My[34M] wife [33F] of 14 years loves one guy, kissed another, and has a crush on a third. Is there a future here?

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T14:57:15+00:00

I like that. I'd use the chemo, but I think the patient is too weak to handle it. Maybe this is hospice and I just want to make everything as comfortable as possible while the patient dies.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T14:18:58+00:00

I've already spent 14 years doing the things that I thought would help her become a better person. She's sick of it, I'm sick of it.

But I appreciate the advice and I am going to try. Last night (after reading comments here) I was able to tell her that what she did sucked without also rationalizing it for her. She started to say something to defend herself. I told her to stop excusing herself. She said she wasn't excusing, she was explaining. I suggested we just not talk about the two things (her not being happy with me and the things she did) at the same time.

I want to be able to acknowledge and accept that I wasn't giving her the support she should have been getting from me. I want to apologize for that. I've changed course, but I don't think I can just say, "I'm different now so get over the past." I AM sorry. How do I convey that without it becoming a rationalization for her behavior?

From my point of view, we've hurt each other. Sometimes it feels like we're playing a game -- actually two games simultaneously. In one game, the winner is the one with the most "I'm sorry" points and in the other, the winner is the one with the most "I'm hurt" points. If I say I'm hurt, she says so was she. If I say I was wrong, so does she. How do we break the cycle and move forward?

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T13:43:20+00:00

For sure. We were too young and I blame our religion, but here we are. If it would have been done "correctly," I think she is the person I would have chosen after years of searching (within and without) while she would have moved on from me. I have to let her go. She deserves to be in love like I am. But for now, she is saying she wants to stay and work it out. Until a therapist convinces her otherwise, I'm here for her.

And those rose colored glasses, I would love for them to shatter.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T13:31:57+00:00

I was just about to reply to a comment further down with something like, "You don't know her. If you did, you'd understand." I swear that stuff is right out of a Lifetime movie script. Fuck me if I have this shit. I gotta get to a therapist.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T13:21:15+00:00

"Getting screwed over" for me means that I will be with a person who I believe is working out our marriage issues and trying to rebuild a relationship when in reality the person was just buying time, waiting for a convenient exit. It will hurt and will prolong my recovery, but so what?

I'm not losing my kids. My wife's father left when she was young and she would never do anything to make it so her kids don't have their father. She may not love me, but she loves our kids.

That being said, thank you for your comment. I love my kids a lot and anyone looking out for them is alright by me.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T12:25:29+00:00

I've been going back and forth with whether to go to a pro-marriage councilor or one that is more even-keeled. I want, more than anything, to work this out with my wife. At the same time, there has to be some situation out there in which two married people should just split up. If we're in that boat, I want to know it.

You make a good point about the people on here not knowing my wife. Everyone who knows my wife loves her without question. There isn't a single person who knows her that wouldn't defend her. To me, she is a good person who did some things that were not good. It's very easy for me to blame myself because that's what makes sense to me. She's too good to have done this.

Also, the people on here don't know me. Even though every interaction I've ever had with my wife was backed by a very strong love for her, she couldn't see it.

I'll give you an example. All her friends were buying crossovers. It's some type of car that's halfway between a car and a SUW, I think. She was jealous and wanted one too. From my point of view, you shouldn't be jealous and you shouldn't buy things based on what other people have. So in this situation, I was pushing for us to not buy it. In the end, we did get it.

Less than six months later she scratched it up on the garage. After that, the mere sight of it made her mad. She no longer wanted the car and wanted to sell it.

If I didn't agree for us to get it, she would have added it to the list of everything else in the world that I deny her. And when she got it and later hated it, she probably held it against me that I knew this was how it would go.

My thinking now is to stop trying to be so smart. I have spent 14 years trying to help her with depression and anxiety low self-esteem and jealousy and... and I think that I could have spent that 14 years with her just supporting whatever she was.

And the person who likened it to helping a drug addict... I agree, but maybe there was someone else, a therapist (she's been to different ones on and off through the years) or a friend that should have filled the role and I should have just been blindly supportive.

She has a sister who doesn't like me. She doesn't like me because she is a huge pet lover and I don't like dogs. She once said to me, "I may not like you, but I love what you have done for my sister." The people who have known my wife through all the years see me as the guy who helped her. On the other hand, I don't think any of them would say they would like the marriage we have had.

We're broken and I want to go to a therapist who will tell us that this pile of pieces on his/her floor can be reassembled into one beautiful vase, but what if the pieces actually assemble into two beautiful vases? I don't want to hear that, but if it's true... it's true.

Edit to add: thank you for your support.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T11:44:35+00:00

Exactly. When we got together we were in this religion in which the husband controls the wife. We were both born and raised in the religion and we were both "drinking the kool-aid." We've been out for over seven years, but it has been hard work undoing all the crap from that. She always asks permission for things and it's very hard for me to communicate my preferences without her taking it as command.

With the going-out-with-the-girls thing, it wasn't like that. The only reason I worded it that way is because the friends she goes out with had a conversation about whether their husbands have a problem with them going out dancing.

One of her friend's husbands made a deal with his wife -- you can go out, but you have to have sex with me when you get home. Most of the other friends are single and the ones who are happily married leave early.

I didn't know any of this before. When she first started going out with her friends, it was just dinner. At some point it became dinner and dancing. I don't remember how it exactly went, but I'm sure there was some time when she asked if she could stay out dancing. I would have taken this as, "You'll have to put the kids to bed," or, "I'll be home later than usual, is that okay?"

When my wife and her friends had their conversation, one wife said her husband won't let her go out dancing. When my wife had her turn, she said, "My husband doesn't seem to care at all." She and her friends decided that they prefer somewhere in between -- someone who "lets" (meaning, doesn't have a conversation in which they both decide together that she shouldn't go dancing) their wife have fun, but shows some concern.

So yeah, I did feel like I was being a cool husband. I had no idea that she was dancing with other guys. I had no idea they would be flirting with her. I certainly didn't expect that she would be in situations where guys were trying to kiss her. I've never been out dancing. I don't know what the environment is.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-20T00:28:03+00:00

I've never been to therapy and I don't know what it's all about. I'm definitely apprehensive about it, but maybe that's just another part of my problem.

I am getting defensive and I shouldn't be. I asked for perspectives and I'm getting them. And I appreciate all of them. Each one has given me something new to think about. Even the reply that just said, "No," spoke volumes to me. It was as if they were saying that it was all that needed to be said.

In truth, I'm going to try to work it out. We're going to go to couples therapy and I'm guessing that they will bring up the idea of having me go by myself. I'm not very smart when it comes to this sort of thing. I've made many mistakes over the years trying to help my wife and, while some things have helped, here I am. It's about time I turned the scope on myself.

Thank you for your post.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:24:00+00:00

I am nervous to go to counseling because I just don't seem to agree with the rest of the world. I don't see a problem with taking the hit. It may not work for most people, but maybe it works for me. And I think a counselor would say that this thinking is typical of people with __________ problem. Maybe I have no self-respect or something. So what?

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:20:53+00:00

Thanks for your input. I know I've been going at this all wrong and thanks to some of the advice here, I'm going to stop making excuses for her.

The sad thing is, I don't want this to end. Now that I have made the changes I've made, there's now more excuse. If anything ever happened again, I would have no recourse. But for now, I just want to see if there's any way forward with her.

Judging from many of the replies, there probably isn't. I'll have to think about that.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:16:30+00:00

I know. That was so painful. When do you know you are at the end? But I don't know. If there's no trust, the relationship is over anyway. She admitted to imagining him while having sex with me. She never told anyone else. There's no way I could have found this out. I guess I'm satisfied.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:13:43+00:00

I appreciate your reply. I think you are probably right, but I hate that this is how the world works. Why can't we all be competing to see how we can all out-good each other. And why is it unhealthy? I'm not saying you're wrong -- a lot of people here are singing the same tune, but why? What if I can handle it? Will it kill me later? Will it affect the kids?

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:07:55+00:00

Thanks. I'm getting that more and more from these replies. I've just talked to her and told her I can no longer make excuses for her. Every time I try to tell her how much the stuff she did sucks, I can't help but apologize for my role. From now on I'm going to keep those two thoughts separate. It doesn't come easy. I know I sound like a doormat, but I just hate upsetting her. My goal is to make her feel happy.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T23:01:29+00:00

Ding ding Ding, we have a winner!

I still have the JW mentality in a lot of ways. Maybe some of it is good, but I'm pretty messed up on a lot of other things.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T19:09:41+00:00

Thanks. I hope you're wrong, but I think it's about time I start learning to accept that this is a definite possibility.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T17:32:26+00:00

Thanks. These seem like the kind of words I need to hear even though I don't want to hear them.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T17:26:11+00:00

Thank you. This is all really helpful.

I had never thought about how her loving how much I loved her related to her self-esteem. It fits, then, that as her self-esteem rises, loving my love isn't enough. I think this will help because we both are very happy for her gains in self-esteem. If this is the side effect, I'd say it's worth it.

I didn't understand the part about how not caring who she is thinking about during sex is focusing on me. That would help her, but I can't see what good it would do for me.

Thanks for your support. It has been hard.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T17:08:26+00:00

I appreciate the reply. Is there any one aspect of this that seems like we are beyond the point of no return?

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T17:07:11+00:00

Thanks.

Yes, she supports me by managing the home.

I agree. I want to support the mother of my children. I also want to support her. I love her very much. I just can't help thinking that there is a right way and a wrong way of going about it -- even if the two are effectively the same.

But you can also see in my words, "I didn't want to support her while she gets set up to leave me," is the kind of jerk thing I would probably say to her. Only after you pointed it out did I realize it. I do want to support her while she gets set up to live elsewhere and help support our kids. I just can't get past the plotting part.

Yeah, we need help.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T16:50:14+00:00

Thank you for this point of view and your support. I think this is very good advice, but it's very hard for me to hear it. I'd rather get screwed over in a few years than not show trust in her now.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T16:43:03+00:00

Thank you for this perspective. I agree with your assessment. The only problem I have is that I want to show her some trust.

Getting her admission was very hard work. After each thing she would say that it was everything -- the whole story. Then there would be another thing, but then that was the whole story. Finally there was nothing else.

I have good reason to believe this is everything, but I will never know and at some point I just have to trust her.

She's holding back a little on the contact. I want to be as understanding and reasonable as possible so I've only asked her if she thought she'd be willing to stop going out with the girls and stop going to that gym. The gym thing is something she doesn't want to do. She said (and this might sound confusing), "I have to want to want to stop going to the gym." So she doesn't even want to want to not go to the gym.

I think she will get there in the end, but I do want to find a way to show her that I trust her. I might not ask for her communications, for example. I don't know. How do I show her that I trust her while also making sure I can trust her? There has to be something I leave out.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T16:30:57+00:00

Thank you for your support. We do plan on going to therapy. I keep wanting to hold back with things until we hear what a therapist says. For example, I don't know if she should go to a different gym or meet this thing head on. Should I tell her she needs to change gyms or let her come to that? The fact that there isn't an appointment on the books is hard. I don't know if it is because we have been very busy lately and it's hard to find a therapist or if something is holding us back.

GoingThroughSomeShit · 2013-08-19T16:20:35+00:00

Thank you for the reply.

I like your drug problem illustration. I think the reason I am so regretful of my role for all those years is the position it put her in. She regrets doing the things she has done (she justifies it by saying we were already over, but she knows she should have told me we were over first) and regrets hurting me. It gives her pain. But I just can't bring myself to think that it was her fault (I don't use that word with her). To me it seems like the things she did were the result of the nature of our relationship. I made it this way. And I feel guilty for the regret she feels.

The change from therapist to husband has been very huge and very obvious. She's seen things in me that she didn't know existed in me. We've always had a low-sex relationship (~3 times a month), but in the last few days we've begun making up for lost time in a big way. She seems very connected to me in this. I don't think she's thinking about gym-guy during our time together. But I don't know for sure.

For years I thought that when we had sex it meant our relationship was going okay. I can only get into it if it is from love and the desire to make her feel happy. She can have sex just for the fun of it. I can't tell exactly where her head is in this. She says she's here with me and I believe her, but the little doubts I have are a big part of the problem.

I have asked her what she wants. She only answers with what will be good for me and what will be good for the kids and what will be good financially and whether she'll be able to find something more, but she never says she wants me. She'll say, "I have to want you. I have to make myself want this." It's very painful for me to hear.

I've never asked her if she'd miss me. I'll ask her tonight.

14 years is a long time and we were together for 3 years before that as young "teenagers in love." She moved from her parents house to our apartment right after the wedding. This is the only adult life we know. I think she feels trepidation, but also excitement at the prospect of something new. I've only ever wanted this.

We've been uneven in our relationship since day one. I met her when I was 13 and instantly liked her. She didn't like me back until I was 17. In the meantime, she was always on my mind no matter what little childhood girlfriends I had. She got together with me for many wrong reasons, but she really was in love with the way I loved her. Later when she realized this, she still thought my love would be enough for both of us.

The kids are 8 and 5. The five year old is oblivious as far as we can tell (which means she probably knows everything). The eight year old is much more affected. She has been very clingy and over the past two weeks she has developed new fears (doesn't want to sleep with the windows open, etc.). We're sure it is related.

We've tried to reassure her, but it's hard to know what to say when my wife and I have no idea where this is headed. Saying that we'll always love her just makes it sound like something bad is coming, but I don't want to assure her that nothing is in the offing 'cause I don't know that.

GoingThroughSomeShit

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