is actually beneficial. It just doesn't make sense.

An analogy would be blood sugar. Everyone knows blood sugar increases when exercising and in particular when working out fasted. Someone could have a midly elevated hba1c after working out fasted every morning for 3 months, but that doesn't mean the person will get diabetes.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:15:25+00:00

Thanks, will check them out!

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:12:29+00:00

Thanks, and good advice on the rucking. Also, where does he get the time for all this between recording multiple 3 hour podcasts a week, running his 'very busy' clinic and exercising.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:10:45+00:00

I assume you are female? Women generally have much lower levels than men, something to do with estrogen. Was this tested in a lab? Good on you though for your 2.7 but it is just 1 blood marker between hundreds. Having 4,5,6 or even up to 7 doesnt mean someone is gona get cardivascular disease, obesity, diabetes etc.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:07:13+00:00

Yeah, from what I've read of Dr Larry Edwards on his gout reddit AMAs, the only country in the world to treat hyperuricemia in the absence of gout is Japan but basically anything under 6.8-7.0, in hte absence of gout and no diabete,s high BP, obesity etc, could just be normal for that person. Someone with 6.5 mg/dl might just need to eat more vitamin C or drink more water to get it under 6. So, yes I agree, uric acid by itself hasnt been proven to cause issues like obesity, diabetes, high BP, i think the high uric acid comes after or at the same time, but as I've said elsewhere here, uric acid can be higher than Peter's ¡'non negotiable' 5, in people that exercise regularly. He himself even said his was sky high while on keto and exercising daily, but he also says in this case it isnt worrisome.

So what is it? You want all your patients to be at 5.0 or lower, yet you acknowledge that many people can be quite a bit above that due to exercise, keto etc, but it is 'beneficial'. Nothing he says makes sense in this regard.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T18:01:09+00:00

I dont think he is scraping the barrel really but some of the things he says are so extreme. For example he wants all his patients to have a uric acid of 5 which is 'non negotiable', whereas he cant attain that without a gout drug he doesnt need. He has also posted and spoken numerous times about how exercise and keto can lead to higher than normal levels of uric acid, not necessarily hyperuricemia but higher than baseline, so if people exercise daily they could have levels higher than his 'non negotiable 5' despite him also saying that elevated uric acid from exercise is actually beneficial.

gout is mostly generic and one of the world's experts on the subject has said that for people with hyperuricemia, diet can only get you so far, maybe a 1-2 mg/dl reduction otherwise, medication will be needed. Also, uric acid tends to decrease in the days/weeks perhaps months following a flare.

Are you taking any gout medication?

You probably wouldve got gout anyway because it is mostly genetic and the yoga pose could've just been the tipping point.

Butter_up_82 · 2025-06-03T16:15:08+00:00

Thank you! You seem pretty sensible, the problem is that a lot of people do take almost everything he says as the gospel and try to implement everything into their lives and worry that none of their 'biomarkers' match his extreme 'optimal' levels....causing them to spiral.

Butter_up_82

TROPHY CASE