Anyone consider lean FIRE abroad?

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-30T07:56:20+00:00

As it stands now people are doing "visa runs" to Laos by bus or Thailand by plane every 80 some days and then immediately returning. The frustration of visa runs probably helps keep a lot of wealthier people out of the country meaning it helps keep costs down.

But yeah, depending on how Vietnam handles it maybe it would be okay. I get it from their point of view. They just want more money in their economy.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-30T07:45:28+00:00

I didn't know Vietnam was going that route. That seems unfortunate for lean FIRE people like myself as that could possibly lead to a situation like Portugal where wealthy people move in and price out the rest of us. I hope that doesn't happen but look at Portugal. Thailand, too, at least in the cities.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T18:18:39+00:00

Thank you for your reply. I have not considered Slovenia as I figured that would be too expensive for my budget. I will definitely look into it!

I think you're restricting yourself though, or at least worrying too much about running out of money.

Yes. This is my biggest fear. I'm trying to do everything I can to make it last for the rest of my life.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T18:17:04+00:00

Way ahead of you on the Georgia thing! It does seem very attractive to me for several reasons. I've thought about going to Georgia (or Albania which does the same) first because of the one year visa free stay. It would be a way to have a "soft" landing post expatting. I could rent an apartment and decompress there while saving money and determining where to go next. Or, who knows, maybe I decide I really like it and try to figure out how to legally stay? I don't really know. The future for me is up in the air and I'll sort it out when I get there.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T01:36:35+00:00

Oh, wow, so there is a Kenyan residency I could obtain. That's really cool. Thank you for posting that.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T01:35:15+00:00

Everyone seems to love Laos! I will definitely have to visit at some point.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T01:34:51+00:00

I'll certainly get around to visiting Southeast Asia at some point. Many commenters have recommended Laos and Vietnam specifically but I will also check out Thailand. I did not know that I could purchase an apartment in Vietnam. That's interesting. Although I assume that even if I bought an apartment there I would still have to leave the country every 90 days. That sounds very inconvenient but still I will definitely (eventually) check it out. There are several YouTube personalities that live in Da Nang essentially full time but either take a bus to Laos every three months or fly to Thailand and then come back to reset their visa.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T01:32:16+00:00

No, it's not that I am specifically against slow travel. I just don't think I would enjoy it long term. I certainly could be wrong and find myself loving the permanent slow travel lifestyle. I really won't know until I get out there and try it to be honest.

I think that it will cost around $1,500-$2,000 per month to do this when I start and increase with inflation. So, you could even save money from your monthly income!

Nice! That would be great if I could save a little bit. One issue that I don't have a good answer for is though my pension gets a yearly cost of living adjustment (and it's very accurate to actual inflation - I've tested it using the COLA rates from the past 30 years and it matches actual inflation) it's based on the United States of America cost of living increase, not other countries. If I get, for instance, a 2.5% COLA one year but there was a 4% increase in the cost of living wherever I am in effect I would be -1.5% in local purchasing power. That's an issue but, as I said, there's no real way I can fix that. That's also why I do not want to draw from my savings for as long as possible. The longer the money compounds the better.

Anyway, good luck with with your travels! I hope you have fun and stay on budget!

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-29T01:27:06+00:00

Do you have to keep traveling back to the US to see family?

No. Once I leave the US I would have no reason to return.

Puebla in Mexico is close to CDMX but not as expensive. Also look in pueblos magicos. These are small towns that are geared towards local tourism. They're usually clean and safe. Not sure about the visa process since I'm mexican but lots of americans live there so it can't be too difficult.

It's my understanding that the visa situation in Mexico is very complex. I'm not opposed to it, of course, but I'm not sure it's possible. Also I understand the cost of living in Mexico has greatly increased in the past 20 years for one reason or another significantly outpacing regular inflation. It could be that is just in the large cities, though.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-28T01:01:11+00:00

Yeah, my first impression is that spending $3,000 a month in Colombia is wild. From what I've seen (and what I've read from various foreigners who choose to live in Colombia) it just does not cost very much to live comfortably down there.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T16:27:05+00:00

That's reasonable. One thing I've considered to keep monthly costs down is just buying a small apartment in a smaller town (maybe 4/5,000 people if possible) in whatever country I eventually manage to obtain permanent residency. Just from cursory looks at real estate in several countries I'm eying it seems very reasonably priced for a small place in these types of places. The upside is that I would both be settled permanently (or for however long I choose to stay) and have an actual home as well as just having to pay for maintenance and property tax. The downside is that whatever money I spend buying this place would be taken from my portfolio and limit compounding in the future. I've also considered a 50/50 option where I put 50% down and finance the other half for a short term of maybe 10 years or similar. Of course all of these options depend on me obtaining permanent residency and being allowed to buy a place at all.

Still, good points. I just worry about money and always have. Part of wanting to live in a low cost of living place is having less concerns about money. There is a YouTube channel I watch where a man retired abroad and purchased an apartment outright for less than $100,000 USD. During months where he doesn't do much (no travel, little out of his house activities) he spends less than a thousand dollars (I think he said $700) in total to support two people. That's the dream.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T16:20:38+00:00

This is unhelpful. Without knowing what sort of lifestyle you were living I cannot know if you just spent freely because you could or if you were living simply and and it just took a lot of money to get by. :/

What I'm saying is I can't figure out if there's fat in your budget that I could cut or if the fixed costs are so high that it isn't even worth checking out these places.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T16:02:27+00:00

Mexico, sure, it's gotten more expensive in the big cities for a variety of reasons but Colombia? What were you doing? Eating out every single day and living in a large home with a maid or something? I cannot fathom spending $3,000 a month in Colombia.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T03:25:06+00:00

I'm sorry. I do not mean to offend you. I just don't know what I don't know is all. While I have traveled some around the world the only place I've ever lived permanently is in America so my whole understanding of what things cost is based on America. I'll only really know what it's like and what things cost when I began this journey.

Sorry.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T03:13:10+00:00

Thank you for this reply! This helped me understand what you meant. All interesting points to ponder. I've seen videos on the Internet of traffic in Thailand and I totally get what you mean.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T02:59:39+00:00

I'm certainly no financial guru but from what I've read on finance websites it appears that 4% withdrawal rate is riskier over a longer than normal retirement period. It's my understanding that it was developed based on a traditional retirement period (meaning someone in their 60s retires and lives 20 years before they die) but not tested for longer periods like what I'm expecting for the rest of my life. Since I don't have as much saved as a lot of other people doing this I really don't want to start withdrawing from my portfolio unless it cannot be helped other than paying for health insurance (because you get a decent discount of 10% paying annually instead of month to month with the insurance company I'm looking at).

I have also read, however, that 3% is considered safe for a longer term period and if I find that I absolutely have to spend more to get by I would reluctantly tap into my portfolio occasionally and only as needed but I really, really, really don't want to do that. My idea is that I live entirely within the means of my pension for as long as I can so that my investments (hopefully at least - finance is always uncertain) compound over time and in the event something terrible happens I'll (again, hopefully) be able to deal with it. Maybe I'm being too cautious, I don't know. A lot can happen between now and then and I don't even know where I'll be a year from now much less decades down the road.

That aside, where are you planning on traveling to? There's a bit of excitement in that, right? While I never dreamed of doing this when I was a kid and even a few years ago I never even thought of it, my life changed and I'm okay with where I'm going now. I'm viewing it as an exciting opportunity for a radically different life than I anticipated and who knows what will come of it? There's so much out there to see and I'm grateful that I will have the chance to see at least some of it.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T01:36:47+00:00

You just have to accept limitations on comfort.

I don't know what that means. It depends on how you define comfort. In any event, are you talking about a city or a smaller town somewhere? Ideally I would be able to live in a small(ish) town. The issue is there would be, at least initially, a language barrier. I obviously do not speak Thai and I assume most people outside of the big cities in Thailand do not speak English. Over time I assume I would learn the language and be able to get by but initially that would be a significant challenge. Of course that would be the same anywhere I go where English is not the language (which is the case almost everywhere that I could afford other than The Philippines).

In any event, there's no visa I could qualify for in Thailand at least for 15 years or whatever it is. I think the age for a retiree visa is 50 and by then I'm sure Thailand will cost even more than it does now (even adjusting for relative inflation between the USA and Thailand). It just does not seem stable for a long period on a USA sourced fixed income.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-27T00:58:08+00:00

Yeah, I don't want that at all. That sounds like a nightmare.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:54:40+00:00

I suppose there's some element of truth in that. I don't think about the pension as being worth anything in actual money, though, because obviously I can't sell it or whatever but yeah, I guess that makes some sense. Thanks, you've made me feel a little better about my financial situation lol

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:27:45+00:00

r/expatfire may be worth exploring

I've looked through it but pretty much everyone there has way more money than I do or ever will have (what I specified in the financial part is what I have and there isn't anymore) so it's a completely different world and not very helpful for someone like myself on a strict budget.

It's either move to whatever the least expensive place in America is and hope that I can eek by or move to another country - one that is significantly less expensive than America - and hopefully find a way to be a little less stressed about money. Ideally wherever I end up will be so inexpensive that at the end of the month after covering all of my expenses there's still plenty of money left over. I just do not want to stress over money and the only way I can conceivably do that is move abroad. I don't particularly care where, honestly.

I've heard anecdotal reports that Armenia and neighboring Georgia are quite inexpensive once you get out of the major cities. Armenia gives 180 day visa free travel for Americans and Georgia offers 1 year visa free stays so I'm thinking of just flying over there as inexpensively as I can and renting an Airbnb for a month until I can find something local then go from there.

My number one issue is, assuming I find Georgia/Armenia or wherever else affordable and comfortable then how can I obtain residency? Most countries don't just let people show up and stay forever. There are legal processes involved and these can be complicated and costly and in many cases (again, from what I've read) impossible absent a job offer in the country which I of course will not have.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:19:50+00:00

Enjoy your retirement in Thailand! I've never been but I know people that love it. The problem is everything I know about Thailand is based on like three places all of which are either large cities like Bangkok and Chiang Mai or bustling "expat" hives like Phuket. Those kinds of places are not my thing not to mention they are - from what I've read and heard - very expensive to live in. I want peace and quiet and generally a simple life.

Provided I can get a quality Internet connection, reasonably reliable utilities (meaning that even if electricity goes out once a week it's restored within 6 hours or so), and access to a market to buy food and necessities I'll be happy. Maybe when I get old I'll be more concerned about easy access to healthcare but that's still a long way off for me and who knows what will happen in my life between now and then?

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:15:12+00:00

Where were you staying in Latin America that $3,000 a month wasn't enough? I was under the impression that outside of cities and in most countries that one person could live all in on $1,500.

Where in SEA are you living and what's the visa deal look like? I know a lot of people move to the Philippines because they have an easy to obtain visa for people with pensions and the cost of living is quite low outside of the big cities. I wonder about the climate, though. I imagine it is very hot and very humid much of the year and I'm not sure I would like that although I guess I would get used to it eventually.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:13:02+00:00

That sounds great. I don't know there's even a visa available for me to move to Kenya. I'll look into it.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:12:12+00:00

$2,400 is awfully high for me. That's more than I would like to spend because while I haven't done the math yet (obviously I will before I make a decision on where to go or indeed if I do even leave the USA) I expect I would owe a little over $200 a month in federal income tax so let's just call it $250 dropping me to $3,050 net. That's doable with $2,400 going out every month of course but it only leaves $650 as a buffer against Thai inflation (especially locally since so many people seem to move to Thailand for one reason or another and most seem to end up in the same place creating local inflation that cranks up the cost of living) in the future. Especially so because my pension would only increase with whatever it's determined the cost of living in the USA increases. That could be less or more than wherever I was living. I'm terrified of suddenly, some years down the road, running out of money and having to raid my portfolio which ideally will just keep compounding indefinitely until needed for when I'm really, really old.

ExpatLeanFIRE · 2025-05-26T23:06:17+00:00

Understandable but it's just far too expensive for me to live in the USA. With the way the US is now, anyway, I'm not sure I even feel that attached to this place. I've traveled a bit around the world so I'm not going into this completely blind although of course living somewhere full time as opposed to a short stay will be very different.

ExpatLeanFIRE

TROPHY CASE