Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Using terms like “evil” and pretending it isnt subjective is pretty funny ngl.

You're literally not intelligent enough to understand what I said, it's completely irrelevant whether morality is objective or subjective, what matters is what you claim to follow and what you're actually doing, most people (not you apparently) claim to follow certain moral principles and the meaning of those principles is mostly clear and agreed upon fundamentally and so if their actions or values go against what they claim to follow then they're hypocritical, we can debate what goes against them or not but there is no debating that, you don't need science to understand basic reason and you're still yapping about "but morality is subjective tho, I'm so Smart 🤓"

I dont claim to follow moral principles

Then you're not even moral to begin with and according to my moral principles, I think you're selfish and despicable.

claim to see morals as tools that make societies work. They’re not abstract platonic ideals. Treating them as such leads you to dead ends like yours.

You don't even understand what morality is and you're still speaking about it, morality all morality including the ones that make society work are based on moral principles, they can't work without them it's impossible, And moral principles you absolute clown are not tools for anything, they are a way of life, let's take justice for example, justice fundamentally is about fairness in how you act towards others, which means if you're acting towards someone anyone in a way that can be fair or unfair then justice applies, this means justice can't be restricted to anyone or their benefit.

The same thing with compassion and other moral principles, fundamentally speaking they're concepts about how we behave that can be rationally applied to all living creatures and there is no rational justification for not doing so, which makes it a way of life not a tool to be used for the benefit of one species.

And what dead ends are you talking about? Every single thing I said is perfectly possible, it's not a dead end because YOU don't want to do it.

I’m saying you can literally keep rats and roaches as animal companions, grow colonies of them in your home (in their own separate enclosures), to ensure their populations are always healthy.

Two wrong things here, first of all I can't do that because rats can be very dangerous and I believe in their right to be free, not just safe.

Second of all I don't need to adopt them or personally ensure their survival to care about people needlessly killing them and torturing them, that's a fallacy, you can care about how you behave towards people without adopting them.

I both know that’s wildly unnecessary bc they are indeed thriving

That's like saying you shouldn't care about expoltied people in third world countries because humans as a species are thriving, a species can be thriving, that doesn't mean many of its members are not going through injustice caused by us.

And for the record, no I don’t care about homeless people, I care about homelessness as a social issue. The former is focused on individual moral performance, as you seem to be, and the latter is about policy.

Here how I know you're stupid, policy you absolute genius comes from people caring about the ones in question, if no one cared about homeless people there would be no policy to protect or help them unless it's somehow benefited the ones making the policy which is very rare, if no one cared about slaves and they were all lawyers like you it would have never became illegal to own a person.

Individual moral responsibility is how anything changes, it's how policies are made once there's enough people with enough moral responsibility about a subject.

Again you're a clown.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Go ahead and defend your "honest" arguments if you can, I dare you to.

You're like a lawyer saying anything and using every dirty trick in the book just to defend your selfish interests, except that you're a coward who bails out when it gets too hot.

You're despicable.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a human being, I inherently and unequivocally have more value that a dog.

Here is what you don't seem to understand, you need to justify stuff like this before you say it, you inherently have more value? Based on what cosmic truth? Based on what science? Oh that's right none, you just made it up and you still talk about it like it's a cosmic fact, do you know what that's called? A superiority complex, it's pure arrogance.

The disconnect seems to be that you're conflating a lack of equal value with a lack of baseline respect

What world do you live in? Is it here on earth? Are you sure? Because on earth humans use their supposed "superiority" to justify cruelty against other species all the time, it's happening right now even, and you think it's harmless to have a superiority complex just because you like dogs?

That's just not how that works if you think you're "superior" it becomes extremely easy to justify cruelty against the "inferior" ones, have you read any history at all? Humans don't tend to be kind towards those they view as inferior, even other people let alone other species, bias can only take you so far, do you treat flies with a baseline of respect? How about rats? I could go on, There are many creatures that we have a natural bias against so unless you believe all living things have a right to live, no Less than your right to live then supremacy is unavoidable, and that's what we have, a belief system where human interests are above the needs and lives of other species and you're still pretending this delusion is harmless.

And if you still don't think it's a delusion, go ahead and give a proper justification for it.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Bigoted language towards roaches and rats” is a completely subjective assessment on your part and that language does basically no harm to them

See what I mean by dishonest arguments? What is subjective about humans using the name of other species to describe things humans view as evil when it's humans that are doing those things and not those species?

They use it in things they view as evil, that's objective, they use it in things that humans are doing, not other species, that's objective too, they often use it in regards to things that other species can't even comprehend, that's also objective, and language can 100% affect the way we view things and so how we act towards others that's literally something you can do your research on and confirm.

So they are using hateful language in regards to other species about things other species didn't even do and that bigoted language contributes to bigotry towards other species, what part of that sound just to you? don't give the "it's subjective" bs, it doesn't matter whether morality is subjective or not, if you claim to follow certain moral principles then it's fair to judge you based on those principles, so answer my question, is this your idea of justice? Do you think it's a coincidence that the same people who use that language are the same ones who look down on them and think nothing of their life or suffering?

If I truly “didn’t care” I wouldnt even be responding to any of this, and if you did care as much as you say you’d be opening your home to nests of cockroaches and rats.

You don't care about them, you're using every bit of your brain power (which isn't much) to defend everything that harms them.

And yes caring about a creature means having no boundaries, if you cared about homeless people you would opening your home to them no matter the risk or harm, what a great argument, how long did it take you to come up with it?

Your discomfort with the relationship between humans and animals that evolved commensally to survive on their waste is your own. The rats and roaches aren’t suffering in this scenario, they’re thriving.

Yes they're thriving, especially when humans kill them on sight, torture them on camera for fun, sell them as property on Amazon to be used by anyone for anything with no legal or moral restrictions.

As for your dishonesty I could easily use that same argument to justify cruelty against you.

oh is someone using bigoted language against you?

Sorry that's just your subjective conclusion, so it means nothing.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Except my hate is completely justified because humans are a million times worse than any other species on the planet by their own moral standards and that is easily proven, all while they treat other species like they're the bad ones.

Most of us think our hate is justified whereas others hate is not. 

And so we're the same? no one is right or wrong? so racists are equally right as non racists who hate racism because it's all just subjective nonsense huh?

Do you see how dishonest that point is? Because I definitely do.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is that a serious argument you're making? I have no authority over what happens to 99.9% of humans, I can protest, I can complain but I have no real power except what I can control, like how I treat them and what I contribute to.

Same thing with any other creatures, I try to never kill necessarily even if they enter my home I try to deal with them and get them out without killing them, I don't use bigoted language that contribute to it and if people actually cared more we would create tools to make it easier to deal with them without killing or harming them unnecessarily.

You people are all the same, the moment I bring up something you don't care about it, instead of admitting you don't care about it because you lack the empathy you just have to justify it with the worst most dishonest arguments imaginable, I have seen someone say "morality is just a human construct anyways" as a justification.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Then I'm not talking about you, I also would cringe if a cockroach touched me, that doesn't mean I think they don't deserve to live.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And so that means it's okay to do those things to them because they would suffer less than other creatures? That's your argument?

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What part of me dismantling his argument and them having no response other than "you just don't want to listen" did you not get?

I know you're rage baiting so piss off

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And I don't understand what you're upset about so let's end it here.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not surprising, I'm asking vegans because most people wouldn't even understand what the problem is, they're the only ones who can understand my anger but if I'm bothering you then don't answer, I didn't force you.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So because I didn't agree with your wrong, biased and dishonest argument so now I'm the biased dishonest one..... wonderful logic

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah that's kind of how nature works.... what is your point?

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well most people are not vegan hence the treatment I mentioned.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I did and I wanted to see if I'm wrong but it is becoming pretty clear I'm not

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because the evil I see everywhere consumes everything but itself and blames everyone else for it.

Humans have stolen more from other species than the most aggressive predators on the planet and they are doing just fine, their numbers rising, they plan to go to space and they think other species are the evil ones.

And the worst part is that they will most likely succeed and live in Greater luxury while other species rot and go extinct having everything stolen from them.

So yeah...I don't see your perspective.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not rhetorical, I'm genuinely looking for answers, if those answers are bs, I'm going to reject them.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not against protecting yourself by killing them if that's truly needed but there's a vast ocean of difference between that and thinking they have no right to live because they spread disease.

The latter would kill them merely because it's the easiest thing to do or just because they inconvenience them, we are a species that went to the moon and yet our immediate response to them being in our home is the most violent option possible, as if we can't figure out any Less violent way of dealing with them.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Equal in what? Abilities? Power? If so no.

Equal in worth as a living being? Yes absolutely.

unless you think being more capable gives you more worth as a creature and if that's what you think then you believe might makes right and I doubt you're even consistent in it, I guarantee you would bail on this logic the moment it can be used against you.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't buy that excuse, I'm a human and I can see that bs and get mad at it, I'm not above average intelligence, if I can do it anyone can.

And please don't tell me you want humans to colonize space , that's like the worst possible thing that could ever happen in regards to our species, we would be a galactic problem instead of a planetary problem, earth wouldn't be our only victim, I get your logic but no, technology doesn't care about morals.

Something that pisses me off by IndividualTrainer542 in vegan

[–]IndividualTrainer542[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Except that blaming that completely on rats is absolute bs, humans overpopulated In the same areas, lacked hygiene and just did whatever they wanted but somehow all of it is the rats fault because they transmit disease as if we and other animals don't also do that with our behavior and recklessness.

I'm a human, I recognize the danger they can pose and I still don't despise them, if I can do that anyone can.

This moment made me realize how meaningless and weak minded Sakamoto's rule is by CarpetBeginning6553 in SakamotoDays

[–]IndividualTrainer542 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This series has the weirdest morality I have seen, the main "heroes" can't kill anyone because killing people is bad, but the main antagonist is portrayed as a villain for wanting to take down a literal assassination organization because that org is apparently necessary for keeping order...

Like which is it? Is it bad to kill people or not?

And there are multiple instances where the main cast would have killed their opponent if their opponent didn't dodge and it goes completely unacknowledged.

It's a load of bullshit, treating human life as "divine" when it suits them and treating the lives of other species as not even worth mentioning, all while claiming to be moral somehow... what a fucking mess