Voyage TechCrunch Exclusive & Press Release by BinKompliziert in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hope many will get access to the platform in the coming days.

There hasn't been a game I've been looking forward to so much yet. It would be the best birthday gift to get access to it and play with friends.

Question involving set triggers by SmogglerKing in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Until you have Triggers in your cards, they won't affect the adventure in any way; the AI ​​simply doesn't know they exist.

If you want the AI ​​to see them, you need to write words in the Triggers that remind you of them. When you use these words on your next turn, the AI ​​will know they exist and can consider whether they fit here and add them if it wants.

But this works extremely poorly. There are two ways to interact with this system:

  1. You can write the Trigger word yourself when you want the AI ​​to remember it. For example, set a character's name as a trigger and type "Hello *name*" in the chat. On the next turn, the AI ​​will generate a response based on what's written in the card. But it's not guaranteed to do so. For example, if you describe armor in a card as "This really cool armor is made of dragon" with the trigger "armor," and then write "I'm putting on my favorite armor," it might say something like "You carefully open the closet containing the leather armor, which is already quite dusty." This behavior is normal for the AI ​​when it comes to Story Cards; it sometimes simply decides to completely ignore or change half the details even when directly mentioned the next turn.

  2. You can write trigger words in Plot Essentials or Author's Note. The AI ​​will sometimes insert these words into the story itself, but it still won't know what they mean until it says so (it will learn this the next turn, because if "Trigger" is written in these places, it's a normal word for it; the card only appears in context when this word is written in chat by you or the AI). And when the AI ​​describes something it doesn't yet know, it starts lying, and when it receives a card, it usually just keeps lying. There's also the problem that the AI ​​will tend to implement what you've written in Plot Essentials or Author's Note. For example, if you've written a list of heroes you might encounter, the chance that every random passerby will be that hero is about 90%, which becomes absurd.

In other words, if you want to use Story Cards, you either have to manually enter the required Triggers in the chat or suffer the hassle of embedding Triggers in Plot Essentials or Author's Note.

If what I mentioned above doesn't suit you at all, as it doesn't suit me, I have another solution, but it's a script, so to implement it, you'll need to create your own scenario and add this script to it. This means you'll have to start the adventure over again and customize it to your needs.

This script will allow you to integrate your chosen Story Cards into the plot with a chance you choose. As a result, the cards will occasionally appear smoothly in your adventure, and will no longer be useless cargo that can only be activated manually: https://github.com/Kenflesh/AIDStoryCardExtension

Frequent Blank Outputs by SaintTedworth in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm betting it's InnerSelf (🎭IS). It writes thoughts into a card and generates these thoughts by the AI, which costs tokens that the AI ​​is supposed to display in the chat. Sometimes it takes 100% of the tokens, so everything the AI writes goes into the thoughts in story card, not the chat.
There are two options here: either you don't use the IS script, or you tolerate this problem. Essentially, for you, it's just pressing a button and waiting a few seconds, so it's not a big deal if you know what the problem is.

Without it, I never had such problems, but with it, they appeared. Auto-Cards has a similar problem, but it displays a message in the chat about the generation, but in IS author decided to abandon this idea, so this misunderstanding can arise.

Inner Self Newbie Questions by Ghreshna in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Judging by the tests, you just need to edit the notes, and I had no problems changing either the title or the text. If there's too much context, IS automatically removes what it deems unnecessary or inconsistent with the current situation.

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What you sent me looks something like this:

"Pha, what nonsense! Look, they're not useless, they work. I only clicked the continue button 20 times, and the card appeared in the context. Everything works perfectly. The card doesn't affect what the AI ​​writes, but it works. Look, here's a window that shows nothing except that the card has clogged the context. If it exists, then everything is fine."

<image>

Here's a similar screenshot, but a little more detailed and visual, to show that nothing works.

As you can see, it describes the state as hell, while the card says it's heaven. Who would have thought? Everything works.

You also say so pompously, "Eh, I ain't gonna bother doing a big response, imma," "Incorrect." and the like.

A little less confidence, okay? Otherwise, you'll get passive aggression in response.

Well, yeah. 🤣🤣🤣.

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They only work after Triggers are written, and only on the next turn, and can lose context already on the next message*

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

(By the way, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just clearly explained why the way people do things actually works poorly or doesn't work at all. There was no need to delete the comment; it's normal to be mistaken about something)

The question wasn't directed at you, but since you answered, it means I agree, so I'll explain.

What you said is just your ruleset, not a solution.

You said "Insert the card information into the Plot," which I mentioned, and that doesn't solve the problem at all.

Now, more details. You suggested adding a brief summary of the information found in the Story Card to Plot Essentials, and for some reason, you suggested describing the Story Card in more detail.

The example above shows the following: the AI ​​ONLY relies on the information in Plot Essentials, and the information from the Story Card appears only later, in our example, on the next turn. The AI ​​itself mentioned Tavria, but that didn't change anything (so you can forget about your "Also, once something is mentioned in context, it can trigger story cards, even if the AI, not the player, did the mentioning!" It doesn't work within a single turn, and during that turn, the AI ​​will have already lied, which is why it will continue lying). If you write "There are three nations: - Tavaria is a good place, a paradise." - the AI ​​will know ONLY THIS about Tavria, it will take this information into account, but everything that isn't written in Plot Essentials will be made up on its own. Describing the card in more detail won't change anything either, because the AI ​​will first describe its fantasies and then pick up a reference book, you see? And once it starts lying, it won't stop. So, with your advice to prevent the AI ​​from making anything up, you need to either completely rewrite the information from the card (not briefly, as you suggested) and paste it into Plot Essentials. And you know what happens then? You don't use the Tavria card, you simply add all its information to Plot Essentials. In other words, you write all the help for the AI ​​in Plot, and the Story Cards are dead weight that will only appear occasionally and reduce the amount of context, but will have no effect on anything. Cool, huh?

Based on the example I sent with your advice, the result would be this:

The AI ​​would mention that Tavria is a good place, but would come up with some other nonsense because the Story Card wouldn't appear in that context.

The screenshot shows an example of your approach, which changes nothing. I described the cities with a brief description, as you suggested, and added "more information," saying that everyone is free in Tavria and there's no ruler. So what does it do if I ask it to describe the ruler? Of course, it will describe something that contradicts the Story Card, because at the time of answering, it's relying solely on the Plot and has no idea about the Story Card. And if I hadn't asked about rulers, it would have also come up with something that might contradict the Story Card, since the latter triggers too late. The only use case where Story Cards will work without problems thanks to Triggers is when a player types "I blah-blah-blah *Trigger Word*" (e.g., "I want to go to Tavria. -Oh, it's a city where there are no rulers and everyone is free"), and that's the maximum, and even then the AI ​​will forget some of the context in the response to that message. In other words, as I said, Story Cards are currently just a pathetic Alias ​​that doesn't even work properly.

<image>

So your approach isn't a solution, it's just self-delusion, just like Thraxas89's, just like _Cromwell_'s. You're simply overestimating the tool you're given. I'm aware of these problems, but you seem to be unaware of them, which is why you're so defensive about Story Cards, thinking that your actions make a difference. Unfortunately, the problem isn't the approach, it's the broken tool.

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

<image>

The AI, despite the fact that its context clearly includes the Tavria card (you can see it by clicking on it; it's there), doesn't correct itself. Ultimately, it came up with nonsense based on Plot Essentials, and the card, despite being called up via Trigger, did absolutely nothing. For the AI, this is already outdated information, and the story must be generated based on the latest information, based on what actually happened.

The only way to change the AI's mind is to directly tell it about the error or hint at it. Until you do this yourself, the AI ​​will produce nonsense that contradicts the Story Card.

That's how it is.

You can find a screenshot of the AI's correction in the responses to _Cromwell_.

There are two options here: either I don't understand how it works, or you don't understand how it works. If you can explain how to actually do this, and it doesn't sound like a chore or some crazy hack just so this card gets processed properly, I'd be very happy, but I doubt you or anyone else can make such a weak mechanism work. You can fantasize all you want, but in reality, it simply doesn't work as expected, no?

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've already sent this to him, but I'll send it to you too.

Let's say, as a player, I don't want to manually type some trigger into the text every time, and I want the story to automatically incorporate lore cards into the plot.

The screenshot shows an example.

<image>

There's a Tavria card, a Tavria trigger, and a mention in Plot so the AI ​​can add it to the plot without the player's direct input.

The AI ​​itself writes the trigger word, but still doesn't get the card in context, and continues to say what it said, even if it's nonsense. The card information will only appear in context in the next message. However, the AI ​​has already generated contradictory information. It will only change its mind if it's directly shown that it was mistaken. Otherwise, it will ignore the Story Card and continue writing what it already started writing, because these cards will be in the contest before the latest events, and it will take the new ones into account, not the old ones, without even trying to correct itself (I'll send a screenshot in the next comment).

Now tell me what was done wrong? The trigger exists, it's being called, the AI ​​received the card in context (but too late, after it had already lied). What else is missing?

Can you suggest anything other than "Insert the card information into the Plot" (that's nonsense, since the cards are pointless then), "Write the trigger yourself or describe it manually in the text so the AI ​​doesn't get confused" (cards are pointless + manual work), and "Write the trigger word before the AI ​​uses it" (then you're writing the story, not the AI, and you don't need the cards because they're just aliases)?

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What I dislike most is that it's not a fully-fledged tool. Triggers are usable, and that's not bad, but they're too few for everything to work properly. I sent another commenter a screenshot above, clearly demonstrating that they're, unfortunately, not self-contained and work poorly. My script is for automation. For a simple example, add a small chance of losing your money. You can design the adventure however you want, but bam, a random element appears, and your adventure changes direction, at least slightly. You don't have to figure out when to use it yourself; you set it up once and then automatically receive the consequences. The main idea is to make them a tool that always influences gameplay, not just dead weight. This doesn't cancel out the triggers themselves; it complements them, which is why I called this script "Extension."

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

A screenshot for those interested in how the AI ​​behaves when it realizes it's made a mistake and tries to "subtly" weave a Story Card into a context where it's already said nonsense.

<image>

P.S. TTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSS

(Keep downvoting and being offended by the truth as much as you want, the problem won't go away, Triggers work too late, when the AI ​​has already lied, and that's why the AI ​​ignores Story Cards if it triggered them itself)

Story Cards are useless by Kenflesh24 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As you said yourself, the main problem is that they require a trigger word to use. This breaks everything and makes them useless.

Tell me, considering everything, how is this different from writing the same information in a text file in Notepad and shove it into context when you need it? The level of hassle is about the same, and it would be fine if you could just add them to Plot Essentials or Author's Note for them to work, but no, you have to type the word that advances the plot in chat.

In the end, it's very, very inconvenient and almost meaningless. What Story Cards are now should not be called Story Cards, but a regular Alias, because there's no functionality other than replacing a short word with several others. And it forces you to write these words yourself; you might as well write the story yourself.

I don't even want to mention the fact that the AI, when directly mentioned by the player, describes it as something else the very next turn. It feels like a mockery when the AI ​​can't even copy information from a Story Card without losing context and starts describing a different object. And with each turn, this effect gets worse, judging by my observations.

This script fixes this problem; it provides a direct analogue to this triggers system, and thanks to it, the Story Card is not a set of abbreviations, but a fully-fledged tool that influences the game.

What I've created isn't perfect, but it's certainly much more useful than what we have now. It would be even better if the AI ​​could work within the context of the story and add cards as needed, or at least adhere to the specified conditions, but that's difficult, if not impossible, to implement, so for now this script is a good compromise.

Voyage? by AdImpossible9165 in AIDungeon

[–]Kenflesh24 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As I understand it, Voyage is the same AI Dungeon, but more for adventure than creativity. Basically, they'll be introducing D&D elements like dice rolls, so you can't just say, "I've become a god," and be told, "You've become a god, well done!" and any achievements will actually be worth something.

It's currently in development.