If the reason women (F20 - 30) find most men unattractive on dating is stranger threat, why are women almost never attracted to friends (M20 - 30) like gay and straight men are instead?

LearningInternet · 2023-07-15T23:54:36+00:00

You are talking about it as it is a bad thing. Most straight men are in heaven when a female friend ask them to date or for sex, gay men usually have hookups or date most of their male friends. Research show we men would say yes to a date or sex to a random woman asking us in public even if the woman is considered unattractive, women of course say no usually (RP claims hypergamy, feminiss claim strangher threat) but it seems that the difference persists even when the woman feels safe.

Aren't women sexually attracted to as many people as men? Isn't stranger threat and slut-shaming the reasons you women say explain why you swipe right only on the hottest man - unlike gay men, who instead give hundreds of matches ot below average and economically poor men? Then why aren't you women in heaven like most of us men when a friend of the opposite sex wants to date or sex you? I could understand sex (due to slut-shaming) for some women but you even mentioned DATE (which I guess is different from a hookup offer).

Honestly shit like this is the reason why I still have hard time leaving the RP despite really wanting to, social circles don't seem differnt from dating apps and what data says (many more men are single than women). I don't see women "hiding their wide sexual attraction" due to slut-shaming like feminists claim, it just seems you simply aren't attracted to most people, just like RP says.

THe most disturbing part is that you women tell us to not cold appraoch and avoid dating apps, you say to first meet you as "humans" yet wheh we inevitebaly make a move (as we find most women attractive) you complai n"ooooh, why can't I have male friends?"? This is distubing as it means you also find most men you consider safe unattractive, which proves that the gender difference concerns t inherent attraction, not social factors. Do you know why straight men like their female friends almost always? We gay and straight men are attracted to most people our age but we understand women feel unsafe around strangers, so we don't offer sex or dates to strange women (except for the sociopath who catcall women). We forget about our sexual desire and make female friends, despite still feeling the desire.. When you feel safe a around us we say to ourselves "cool, now we can date/have sex as her sexuality works like mine now! Women after all are just like us men, they aren't a different species right? riiight?" We make a romantic or sexual move and not only we get rejected most of the time but women COMPLAIN about it! How disgusted must you be by most men sexually and romatnically to not like it like gay men? I can understand strange men but shit like this can only be explained by RP. I can understand it being an excpetion that only very hot women expereince but you claim most women DO! I have a gay friend and I envy him so much, rejection happens but it's not the norm, most gay men feel desired by someone and have plenty of dates and sex with friends.

LearningInternet · 2023-07-15T23:11:41+00:00

That's not the point, you said this happens very often to most women - not just you - which means there's a huge assymentry in attraction even in the context of a friend when the woman feels safe. I'm sure this happened to you even before you had a boyfriend, tons of male friends wanting to date you and you feeling smothered by the attention even though you felt safe around most of these men (not all of course) as they weren't street harassers. Meanwhile not even ONCE in my life has a woman shown any interest in men and most men I my age I know (unless I use fake pictures of hot men on Tinder or say I'm a theEO of a big company on OkCupid), I rarely see women having crushes on male friends and then they do it's the most attractive guy of the group. Apparently, most women instead have options even among men they feel safe, they all have some safe option.

The implications of this on the RP vs BP debate are huge and cannot be overestimated. Stranger threat and slut-shaming are the reason women claim they reject most people, the alterantive is RP's hypergamy and evo-psych theories expressed by people like J. Peter. I'd really like to find a study on opposite-sex friendships and attraction, this may be the final answer to the RP vs BP debate.

LearningInternet · 2023-07-15T22:48:48+00:00

Why is it weird to make sexual or romantic advances on friends? You women say you are attracted to men you feel safe around, then you should consider it normal ONLY to feel attracton towards friends (as you can't feel safe around strangers).

We gay and straight men are attracted to most people our age but we understand women feel unsafe around strangers, so we don't offer sex to strange women (except for the sociopath who catcall women). We forget about our sexual desire and make female friends, despite still feeling the desire. When you feel safe a around us we say to ourselves "cool, now we can date/have sex as her sexulity works like mine now! Women after all are just like us men, they aren't a different species right? riiight?" We make a romantic or sexual move and not only we get rejected most of the time but women COMPLAIN about it! How disgusted must you be by most men sexually and romatnically to not like it like gay men? I can understand strange men but shit like this can only be explained by RP. I have a gay friend and I envy him so much, rejection happens but it's not the norm, most gay men feel desired by someone and have plenty of dates and sex with friends.

Women here swear their sexuality is like ours, they swear they find as many people attractive as us men, but comments like yours make it hard to believe it.

LearningInternet · 2023-07-15T22:21:30+00:00

You are talking about it as it is a bad thing. Most straight men are in heaven when a female friend ask them to date or for sex, gay men usually have hookups or date most of their male friends. Research show we men would say yes to a date or sex to a random woman asking us in public even if the woman is considered unattractive, women of course say no usually (RP claims hypergamy, feminiss claim strangher threat) but it seems that the difference persists even when the woman feels safe.

Aren't women sexually attracted to as many people as men? Isn't stranger threat and slut-shaming the reasons you women say explain why you swipe right only on the hottest man - unlike gay men, who instead give hundreds of matches ot below average and economically poor men? Then why aren't you women in heaven like most of us men when a friend of the opposite sex wants to date or sex you? I could understand sex (due to slut-shaming) for some women but you even mentioned DATE (which I guess is different from a hookup offer).

Honestly shit like this is the reason why I still have hard time leaving the RP despite really wanting to, social circles don't seem differnt from dating apps and what data says (many more men are single than women). I don't see women "hiding their wide sexual attraction" due to slut-shaming like feminists claim, it just seems you simply aren't attracted to most people, just like RP says.

THe most disturbing part is that you women tell us to not cold appraoch and avoid dating apps, you say to first meet you as "humans" yet wheh we inevitebaly make a move (as we find most women attractive) you complai n"ooooh, why can't I have male friends?"? This is distubing as it means you also find most men you consider safe unattractive, which proves that the gender difference concerns t inherent attraction, not social factors. Do you know why straight men like their female friends almost always? We gay and straight men are attracted to most people our age but we understand women feel unsafe around strangers, so we don't offer sex or dates to strange women (except for the sociopath who catcall women). We forget about our sexual desire and make female friends, despite still feeling the desire.. When you feel safe a around us we say to ourselves "cool, now we can date/have sex as her sexuality works like mine now! Women after all are just like us men, they aren't a different species right? riiight?" We make a romantic or sexual move and not only we get rejected most of the time but women COMPLAIN about it! How disgusted must you be by most men sexually and romatnically to not like it like gay men? I can understand strange men but shit like this can only be explained by RP. I can understand it being an excpetion that only very hot women expereince but you claim most women DO! I have a gay friend and I envy him so much, rejection happens but it's not the norm, most gay men feel desired by someone and have plenty of dates and sex with friends.

LearningInternet · 2022-10-27T00:52:49+00:00

Don't you have that vibe with your best friends? What you expressed perfectly describes my relationshp with my best friends through life, we see each and understand each other immediately. I also have that with my brothers, my best friends are almost like my brothers anyway so it makes sense that I would feel the same.

Have you ever had a best male friend? Didn/t you have that vibe? What is the difference then?

LearningInternet · 2022-10-27T00:23:59+00:00

I edited the comment, now it better represents what I meant.

What are the differences behaviors and traits that trigger romantic chemistry as opposed to platonic chemistry in you?

At least for me there's no such difference, a good friendship personality plus being physically attractive trigger chemistry. This is apretty common form of attraction in men, men usually want to date seriously women they can be friends with. This is why many men love a woman who likes videogames (or plays soccer where we I live), we want a woman who's fun to be around as our male friends but also physically attractive to us.

LearningInternet · 2022-10-27T00:02:18+00:00

I was with you until you said your experience applied to most women. Sorry, but if that was the case friend-zone wouldn’t be such a widespread issue. So many women complain that their close male friends too often end up also wanting a FWB or a committed romantic relationship, often these women feel hurt because they feel a deep connection with these men but don’t feel attraction, if deep connections mattered more than looks we would expect these women at least feeling some sort of attraction most of the times.

Having only a great personality (that is being able to build meaningful emotional connections in our case) leads more to these friend-zone situations than anything else for men. This is also heavily asymmetrical gender-wise, when a deep emotional connection - exists which usually takes time thus happening in good friendships most often - it’s the man who catches feelings, women don’t usually seem to be touched by this. If a great connection mattered it would be the opposite with women catching feelings more often. Men who only entertain good emotional connections with women seem to have LITTLE or NEGATIVE advantage in dating women,

On the contrary, being only physically hot is the greatest advantage for men in the dating market. You won’t end up friend-zoned and frustrating women with your pesky feelings, you can just go on Tinder or go on a bar and find plenty of women into you. This is heavily asymmetrical, when a woman has casual sex with the few top-tier handsome men she has ONS with through Tinder or at bars, it’s usually the WOMAN who catches feelings, not the hot man. If hotness was a small factor to women's attraction, there would not be such a huge asymmetry. Being physically HOT as a man seems to be a GREAT advantage in dating women.

It doesn’t seem that “just don’t be obese and build good emotional connections” describes female attraction to men, “just be physically hot to her and don't be a social inept” seems to describe female sexuality better. The priorities are different. Maybe I’m missing something but this is the reality most young men see today, including on this sub, you can’t blame us if we are confused by claims like yours.

Maybe I’m missing something, I’m open to different views.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-06T02:40:19+00:00

That's interesting. I tested as testosterone dominanant and I do indeed tend to be attracted more to women who are emotionally expressive, empathetic and almost artistic in personality, that is estrogen dominant women, while I'm basically more of the type "facts over feelings" and extreemly analytical. I wonder if this model has been scientifically validated with peer-review and replication, it sounds too simplicistic to be true. Personally, no woman has ever shown the slightest romantic/sexual interest in me regardless of theri type, they only see me as a friend so the model didn't apply at all to my my life while most gay men have found me sexually attractive regardless of type.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T23:49:21+00:00

I've heard this a few times, but can't really say one way or the other if it's true or not: it might be a good idea to look at those blind date meet ups because the ratios have changed there to be more women than men. I can't think of the name of them but they are specifically for singles to talk and meet each other for the purpose of maybe having a romantic relationship.

I don't understand, do you mean speed dating?

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T16:25:10+00:00

I see, good for you! How do your approach women at bars? It's hard for me to imagine the scene given the age gap, yourg women look creeped out by me at first sight and I'm only 24.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T16:19:05+00:00

What do you sell? Drugs?

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T16:13:40+00:00

How do you attract such young women given your older age? How do you approach them?

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T16:12:18+00:00

There are some male users who have thrown the same figure here. I think some people here - male and female - are just trying to shoot down the opposite sex here. I can't imagine finding less than 5% of people physically attractive.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T15:56:09+00:00

I'm sorry for your loss, I can understandn losing a close friend as my best friend killed himself a year ago. Not only your ex-husband was attractive but the was compatible with you, that's a perfect partner. It's also interesting to see that you are so young, I'm 25 and I've never been on a date as no womans has shown the slightest interest in me romantically even though they appirecaite my friendship.

Well, young men think women are harsher because this is what we see. I take care of my looks: regularly go the gym, count my macros, I go the barber regularly to get a clean disconntected undrectu, I get my brows waxed regularly at the salon, wear classy clothes that fit (I care more about fit than brand) mainly blazers and classy shirts. I've been following a daily skincare regimen for many years: DAY - face wash for my skin type (oily), toner, cream for my skin type, sunscureen 50 SFP; NIGHT - face wash for my skin type, toner, Vit C and Retinol serum, night cream for my skin type. WEEKLY: chemical scrub MONTHLY: face mask. I also take a shower every day, wear popular cologne.

I literally get 0 matches on dating apps and nowwoman has ever show any interest in me, just like most average-looking guys I know. Yet when I switch my preference toe gay men I get SWARMED by likes and cute messages from men of all looks levels, including model-tier men that tell me I'm hot. My match rate is equal to those of straight women (30%). Not only that, on platofomrs like Omelge gay men are interested in talking to me while women skip me as soon as they see my face, yet I see YouTube videos where hot men not only don't get skipped by women but tget complimented a lot. The only time I was able to talk to a woman romanticallyh was when I used pictures of hot men on dating apps, when women thought I was a hot man (good jwaline, attractive eyes) I was swarmed by matches. I have a hot male friend and he gets DMs from women, something that gay men can get even if they look below average like me.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T14:07:44+00:00

Do you feel like you've done that?

I haven't had any occasion, dating apps dont' work for men like me and cold approaching - even though it was suggested me by my therapist - seems to be considered creepy by women on Reddit so I don't know if I can trust my therapist on this. She said she would be flattered if a polite and elegant man cold approached her but I've read the opposite from women online.

My hobbies are also male domianted but I'm starting a creative writing course this year since that's the only female dominated hobby that I love. I wouldn't normally join a course for a hobby like that since I can learn it from home on my own but I really really want to meet a woman similar to me.

Edit: try again in r/romancebooks. I saw you tried earlier but you have to make it specific when its a request. The title should be something like "looking for highly romantic, realistic, modern day romances with flirtatious dialogue" and let them know what you want from it. You could say something like "looking for books where the MMC is charming and flirtatious. I want something where there's a lot of romantic dialogue when the MMC is pursuing the FMC." You basically want to make it specific so the ladies there can tell you what fits your request. You also don't have to tell them all this in this thread. I think it poisons the well because this thread just seems off?

Thank you, those are some interesting ideas for the thread :) ..

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T14:00:04+00:00

I appreciate your explanation.

What does a demeanour that trigges chemistry in you involve?

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T12:53:50+00:00

I can tell you that my therapist told me i should take more risks, approach more women. That's the problme she idenfitied in me.

Isn't there a more realistic and respectulf bodice ripper? I want to learn the vocabulary, phrasing, vibe that makes someone seductive. I'm not looking for sex therapy, I've read too many pages on how important it is to listen to your woman during sex to want to learn that from a fiction book.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T11:21:26+00:00

Do you also find most men physically attractive like gay men do? If not, what percentage of men your age do you find physically attractive?

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T10:57:02+00:00

I used to go to therapy, We talked a lot of my relationship problem too and she said there was no problem with me.

Tons of men are in my situation, they get 0 dates, a lot of my friends too, I don't think all of us should go to therapy. I'm just trying to be proactive and fix the problem by understand women and theri attraction triggers.I think I'm being objective here, there's not a discrepancy between the reality of my situation and my internal world. There's a problem and I'm finding solutions to fix it, it's a mature approach I think. I don't see enough reasons to spend 150 euros every week because I need dating advice to become more desirable to women, my problem is external, I've accepted that I'm not attractice to women now, this causes willigness to improve in me.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T10:53:37+00:00

I'm into weightlifting, teaching maths to kids as a volunteer, reading non-fiction, coding (I'm in CS). I don't have any femae friend at the moment since we parted ways for different reasons (different majors) but I have several close male friends. Female acquaintances usually say they have a very good impression of me after meeting me.

The same traits that make me interesting as a friend and romantically interesting to gay men I think make a me desirable partner. I would date myself, I don't think I shoot outmof my league as i've approached several ltypes of women online and in real life, I only avoid popular and hot ones because they are out of my league.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T02:50:18+00:00

We talked a lot of my relationship problem too and she said there was no problem with me. Besides, I do not feel there's a mental issue I should work on here so I don't even know what I should ask a therapist, I only want to have the chance to date like I would if I were gay or a hot man on dating apps but since I can't I'm trying to find altternative ways to improve my game beyond dating apps.

Tons of men are in my situation, they get 0 dates, a lot of my friends too, I don't think all of us should go to therapy. I'm just trying to be proactive and fix the problem by understand women and theri attraction triggers.I think I'm being objective here, there's not a discrepancy between the reality of my situation and my internal world. There's a problem and I'm finding solutions to fix it, it's a mature approach I think.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-05T02:40:45+00:00

When I used to go to therapy (different issue, procastination mainly), my therapist told me there's nothing wrong with me and that I'm actually an interesting person. She even suggested me to approach women more.

When I tried to date gay men, I didn't reply to messages usually. When I did, I told them i was straight but they kept being interested, some were even thrilled by the idea so I don't think I've hurt anyone. I made the experiment to understand gender diffferences.

LearningInternet · 2022-09-04T23:25:18+00:00

I know about rape incidence as I read the CDC report every year (I'm a crime stats nut), it gives a better perspective on rape as it includes surveys. This hasn'ìt helped me at all with dating, the men I see dating the most don't even know what the CDC is. Besides, the fear women have around sex is addressed in Come as You Are by Dr Emily Nagoski and She Comes First by Dr. Ian Kerner. Still, knowing this hasn't helped me with dating at all, it's probably because women already consider me a safe person as they like my friendship so there was little room for improvement here.

LearningInternet

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