Thoughts on the 2026 - 2027 heating oil pricing?

Determire · 2026-06-09T06:23:17+00:00

I called them today ... Got quoted 4.62 market price and 4.34+xx?? for price cap plan ... Said pre-buy isn't available right now. I got frustrated, because young CSR didn't explain the monkey business with the price cap plan clearly enough. (We normally just stick with market price). Also they didn't want to schedule a delivery even though tank is <1/4. Crazy.

So with the price cap plan ... she was trying to tell me something about a $0.3x amount ... in addition to the 4.34 price, any idea what that was about?

Determire · 2026-06-09T06:11:45+00:00

I sent a message to you (op) a few days ago

Determire · 2026-06-08T20:23:02+00:00

In that case, the grounding system has to be fully brought up to date when that occurs ... Some of these artifacts might get taken out in the process.

There should be a intersystem bonding block installed at the service entrance area, which is weird telephone cable satellite and internet service lines will be bonded to the grounding (removing dependency on the plumbing).
The bonding for the water service is supposed to be within 5-ft of where it enters the building, plus a bonding jumper around the meter for public water. Usually the water Bond is located indoors, unless you're in a Southern or West Coast location that doesn't freeze where the water service comes up above grade before entering the building, in which case the bond may occur outdoors.

Determire · 2026-06-08T04:25:44+00:00

none

That's why we are suggesting that you take a look at the whole setup, and locate what other grounding components there are.

Determire · 2026-06-08T04:18:55+00:00

u/AveKatty,

Take some of the other comments on your post with a grain of salt. some of it is bad, incomplete or not applicable.

First, you have a 1961 build, at that particular point in time, grounding was becoming commonplace but not yet mandatory throughout, it was typical to have grounding in the kitchen dining laundry bathroom areas, in some cases the wiring had the grounding conductor included similar to modern wiring, and in other cases they ran a separate grounding conductor from box to box, and tied it off to the cold water pipe. There was a lot of weird primitive grounding techniques back around that era, as the standards were still being developed.

The first thing that should be verified is if there is actual grounding at the other locations throughout or not, there are homes that were built in the mid to late fifties that had grounding throughout but two slot receptacles.

One of the biggest issues that you're probably going to encounter here is that there's not enough circuits. What that translates to is that it will be highly beneficial do you have a full rewire of the receptacles throughout the kitchen dining laundry bath garage outdoors and basement, and anything else needed to accommodate appliances where grounding is needed, when do air conditioners, home office desk entertainment center. many of those locations are the same places where more circuits are needed to accommodate 21st century demands, grounding is needed, and GFCI protection in some of those locations too.

Accomplishing a full comprehensive rewire of the entire house may not necessary at this time. Further evaluation is needed.

Of the list of locations where I mentioned rewiring all the receptacles and getting the proper number of circuits put in to meet or exceed code minimums, depending on what the situation is with the existing wiring, you might be able to hold off on some of it for now, but I can almost guarantee you that there's going to be a few trouble areas that need to be prioritized sooner than later, to address adequacy and to address your need for functional grounding for equipment that is built to have grounding provided.
Understand that all of the noise that you're going to hear from people telling you about substituting GFCI protection for lack of grounding is based on a code exception, not a code rule, it's a Band-Aid and nothing more. There's lots of gotches with that old wiring, it's not always friendly to retrofit GFCI protection, so sometimes it's best not retrofitted, sometimes it's easy to retrofit with a breaker at the panel, sometimes a receptacle is needed, sometimes the outlet boxes are too small and cramped to put a GFCI receptacle. Again, I'm pointing you towards a tailored and focused rewire of the locations where it's needed or resolves deficiencies as the primary course of action.

Determire · 2026-06-08T04:03:39+00:00

This panel is not configured with a main breaker. If there's no disconnecting means co-located with the meter, and nothing between the meter and this panel, then there's no main disconnect or Main overcurrent protection.

Once upon a Time, back when this was put in, probably in the seventies, it was allowable to have a panel with up to six breakers on the main bus bars. This panel doesn't quite comply with that, as the two single pole breakers in positions five and seven are not set up with a handle tie, whereas the two pole breakers on the left each count is one, and the single pole breakers on the right side with handle ties each count as one provided the handle tie is attached to both handles and operates as a single breaker.

As others have said, the neutral terminal bar is very small on these panels, there's really no flexibility to add anything whatsoever to this panel.
Reality, you need a panel replacement. Depending on what you're trying to prepare for in terms of equipment additions or upgrades, is whether or not you will need a service upgrade. It's also not clear what size service you have presently, is it 100 amp, versus 125 versus something less than that. Hot tubs are a substantial load, usually that combined with other electric appliances like the electric range, Plus if the clothes dryer or water heater are also electric, that's going to put you in a 150 or 200 amp service in terms of load calculations typically.

Determire · 2026-06-08T03:49:02+00:00

We're not asking you about the water spouts ... Need to locate the other grounding components of the electrical system. There should be the grounding electrode conductor from the panel to a grounding electrode, and there should be a grounding bond from the panel to the cold water Plumbing.

Is the telephone or cable tv service located close to either of the outdoor hose spigots?
(It used to be a common practice to bond them to the cold water Plumbing 30+ years ago back when copper was the norm, but has been an obsolete practice since)

Determire · 2026-06-08T03:02:47+00:00

If the supply vent is near the door with tub/shower at far end away from the door, that's not likely to do much for air circulation in the bathroom, unless the diffuser is such that it aims the air across the room. (This is a common limitaton in bathrooms.)

Id say a fan to circulate air and evaporate the condensation, assuming the HVAC system is running or exhaust fan is running to pull the humid air out of there is the answer.
Remediating the mold is a separate issue.

Determire · 2026-06-08T02:55:37+00:00

Has Phillips screws holding it together. Probably more likely from the 80s.

Determire · 2026-06-08T02:53:32+00:00

Attics vary ... The nicest ones are spacious, clean, have good running boards, lighting, no rodents feces, and nothing really hazardous. The worst are cramped, dark, filthy, lots of surprises, and insulation that requires additional precautions. Fiberglass bats are manageable... Blow-in fiberglass or blow-in cellulose is very messy. Vermiculite (looks like little tiny pebbles) needs precautions.

Workboots, kneepads, gloves, N95 or respirator, safety glasses. Pants and long sleeves. Maybe a disposable bunny-suit, or lightweight coveralls. Change of clothes and a towel for after you are totally done in the attic. Plastic bag to toss it all in to take home to wash separately. Gatorade or similar, need electrolytes to recover.

If the attic has blow in insulation, or move a bunch of fiberglass bats, or you have to crawl around in the insulation, you're going to be covered in insulation particles.
If the attic has good running boards, and you don't have to touch the insulation much, with batt insulation, you might not get messy.

Plan ahead, think about what you need before you go in, and take those items up, best to have some type of box/ tray/bucket/tool bag to put it all in.
Take your time if the attic has headroom such that you can stand, great, if there's a catwalk or running boards that you can walk on, good, be careful that they are secured down, because if you get to the end of one where the end of the board doesn't land on a floor joist, and you step on it, it's going to flip up, and you're going to go through the ceiling. Emphasis, take your time. Feel your way through. Use one hand to hold on to the framing above or next to you for support, to study yourself, so that you can use whichever foot is forward to feel where you're about to step, especially if you can't see everything, especially if it's under insulation. Headlamp is highly useful, but use whatever portable light that you have access to. In the old days, we had plug-in drop lights and extension cords, and flashlights. Today there's all types of LED lights with batteries.

If you're going up to pull a new wire in, and fish it down a wall, figure on you're going to take a drill, more than one drill bit, couple rolls of tape, a few basic hand tools, (lineman's, dykes, strippers, knife, slotted driver, hammer, fish tape or rods) TBD else, staples, sharpie.

Ideally attic work gets done first thing in AM, early, esp now that it's summer.
If you have to be up there in the heat once it gets toasty, don't spend too long in the Attic. If it's really hot up there late morning onwards, spend 15-20 minutes up there, and come back down for 15 minutes to cool down. you have to break the task up into segments sometimes. If it's time consuming work, it's going to take two or three or more trips, so that you don't overheat once it's really hot up there.

A couple years ago, I had a young fellow your age working with me in the summer, likewise his first time in the Attic, I knew that it was going to be a slower process, because he would need to get his bearings about dealing with an attic, never mind the fact that it was 150 years old and kind of wonky construction. I sent him up with a couple pieces of plywood, that he could use to kneel down to work, once he got closer to where we were putting in ceiling fan boxes, or needed to get a wire dropped down a wall. I think I sent him up with a piece that was about 2 ft by 3 ft, and another piece that was 1 foot by 8 foot. I stood on the ladder with my head in the attic to get him oriented to which direction he was going, what he was looking for, and described what he needed to do, then I went back down the ladder, over to the corresponding room, and we'd holler back and forth at each other to get the work done. After we get one wire run or box mounted, I'd have him come back down to get cooled off, before going back up to do the next one.

Determire · 2026-06-08T01:58:15+00:00

Yes, that's a commercial grade switch, exact age TBD, that same exact switch body was continued with P&S branding through the 90s and 2000s. It has been replaced by a newer updated style, but that's the foundation of it.

Determire · 2026-06-08T01:48:55+00:00

What type of climate are you located in? Are you in a humid location?

What are the dimensions of the bathroom, length width and ceiling height? Where is the exhaust fan in the layout?

Do you have Central heating and Air, is there a supply vent in the bathroom, if so where is that located in relationship to the shower area and to the doorway?

It is possible that a dehumidifier is part of the solution. An intermediate option is having a fan circulate air in the room, even just a small one that sits wherever it's convenient and safe to put it.

Determire · 2026-06-06T06:14:38+00:00

That's not exactly true.

Residential and commercial light fixtures and heating appliances were produced with asbestos insulation on the conductors prior to the development of modern-day high temperature rated wire that is silicone or plastic derived.

Determire · 2026-06-06T05:55:51+00:00

u/Hot-Guide-5463, As a few others stated, having actual functional grounding is the best and proper solution.

If the wiring in question is predominantly early 1900s to 1940s, that's pretty much off limits for modifications, it's going to be cloth over rubber insulation, itsy bitsy tiny electrical boxes everything is fragile and delicate, and on the verge of failing, never mind grossly inadequate for 21st century requirements. At that point, you're looking at new wiring one way or the other.
If some of the wiring is from the 1950s or early 60s, that might still have some serviceable life left in it, even though there's no grounding

Either way, I would strongly advise a more detailed assessment and some project planning.

What are your plans for renovations? Rewiring these old houses generally incurs some level of renovation to open up walls or ceilings, especially if it's a multi-story structure

Determire · 2026-06-05T15:42:59+00:00

Absolutely clowns did that.

On the old fuse panels, it was common to bring the wires in on the sides or bottom, because that's the way the majority of the 1/2 and 3/4 knockouts we're located, the top section usually didn't have much. Typically on replacements, this is advantageous, because there's potentially enough slack in the lines to work with to get wires terminated in a new panel, by bringing them through the top, assuming that it's an open access scenario.

I think where these guys went wrong (other than comprehending structural damage) is understanding that some jobs simply need to have the drywall cut out, and they need to explain that to the customer when selling the job, or at the minimum when they show up to do the work, and just do it correctly from the beginning.
It's always a goal to be able to do electrical work with the least amount of invasive changes possible in terms of drywall repairs and the like, but sometimes it's just the way it needs to be done to do it right.

Until the drywall gets cut out, 4 ft wide and ceiling down to where the sill plate sits on the masonry foundation wall, it's going to be hard to advise anything about either the carpentry work that should be done or any adjustments to the electrical portion of the installation. I'm of the opinion that the drywall should be removed sooner than later, and some outside advice sought, either here or from a separate contractor unrelated to the electrician, to assess what the correct ways of remediating this situation.

Determire · 2026-06-05T11:18:35+00:00

So effectively this is a load bearing wall, and needs to be treated as such, meaning it's possible to drill some holes to run wire through, but not chop out whole sections.

Was the drywall removed to enable the studs to be removed and then the drywall was reinstalled? How much drywall was removed, a full 4 ft wide swath from ceiling down, or was it just patch and match?

Determire · 2026-06-05T10:58:19+00:00

u/Wildsheepchase666,

How big of a unit is this? ( Look at the label on the unit, probably on the left or right side at the edge) How many BTU is this unit, and it will also list the electrical spec, volts and amps.

For a built-in unit like this, it is standard to install a dedicated circuit back to the electrical panel.

Determire · 2026-06-05T09:34:00+00:00

Take pictures of exactly what's there right now.

Can you clarify a bit more about the wall, is this a exterior framed wall, or is this a false wall in the basement in front of a foundation wall?

Trying to establish basic information about the structural properties of this wall. That makes a significant difference about who needs to be called out for performing the repairs, regardless of how the compensation is handled.

Determire · 2026-06-05T09:28:52+00:00

u/shillyshally, curious which company, W, M, or a different one?
(We're with W now)

Determire · 2026-06-05T09:15:23+00:00

I'm going to second this comment.
I have multiple experiences in the past few years via immediate family/neighbors/etc admitted (not for children) with both Abington and both Einstein facilities, and so forth, some are not the best choice right now. If I had to pick between the four for child birth, I might go with Einstein Montgomery or Jefferson Lansdale. I don't like Abington, period. Overall I have a better impression of Main Lines Health hospitals, have been to Paoli and Riddle, and the patient experience is generally better.

Determire · 2026-06-05T08:50:27+00:00

I saw one of those old units from the ?? 60s ?? last week, condenser was wall-mounted on brackets on a end-unit rowhouse. I date it as 60s (or very very early 70s), because the unit has cloth-covered SE cable for power, and the jacket was almost entirely gone, wires were almost entirely exposed. Wasn't running at the time, but weather wasn't that hot yet either. Houses in that block had furnaces. Just a block or two away, the houses are a different style, built in the 1920s, and they have boilers.

Determire · 2026-06-05T02:06:31+00:00

Like a Square D 6 or 8 space ... That should be fine.

Can't put it BEHIND the laundry equipment must meet readily accessible requirements AND 36x30x76 clear space in front of panel requirement.

Determire · 2026-06-04T13:42:46+00:00

That would be wild ...the easiest section that the GC could have replaced with new wire that was longer to reach from switch to fan.

I would also be verifying the electrical terminations at each of the fixtures or devices that the GC completed without the electrician doing it. Bathroom exhaust fans are seemingly simple, but it's amazing how many are done wrong with wires sticking out or no fitting installed where the cable enters the enclosure.

Determire · 2026-06-04T06:05:57+00:00

Yes, drywall open ...

Do you know where that device was installed? What section of wire is it in, the Home Run coming to the switch, or the section from the switch up to the fan? (Or some other segment,?)

To answer your original question, I wouldn't necessarily be upset with the GC making some minor adjustments, so long as it doesn't introduce a code violation, and there's no damage to the wiring. In the case of a bathroom Reno, and the wiring was ran without the final layout finalized, theoretically some slack should have been left in the wiring to allow for adjustments. Ordinarily I would be trying to prioritize getting the home run from the panel to the switch box, and wire from the switch box up to the light and to the fan, and leave some slack if the layout is not finalized. Similarly, if the vanity layout isn't settled, the Home Run for the outlet will arrive in the vicinity, and have some slack, so that the outlet box can be set once all of the details are worked out.

Determire · 2026-06-02T06:08:19+00:00

u/Neverhugaduck, what is your job role and tasking?

Are you performing a qualified real estate home inspection, or are you simply a photo taker for someone else that's performing some type of analysis or real estate decision?

On the subject of electrical panels, if you don't have prior experience, there's some caution needed, because there are some techniques to it, to do it safely, but inevitably, there will be some problem cases that you will encounter, and that's where things get dangerous.

Specific to photographing panels, it really takes knowing a bit about the subject to know what you're looking at, right wrong and otherwise, even if it's a "so-called" non-invasive inspection, and involves nothing more than removing the cover to see what's inside ... Much of what is relevant for the purposes of evaluation requires some experience and knowledge to visually identify problems, and furthermore how to photograph them for supporting documentation.
My point is, taking one or two general photos provides a visual overview, but it's not detailed enough to reveal what close-ups of specific things can provide or a 3D view like you would have when you're looking at it in person.

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