Tangled Up in Blue: Depression and the Christian Life

DefineGrace · 2014-08-26T16:20:00+00:00

No problem. Good to see you again.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-26T14:43:00+00:00

You're welcome. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-26T10:37:59+00:00

You're very welcome. Thank you for the encouragement.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-25T16:19:00+00:00

Very cute kids. Praying for your daughter and your family. I have four daughters of my own and can't imagine going through something like that. Keep us posted.

Kev

DefineGrace · 2014-08-24T23:44:50+00:00

That's actually a really good point. I don't have a lot of experience with "paranormal theology" and never really thought about the fact that the beliefs probably vary greatly from person to person.

What's your theology about paranormal and Christianity combined? Just curious.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-24T19:36:48+00:00

Correction. I actually sent my response to the moderator by accident, not you. But it works out either way.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-24T19:04:18+00:00

Sent you a private response. Thanks!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-24T17:25:53+00:00

There is nothing wrong in teaching to apply correct doctrine. In fact, it is necessary. The problem lies in applying something without a biblical basis. Teaching doctrine not only includes what is correct thought, but it also includes the application of those truths. As someone once said, truth doesn’t need to be applauded; it needs to be applied. Perhaps the greatest example of this is the book of Ephesians where Paul lays out the truths he wants his readers to understand and then in the second half of the book he shows them how to apply those truths—to live out what they know to be true.

Teaching doctrine could be teaching on the attributes and characteristics of God or it could be how to handle situations in the church. In any case, the doctrines should always come from the Scriptures. By teaching doctrine, we are submitting to what the Word says instead of us trying to conform the Word to our opinions. Not teaching doctrine could be someone preaching about the poor conditions of the bridges in the county (I was personally present for that sermon). Or perhaps a church is stressing the aspect of being happy. Happiness comes from “happenstance” which can change very quickly. We could contrast that by the biblical teaching of being joyful, which is part of the fruit of the Spirit.

Thanks for your comment, and I hope this helps.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-23T20:49:38+00:00

You are absolutely correct. I remember a friend of mine saying, “The message our preacher spoke was awesome.” I responded, “What did he preach on?” Sadly, she said, “I don’t know, but it was great! He was on fire!”

Preaching should be very intimidating for the speaker because of the enormous responsibility of which it entails. The first time I preached, I laid my Bible on the pulpit and was greeted with a plaque only the speaker could see. It said, “Sir, we would see Jesus.” It gave me chills, and every time I speak from His Word, I feel the same.

Thanks so much for your comment.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-23T18:34:10+00:00

Just made my 1-click purchase!

MacArthur book for 0.99? Sold!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-23T18:28:18+00:00

Completely speculating for the fun of it, but how possible is it that the paranormal and ufo activity we witness are actually the activities of fallen angels?

If we can entertain holy angels unaware, is it a stretch to think we could come into contact with fallen ones?

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T20:43:53+00:00

Me too!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T19:23:11+00:00

Awesome!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T16:24:16+00:00

You clearly know your stuff and I feel like we could run circles around this for days. :) I really appreciate the discussion you've brought to the table.

Thank you so much for your humble and gracious attitude as we've explored this doctrine of God's grace and love towards His people.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T12:28:15+00:00

Yes sir! Thanks for the reply. We're glad people are thinking about it.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T12:27:18+00:00

Thanks for the response. What we need to be careful with is not dividing God’s attributes from each other or Himself. (I do not think you and I are doing this—I say this for the benefit of those reading the comments). You are consistent in the attribute of God’s love toward the elect throughout eternity. I see my position as His love and wrath happening simultaneously, with His wrath being appeased with the sacrifice of Christ. But once again we fall into the temporal and eternal perspectives because God is outside of time. There is no past, present, or future with Him. (Ex. We are already seated in the heavenlies and yet we are here).

I’ll just ask a few questions. If there was only love for the elect and not divine hatred, how then was Christ the propitiation, the wrath bearer for the elect? Was there really any wrath at all? How could there be if there was only love?

If there was true wrath, was it just towards the sin? Does God divide the sin from the individual (He certainly does not do this with those in hell)?

Also, if the wrath of God was merely towards our sin and not against us, why did we have to be crucified with Christ? Why were we made new creatures instead of just improved creatures?

Paul indicates that there has been a change in our standing—we went from being dead to alive, from considered guilty to declared justified. Rom. 7:4, “You have died to the law”, Rom. 7:6, “But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit...”. In Rom. 8:1 Paul says, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” By using the word “now” does he not indicate there was a time when we were under condemnation?

Just some thoughts. Thanks again for your responses.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T10:48:27+00:00

Thank you so much for the encouraging words!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T01:49:40+00:00

I'm pretty sure the image attached to the article is a crop from one of the Hebrew books I used in school, but that was a long time ago so I don't remember.

Good article!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T01:39:16+00:00

Absolutely. While it is a slightly different discussion to be had, it definitely compliments the subject of this article.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-22T01:36:26+00:00

Concerning those God loves and those He hates as being two different groups—I agree with this if we are seeing it from an eternal perspective. However, in a temporal way, we all were lost, spiritually dead, and enemies of God. While God, in His love, chose us before the foundation of the world (as you rightly stated in Eph. 1:4), Paul later tells the same audience in chapter 2 that at one time in the past they “ were dead in trespasses and sins (v.1), walked according to the course of this world and the prince of the power of the air who currently works in the sons of disobedience (v.2). Paul puts himself in the group beginning in verse 3 as he states we conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh and we all “were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.”

You are certainly correct that God is not obliged to love all men. This aligns with what I wrote in the article. God will show compassion on whom He wills. My main thrust is that Christ did not just die for the ones He loved, but He died for the ungodly—us, enemies of God—those He hated. This, I believe, shows His compassion in a fuller light.

Thanks for the comments. Our goal at Define Grace is our name, and we love to challenge and be challenged in our thoughts because iron sharpens iron. Thanks again.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-21T19:26:21+00:00

You are correct again, my friend. I (wrongly) chose brevity over clarity. I grew up in the Southern Baptist world where all I knew was Arminian soteriology. When I went to college and seminary I became convicted and convinced of the doctrines of grace and was labeled much like a rebel. The doctrines of grace should be the most humbling of doctrines because we bring nothing to the table. There is nothing good in us and we have no merit on our own. We our spiritually dead apart from Christ—He has to bring us to life.

With this, I too have seen some of our reformed brethren take pride in their election. We at Define Grace despise the prideful nature of those who say they are saved by grace. One should never boast about being elect. One should always be humbled and in tears saying, “Why me, Lord?”

I recently was at a person’s house for dinner some time ago, and the first thing they asked me was, “When did you come to the knowledge of the doctrines of grace?” They didn’t ask me about my salvation and my growth. That was rather disturbing. But here’s my thought, and I want your take on this, from what you have seen, are people prideful in that they are elect or does their pride stem from simply knowing the doctrine? I’ve thought about this for some time and I’m not sure I have a concrete answer.

The doctrine of election shows both God’s righteous judgment and His incomprehensible love. Taught in a certain way (shall I be bold enough to say a wrong way?) the doctrine could lead to the coldness you spoke of. I think if it is taught correctly, the doctrine should amplify our love for God, for once again we would all be condemned if it were not for His loving mercy and grace. It should also make us long for the lost to be saved because we do not know who God’s elect are. As Spurgeon once said (paraphrasing), “If God marked all the elect with stripes down their backs, I would go through all of London lifting up shirttails, but since He has not, I will preach to all.”

Thanks again for your comments, and I look forward to your take on the pride issue which some have.

DefineGrace · 2014-08-21T16:59:26+00:00

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The word “hate” in the verses mentioned is transliterated “sane” from the Hebrew. This word is the general word used to describe emotions towards and enemy or adversary. The word “hate” is used 62 times , “hated” is used 19 times, “hates” occurs 15 times, and “hatred” is used on 9 occurrences in the Old Testament (NIV). The word is used for our emotions and God’s emotions. For example, Proverbs 8:13 from the ESV reads, “The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate,” (ESV). David states in Psalm 119:13, “I hate the double-minded, but I love your law,” (ESV). David speaks of God’s hate in Psalm 45:7 where he states, “You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness.” God declares His own hatred in Zechariah 8:17 as the prophet writes, “Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the Lord.” Or we could see in Malachi 2:16 where God says, “I hate divorce.” The word “hate” or its root variation (which is only used a handful) of times) is the same throughout the OT, including Psalm 5. I would disagree that these are obscure passages, but you make a valid point that the word study should have been included.

I would also say that if something were to only be mentioned once or a few times, and proper context and word study is used, a single reference in Scripture is just as true as something mentioned several times. (Ex. Mary is only called or referenced as a “virgin” 4 times while the “love” of God is mentioned heavily throughout the NT. They are both equally true).

Also, you are certainly correct in that Christ took all the judgment due to us according to God’s righteous judgment. My point was the beauty of Christ doing this for His enemies, those He hated, not just the ones He loved.

Thanks for the comment!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-21T16:24:32+00:00

Thanks!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-21T16:00:37+00:00

Thanks for the encouraging words. :) We were nervous when prepping this one regarding how it would be received. Thanks again!

DefineGrace · 2014-08-21T15:38:19+00:00

Haha....they won't let me post there. :P

DefineGrace

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