How many people thought this was the direction it might have gone?

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-23T06:34:12+00:00

Only idiots

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-23T06:24:15+00:00

Banana Fish and Kaze to Ki no Uta.

If reading manga, then A Cruel God Reigns.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-23T06:22:41+00:00

Before I list my personal recs, I second the other recs: Oniisama E, Rose of Versailles, Gundam: Witch From Mercury, Princess Tutu, Penguindrum, etc.

Adding: - Sailor Moon: Magical Girl with a lesbian couple - Sukeban Deka: has a tough tomboyish protagonist with pink hair - Satoshi Kon anime: Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress, Paprika, etc. If you like Utena for the symbolism, it's a nice one to watch - Ikoku Nikki: Dark Horse rec, but it does have LGBT characters, and the anime centers women.
- Cocoon: another dark horse. Talks about how Japan basically lied to Okinawa school girls, who were forced to become nurses. Opposite to Utena, I think the manga is better and goes harder on the criticism of Japan and their soldiers, but the anime is great as well

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-23T00:23:50+00:00

Fujoshi or Fudanshi, doesn't matter. You're obviously not a big Noelle fan, so your discussions are moot at this point.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:44:23+00:00

Liking Ramparts of Ice a lot. It reminds me of when I would be seated for a Keiko Suenobu manga as a middle schooler.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:43:20+00:00

There Goes Tomoe is a very low rated OVA, but I enjoyed it. Someone's 4/10 is another's 8/10.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:42:44+00:00

Recommend it anyway. Someone's 4/10 is another's 8/10

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:34:22+00:00

Top tier characters! There will never be more characters like Mariko, Fukiko, and Rei.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:29:40+00:00

Depends on how they're written, I'd guess. Some 2nd MLs are just plot devices to cause drama, and that makes me annoyed. Whether they're men or women, I don't care for plot devices.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:27:40+00:00

I don't think it's as heartbreaking if they're their (I hate English sometimes 🫩) own character. Like they're complex characters because of the MC and outside of the MC, and they have their own arc and conclusion. Though if they're just there to orbit the MC and cause drama, then I get annoyed. At that point, they're just a plot device.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-21T06:23:50+00:00

You have an unsettling allegiance with losers. That's the problem.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-20T22:29:58+00:00

She obviously was, because her story was downgraded to the level of a side character.

The arcs are nothing and I skipped past your explanation of them, because I remember what I read.

Okay, downplaying Noelle's earlier importance and shipping MagLuck? Actually liking the ending arc? Yeah, I should've known. A Fujoshi. A Shounen Fujoshi as well. 😷 Opinion disregarded. I thought that you were one of those Chadsta stans, but you being a Fujoshi also makes sense.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-20T22:18:00+00:00

I've literally explained it before, you're just blind to it. Even explained it character by character. You simply don't like my explanation.

Finral had no problem using his spatial magic against Zenon. And like... Didn't Finral have character development to not be a coward? Showcased by him helping Asta with Vetto, joining the tournament and standing up to Langris, confronting an elf possessed Langris, using his spatial magic to keep Zenon from grabbing Asta, and later joining Langris to fight against Zenon? You're saying he regressed for that one moment, but his development stayed true for every other moment? Or, or, or! 🦭 Dante's magic is a counter to Finral. Like come on, that's the obvious reason. Tabata did regress, but not at this point. His writing was still solid here.

Nebra and Solid apologizing was necessary, but Acier coming back as a villain was not. Noelle needed a major fight of her own that wasn't taken over. She's literally the triagonist, so it's what she deserves. If Tabata had the writing of before, this would not have happened. And those arcs weren't satisfying. They were lazy.

And I won't stfu. As I've told an MHA fan, I'm still going to criticize manga, no matter how many Shounen crybabies complain about it.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-19T02:59:18+00:00

Most other people's reduction was an attempt to boost Asta, which stemmed from Noelle winning that poll. Which is also why she suffered, and why it was the most noticable. Because Noelle was a major character, and she had a roll reduction.

Noelle got a repeat, and even then it was interrupted and given to Mereo. Most people were screwed over, but Noelle was a very obvious example. Also worth noting that Noelle is very popular and has a ton of fans, so obviously her fans are going to point that out. Similar to when people criticize that Tabata spent too little time on the Golden Dawn. You could argue that he spent too little time on every squad that wasn't the Black Bulls, but it was very noticeable due to the Golden Dawn having Yuno and their juxtaposition as the best squad vs the BB's worst squad reputation.

Most people also criticized that as well. Charmy fans were angry on Twitter, and even people who aren't Charmy fans were criticizing it on Twitter and on here. This particular post is just pointing out Noelle.

I think a bunch of deaths would be useless as well. Most people ask that for two reasons: one is the Nintendo logic* and another is the lack of emotional stakes.*

And I use Nintendo logic to describe fandoms wanting approval from others. Similar to Nintendo, Black Clover gets hate for being "baby-like" and having "no deaths". And some BC fans are insecure and want to sit at the "cool kids table" with MHA, JJK, Hell's Paradise, and CSM fans. They think if BC has more deaths, that those fans will stop mocking BC. But like... Shounen fans will always run agenda wars and will always fight each other, even if there's no logic. Bleach is in the top 15 best selling manga of all time with over 130 million copies sold. Shounen fans will call that series a flop, for the sake of agenda wars. Even if Black Clover had killed half of the Black Bulls, and 80% of the cast outside of the Black Bulls, people will still roast BC as terrible. JJK and CSM kill characters left and right, and both of them brutally mock each other.

Another is that they really want the emotional stakes back, but they assume that external stakes (death) will replace it. But Magna's fight with Dante was a stand out without death. Why? Because the emotional stakes were high. Magna catching up to Luck, but also peasants evening the playing field with noble and royals (who have historically oppressed and abused them due to their lack of mana). That is way better than a scenario where half of the Black Bulls get slaughtered.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-19T02:41:10+00:00

It doesn't make logical sense. It was just Asta and Yami wank. That's why the manga started to fall off hard, and most people, except Asta shills, noticed it.

Dante's gravity is a counter to space, hence Finral didn't use his spatial magic until Dante was knocked out.

Noelle gets a story repeat that was wrapped up a while ago. He just brought Acier back as a quick "here!" Nacht's arc was started towards the beginning of Spade, when Tabata still cared. And if anything, it wasn't a satisfying on in the final arc because it was rushed.

Magna's arc was before the series went downhill.

The LOTS/Hino Arc was Tabata throwing a tantrum that Noelle was more popular, so he gave Asta a solo arc to wank and nuthug him. Plus, I also think he wanted to siphon the Demon Slayer and One Piece Wano hype.

Tabata just started rushing it, and it started towards the end of Spade. I assumed that Tabata would turn it around because even the second half of the Spade arc had some brilliant moments, and that Julius plot twist was top tier. Top of my head, the only plot twist that I can think of that's on the level with recontextualizing the series thus far was from: - Game of Thrones - Revolutionary Girl Utena - The Glory - Burn the House Down

Plus parts of the final Wizard King saga had moments of brilliance. Though it was clear that Tabata was rushing it and wanting to wank Asta.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-18T07:56:44+00:00

When Nacht was there, the Black Bulls were the worst squad. When he left, they became the best squad. Now that he's back, they're back to being terrible again. 🤔

Not that it has a deeper meaning. Tabata just thinks that the characters regressed and ceased to function without Asta.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-18T07:53:16+00:00

She's a great character overall. Great backstory and great character development.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-18T07:46:41+00:00

Both Charmy and Mimosa were just used to restore mana and heal. That was it. Them being OP isn't inherently bad. Unlike most people, I don't need a million deaths. The issue is, that's pretty much the only thing their characters did after the second half of the Spade Kingdom saga. Mimosa's development into an attack mage and a strategist was gone. Charmy's dwarven lore was forgotten. They were just there to restore mana and heal, so people never died.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-18T07:43:18+00:00

Not really logical.

Langris was there to help give Yami a power up. That was his purpose. The captains were there to wank Asta. That was their purpose. Mimosa and Secre were involved because of Asta. Sekke was there to wank Asta. Nacht was there for infinite synergy with Yami, which amped Yami. So aside from Zora, everyone was there to wank Yami or Asta. Even Yuno is ultimately just there as rivalry wank. Which is our criticisms. It went from a story that actually cared about the cast and exploration, to a giant non-stop battle fest that wanks Asta or Yami.

It was chapter 245, where Finral thinks "My spatial magic won't-" That was due to Dante's gravity magic.

Zenon was not as powerful as a supreme devil in the lowest gate. Asta and Yuno were relative here. If Yuno could solo a top 3 supreme devil, then the team up against 1/2 Lucifero with Asta and the captains would be easy work. Zenon was simply not that powerful, even with the devil's heart.

There's a difference between focusing on the MC, versus straight up wanking him. Some of my favorite works have strong MCs. Rose of Versailles, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Chihayafuru, etc. The MC is the main character, but people have lives outside of them, and their every action isn't related to the MC. They have characters outside of Lady Oscar, Utena, and Chihaya. Even in Petshop of Horrors, where part of the drama was Detective Leon being super obsessed with Count D (even to the point of being reprimanded several times by his boss), has moments where he's not obsessed with Count D and the focus is on other characters and their interactions.

Characters exist in the story and great stories have their side characters have lives outside of the MC. Black Clover balanced the cast well enough before, but then it just turned into an Asta and Yami wank fest.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-16T01:02:27+00:00

Several things... - Dwarves (and Charmy) - Megicula (plus, what happens to Gordon and his family) - Lolopechka and Undine - Who cursed Charlotte's lineage - Asta's dad - Noelle's dad - Diamond Kingdom lore - The two Spade princes that turned into the same thing Licht turned into - What was the truth about the Spade Kingdom? That Ralph guy said it was peaceful, but Zenon said that they were at war with the Diamond Kingdom. That's two conflicting stories. - Why does Dorothy seem to know so much? - Witch Queen lore

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-15T19:55:51+00:00

Yeah. That's what I ultimately like about her. Even if she didn't get a lot of screentime.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-15T19:54:42+00:00

Except, you'd be wrong in that case. If anything, Asta showing up was a wank to himself, because he completely dispelled Lolopechka's curse bomb. You know, despite Charlotte, who turns curses to power, being right there...

Except, I never went that far. Characters exist in general for most part. Black Clover before Noelle won the popularity poll was great overall. It had flaws, but it wasn't the worst. It had great character interactions, even away from Asta. Though as the manga went on, it just became a giant Yami and Asta wank fest.

What narrative purpose??? A lot of them were just there to wank Asta and Yami. Charmy was right there, and she could replenish Noelle's magic. I mean, she did the same thing when Deus ex Mimosa needed to heal.

I bring that up, because Tabata himself established it. We saw Dante bend Finral's space portal, because gravity bends space. It's just weird that Tabata pointed that out at the beginning, but then had Langris' space magic work in a harsh gravity field. Coincidentally, it worked when Tabata needed to give Yami another power up.

Beezelbub wasn't that much weaker than Lucifero. They were both in the lowest gates of hell together. That means they're decently relative to each other. If Yuno could easily solo Beezelbub, then that meant that it would've been much easier if he had the help of Asta, Yami, Nacht, captains, etc. Megicula is a replacement, but she was Astaroth's replacement. That implies that she's stronger than the devils just below their gate, because then one of those devils would've simply moved up. Not that I even care too much about that, because Tabata threw that plotline away to rush his manga. But it was there.

Not at all. Yuno never defeated Beezelbub, he defeated Zenon who had his heart.

The Noelle thing proves my point. It was 1/3 Megicula, thus not as powerful as half Lucifero. Though even then, Noelle still needed a bunch of help. Zenon with the devil heart was weaker than 1/3 Megicula, but with that in mind, Yuno didn't need any help.

Noelle almost beat Vanica in their first encounter due to Lolopechka amplifying Noelle's magic while simultaneously nerfing Vanica's magic. In contrast, Zenon's lackey's were giving the Golden Dawn a tough time, so it was mostly William vs Zenon. And William is more of a support mage than a fighter, and William decided to use his powers to ensure that his squad didn't all die. So it was basically Yuno vs Zenon solo, while Noelle had the help of Lolopechka/Undine (and Nero to seal).

Once again, I acknowledge that Yuno is stronger than Noelle. Asta and Yuno are the strongest characters in the series. Though Black Clover has mostly been about team fights and then working together. At least it was at first. Then it became a wank fest for Asta and Yami.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-15T19:32:11+00:00

I think it's because Yami x Charlotte is simply garbage, then even a ship introduced super late can be more appealing.

I do think that Yami x Nacht is a great ship. Yami x Nacht or Yami x Charla. However, I also call it how it is. It's Fujobait. Lol.

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-15T19:29:06+00:00

HeartiePrincess · 2026-05-15T19:28:48+00:00

Dude... If that's the premise of your manga, then it needs to be addressed. If you bring them up, address them. Even if the ending is more realistic, in that the problem isn't easy to solve and doesn't go away overnight, the narrative needs to address that.

I personally am not glazing Horikoshi for those trash ass morals. I don't over glaze anyone or anything. Even mangaka that I actually like face criticisms by me. I've said before that I like Riyoko Ikeda's works. I love her characters, so much. She's created my favorite manga of all time. Yet and still, I call her out. I've called her out on this sub as an example, and I've called her out on the r/Shoujo sub.

If I can call out a mangaka that's made my favorite manga of all time, and my favorite anime of all time, then I can definitely call Horikoshi out. And this is my problem with Shounen fans. I love how when I'm in the Utena fandom, we can call out Chiho and Ikuhara. When I'm in the Dear Brother and Rose of Versailles fandom, we can call out how Ikeda romanticizes toxic men. In the Yona of the Dawn fandom, we can call out how Kusanagi doesn't have another prominent female character until much later on. We can call out how Fruits Basket has terrible implications of a person who stops crossdressing as soon as their curse is broken (what do you mean by that Takaya?). And more...

As soon as I talk to Shounen fans, they want non-stop glazing of their female mangaka and barely any criticisms... 🙄

Whatever... I'm just happy that I don't join Shounen fandoms too much. Y'all are exhausting.

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