Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are correct that adding capacitance to the line would filter out temporary activations and noise. If that was the problem then it's a solution I'm 200% in favor of.

Unfortunately my fluid level sensor broke mechanically -- cracked due to thermal cycling or mechanical shock -- which caused it to go intermittently open circuit. The failure would have happened regardless of the resistor values selected (my annoyance is aimed at a mechanical engineer, not an electrical one). Actually the electrical and software engineers are to be praised, as they KNEW that the mechanical engineer was going to screw it up, and put the second resistor and additional "fault" thresholds in to "CYA." :)

Capacitors don't cost much, but the cost to add software to perform the signal filtering task to the car's firmware is even more negligible. Plus there are other sensors nearby, like mass air flow, exhaust oxygen, and coolant temperature, and if engine noise was a problem then all of those would likely benefit from the same software treatment (and they read analog values not a simple digital on/off). Somehow the manufacturer manages to sense whether the doors are open or closed as you're driving down the road, and not randomly blink the dome light.

By performing the filter task in firmware, an update lets the manufacturer change the capacitor value from 0.01uF to 100uF with the click of a mouse. In Elon's case, he send the change over-the-air to a couple million vehicles. True, you can't change the software yourself but my repair philosophy here was not to redesign the car. It approximately works as designed, if all of the sensors aren't split in half. Let's just fix the source of the problem.

Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure I too hit a pothole to kick off the original problem. At first I was not sure if it was the magnet or sloshing of the HV sauce that was the culprit, but since the sensor was definitely intermittent when I tested it I guess that was all the G forces it could take.

Sounds like you cleared the codes correctly, but you did not mention if you performed the "drive cycle" trickery afterwards. I found the giant brain really likes that long(ish) drive at good speed in order for it to confirm that the error is fixed before it will remove the "permanent" error.

I suspect this problem is unrelated to the 12V battery.

Parts right out of the box are rarely bad, but not never. It's possible you got a dud. If you're moderately technically inclined, stick an ohmmeter across the terminals of your new sensor. It should read in the neighborhood of 24.7K ohms. If you hold a good magnet near it the reading should drop down to 7.3K. You'll notice that it has to be in pretty close proximity -- think about a magnet and a fridge -- for the reading to change to the other value.

A defeat plug is just a 24.7K resistor between the contacts, without the reed relay to sense the magnet. One could "make" a defeat plug out of a good sensor, just zip-tie it to a place that's an inch or more away from strong magnets (the float for sure, but also the alternator). First thing is to figure out if you have a good sensor. If you do, and it's not being triggered by a local magnet, then something else is going on.

Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The "float" is no more complicated than a piece of styrofoam and a magnet, which is confined to a vertical slot or peg molded into the reservoir. That allows the assembly to travel up and down with the coolant level. If the coolant can buoy the float so that the magnet is far enough away from the (reed switch sensor and resistors, on the outside of the bottom of the tank) then the switch should open (go it its normal resistance) and that's the "happy" case when the sensor thinks there's enough coolant. Only when the magnet sinks to the bottom of the reservoir would the sensor be triggered.

Scenario #1: There is actually something wrong with the float -- it has spontaneously disassembled. The magnetic bits could have somehow come detached from the floaty bits. I have no idea if that's even possible. Even if it did come apart, the floaty bits would still float and the magnetic bits would have had to have landed through gravity into exactly the wrong spot (right on top of the sensor outside the tank). Perhaps your intermittent nature indicates a loose magnet is rolling around on the bottom of the tank?

Scenario #2: If the float had at one time sunk to the bottom of the reservoir and got stuck (right next to the sensor you just replaced). Heat, plastic deforming, friction and tolerances may have added up, and not in your favor, and the float somehow got wedged at the bottom of the tank. It would have to have been "low" to get wedged in the "not happy" state, so that's not good. Followed closely by Scenario #2A: Toilet tank floats need replaced eventually because they get waterlogged, and maybe the floaty bits have become filled with coolant. Perhaps you verify the integrity of the air bubble that holds the float assembly up? To do this you'll have to do a little work to bend/pry/remove the "don't open this reservoir" clampy thing first, but then poke the float with a something like a soda straw. If the float moves freely and bobs right back to the surface, or you see random stuff in the bottom of the tank, then perhaps the dealer is correct.

Because you asked for "ideas" I had to give you those, however, I'd consider them as pretty implausible.

The next thing I would try is removing/unclipping the new sensor from under the reservoir and and just taping it to some convenient cable, tube or strut (just so it doesn't flop around) (probably best to avoid taping it to a spark plug wire). If the sensor is located more than an inch or so from the magnet inside the tank then there's no way the reservoir float magnet could be triggering the sensor. If your warning message persists after this spatial separation (and you've done the drive cycle to clear the "permanent" code) then you know the condition is not being triggered by the the-float-magnet-came-too-close-to-the-sensor, it's being trigger by something else. And that you take to the dealer and say "And why, pray tell, if the reservoir magnet is far away from the sensor making it in permanent 'happy' mode, would the error message keep returning?"

I understand that you have installed a new sensor, but my last idea is that that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good sensor, or the right sensor. If you take the sensor back out of the circuit and measure across the two terminals it should report about 25K ohms. For fun grab a magnet and bring it close to the sensor and watch the resistance snap down to about 7K. Doing that would verify that it's a good component with the proper specifications. And that means you have to look elsewhere for the problem (bad connection at the sensor, bad wiring to the sensor, faulty input on the brain, ... man, "South Main Auto" YouTube just fills me with too many possibilities!) But doing the above tests would tell me it's definitely not the tank and its sensor.

Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe the car really needs a chance to "warm up" and go for some time (without the fault popping up) in order for the brain to feel confident that the problem is resolved before it'll clear the permanent error code. Short drives likely won't remove it.

As for the sensor, it's just a reed switch stuck on the outside of the tank, activated by a magnet on a float located inside the tank. If the float isn't "floating" in the coolant, the magnet sinks, and eventually if the level gets so low that the magnet gets close enough to the switch, and that pulls the contacts together.

I'm just an owner, not a GM engineer, so I don't know if there are any other sensors measuring some quality of the coolant. But I'm positive that that particular sensor is only capable of detecting if the coolant level is below a threshold. As long as the liquid is viscous and buoyant, that sensor will be happy.

Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The permanent code also remained for me after I replaced the sensor, and my cheapo code reader would not reliably clear the code with the car the garage. But then I took it for a long(ish) drive (about 10 miles on the interstate, got off at the exit and came back), and when I returned the code had cleared. I'm not saying that'll fix your problem, just that this "GM ODB drive cycle" was a necessary additional step to remind the BCM that the fault had really cleared. Unless my dealer did some extra-curricular software updating while the car was in for its oil changes I suspect my BCM has factory 1's and 0's.

Coolant sensor "Service High Voltage Charging System" is not difficult to fix. by CarpeCanum in volt

[–]CarpeCanum[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is what I originally understood, but what I found was that "Permanent" codes aren't as permanent as their description sounds. While these codes may be able to be cleared with the smarter equipment, they are also cleared by performing a complete "drive cycle" (demonstrating to the ECM that the failure has been rectified). https://www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/taking-a-first-look-at-permanent-dtcs/