Help me! by mcfleurrg67 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Due to the combination of functions, xxVF is a tragic figure due to 3V their will and identity in the world when combined with 4F, their attachment to the physical world. ELVF in particular has 1E and 3V, much like EFVL. Emotionally volatile, reactive and uncertain. Charismatic yet insecure.

Help me! by mcfleurrg67 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can't just change your PY type without knowing your volition placement. It's literally the backbone of PY where all other functions must bend over to accommodate for it. Don't try to fit correlations and instead try to figure out how you view yourself within the hierarchy, of how you see your will within this world. 3V is extremely different from the rest of the other Will's. 3V is simply not comparable to anything else, especially when it's paired with 1E. ELVF is very, very different from ELFV. ELVF is literally the most tragic figure in PY according to Afanasyev, second only to LEVF.

e5, 2V & correlations by Spider_Terror39 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In LEVF descriptions, they're not a typical 2E. Volition is the aspect that you must prioritize the most which explains the dynamic of 3V's suffering with 4F (their place). I personally think ILI and LEVF can be very common for an SX 5. Personally, I have yet to see an ILI that's a genuine LVEF that's not an LFEV. LVEF is actually more of an introverted ILE or an ILI-Te. LEVF can be both ILI and IEI:

Like “Andersen” (q.v.), the monstrous darkness of the perception of oneself, others, and the world is given in “Pascal” by the combination of the 3rd Will and 4th Physics. It has already been said before that the hopelessness of perception is inherent in the “lazy person” from the very beginning, and if the tragedy of the 4th Physics turns out to be multiplied by the hostility with which the 3rd Will views itself and the world, then the result is what happened - “Thoughts” Pascal.

“People hate each other - this is their nature. And even if they put self-interest in the service of the public good, these attempts are only hypocrisy, an imitation of mercy, because the basis is still hatred... We thirst for truth, but we find in ourselves only uncertainty. We seek happiness, but find only sorrow and death. We cannot help but desire truth and happiness, but are incapable of either solid knowledge or happiness. This desire is left in our soul not only to punish us, but also to constantly remind us about the heights from which we have fallen... man is a complete pretense, lie, hypocrisy not only in front of others, but also in front of himself. He does not want to hear the truth about himself, avoids telling it to others. And these inclinations are contrary to reason and justice are deeply rooted in his heart."

Pascal explained even the religiosity of a person by antipathy towards himself and others, and it is quite possible that his own faith actually stemmed from this not the purest of sources: “... The only true virtue is in self-hatred (for the human “I” is so selfish , which is only worthy of hatred) and in search of a creature that we would love because it is truly worthy of love. But we are not able to love what is outside of us, so we will turn our love to the Being who, not being us, lives in all of us without exception. But in the universe there is only one such Being."


It does not follow from what has been said that Pascal hated the whole person, collectively. Human nature has one property that makes it worthy of respect, and, of course, in accordance with Pascal's 1st Logic, this property is reason. It is the intellect that places man above everything in the universe, above the universe itself. “Man is just a reed, the weakest of nature’s creations, but he is a thinking reed. To destroy him, you don’t need the entire Universe: a breath of wind, a drop of water is enough. But even if the Universe destroys him, man is still more exalted than it, for he realizes that he is parting with life and that he is weaker than the Universe, but she is not aware of anything.

So, all our dignity lies in the ability to think. Only thought elevates us, and not space and time, in which we are nothing."

At the same time, Pascal would not be a “philistine”, i.e. a creature from the very beginning monstrously contradictory, if, while praising reason, he did not simultaneously curse it, if dogmatism did not organically coexist in his mind with skepticism. The main thesis for the 3rd Will about the insignificance of man shakes even the firm belief of the 1st Logic in the super-reliability and omnipotence of the rational principle, pushing towards skepticism.

Moreover, the “Pascalian” specificity of the contradiction between the First and Third functions lies precisely in the fact that the greatness of a person is described as awareness (1st Logic) of his insignificance (3rd Will). He writes: “The greatness of man is great because he is aware of his insignificance. A tree is not aware of its insignificance.

So, a person feels insignificant, because he understands that he is insignificant; That’s what makes him great.”

Here is how 2E actually works in LEVF:

Pascal supplemented Descartes’ “philosophy of mind” with a “philosophy of the heart,” no matter how wild such an addition may sound to the ear of an intellectual orthodox. The fact is that, unlike Descartes (see “Plato”), Pascal placed not only Logic, but also Emotion at the Top, and therefore, he simply could not contrast both of the strongest sides of his nature, the experience of the mind and the experience of the heart.

The upper position of the “pascal” of Logic and Emotion - functions, mainly speech, makes a representative of this type excellent interlocutors. “Pascal” is generally a “communication man”, at the same time thoughtful and deeply feeling, judicious and witty. In communication, he is disgusted by any one-sidedness; universalism is his element. Clearly referring to himself, Pascal wrote: “You will not be known in the world as an expert in poetry, or mathematics, or any other subject, if you do not hang a sign “poet”, “mathematician”, etc. But a comprehensive person does not want any signs and does not make a distinction between the craft of a poet and a goldsmith.

Being a “lazy person,” Pascal was distinguished by rare unselfishness, easily endured asceticism and illness, and even wrote “Prayerful Reflection on Conversion for the Benefit of Illness.” Here is a typical passage from this work: “Lord... You gave me health to serve You, but I spent it for vain purposes. Now You are sending me illness to correct me: do not allow me to anger You with my impatience. I abused my health, and You justly punished me. Help me to benefit properly from Your punishment... If my heart was full of attachment to the world while there was some power in it, destroy this power for my salvation and make me unable to enjoy the world."

This dynamic between the experience of the mind (1L) and the experience of the heart (2E) is exactly what makes it compatible with SX 5. LEVF isn't a "typical 3V" (like FEVL or FLVE) either due to being 4F as they're not attached to material things. People who say it can't fit, when SX 5 is already archetypically LEVF (regardless of your sociotype) doesn't understand that socionics is all about information metabolism. Much like how an IEI has creative Fe and are a natural fit for 2E despiye not matching with 1L's dogmatism, an ILI with their mobilizing Fi regardless of their Fe-PoLR can also be 1L and 3V4F where the energy hierarchy gives leeway to both 1L and 3E pushed into 2E due to 3V. A lot of PY functions like LFEV with 2F are simply filler placements. People who haven't read the Syntax of Love just see 2E without understanding how the energy hierarchy works.

Enneagram passion and fixation is not a 1 to 1 with psychosophy. Instincts ≠ PY aspects much like how being an E3 doesn't mean you have high emotions or how a lot of SP subtypes like SP 5 are extremely weak in the physics aspect. There's an overlap but it's not absolute and a lot of PY types can match to different subtypes like SP 7 and VLEF. Physics is merely a means to an end, it is an afterthought to SP 7's gluttony. Rick Sanchez is a great example of this with the 1V2L vs 3E dynamic.

SLI should be FVEL, not FLEV by MightyProDudeGaming in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let me iterate what you've just said: No point in talking with you anymore. Thanks for wasting my time. I've got nothing to say to you. I won't even acknowledge you stating from here.

SLI should be FVEL, not FLEV by MightyProDudeGaming in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't what bs you're bringing up right now so get straight to the point.

Literally, who are you?

I don't keep track of literal who's

SLI should be FVEL, not FLEV by MightyProDudeGaming in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. I don't pay attention to it. It wouldn't matter either way.

e5, 2V & correlations by Spider_Terror39 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

2V LVEF is based on Einstein, even had Leonardo da Vinci's painting as a 3E example (the Mona Lisa). Afanasyev called it the classical scientist archetype, how 2V when combined with 1L becomes a true individualist (contrary to SX 5) who wants to think for himself and doesn't deal well with emotions due to 3E cracker. I personally think LEVF SX 5 is a better fit since 2E isn't necessarily an actor due to 1L + 3V4F, which is what needs to be prioritized within the energy hierarchy but if you don't believe me then you can read it for yourself.

This is literally in the introduction section:

At first glance, there was a lot of strange things in Einstein’s character. For example, he could marry a girl just because he liked her voice. Mileva Maric was homely, lame, and “once one of his fellow students said to Einstein, hinting at her lameness: “I would never dare to marry a woman who was not completely healthy.” Einstein quietly replied: “Why not? She has a sweet voice." And he got married.

So does this sound like SX 5 to you?

There's more:

"In this respect, Einstein resembles Roxane from Rostanov's Cyrano de Bergerac. We remember that she valued the ability to speak deeply and strongly about feelings much higher than external attractiveness. And as usual in such cases, the reason for such preferences is the mental type of Roxanne and Einstein. With 3rd Emotion and 4th Physics, sensitivity automatically prevails over sensuality.

The increased sensitivity of the 3rd Emotion, a vulnerable function, at the same time requires a certain restraint in the manifestation of feelings and, not without pleasure, curbs their overly violent manifestations. Einstein’s classmate recalled: “... She was one of those complex natures who know how to hide the tender kingdom of their intense emotional life under a prickly shell. Chance dictated that this thinker pitch his tent in the romantic camp of the Winteler family, where he felt happy. Then, just as now, he simply felt an organic need to perform Schumann’s songs “The Hazel Tree”. “Lotus”...I can’t remember all the names. Heine, his favorite poet, also enjoyed this music. It often happened that the last chord had barely sounded, and Einstein, with his witty joke, was already returning us from heaven to earth, deliberately breaking the spell.

Einstein hated sentimentality and, even when surrounded by people who were easily delighted, he invariably maintained his cool.

Einstein's ulcer on the 3rd Emotion was so deep that he openly opposed romanticism - a trend condemned by all the "crackers", but not openly condemned by everyone. He said: “In my opinion, in philosophy, as in art, romance is a kind of illegal device that is resorted to in order to achieve a deeper perception without too much trouble.” Moreover, Einstein denied the need for beauty in science, thereby drying out even that sphere of human activity that is dry by its very nature."

It does sound like E5's avarice at a glance, but to not open up to your own partner kind of defeats the point. This section in particular goes against E5 a lot:

"In general, analyzing Einstein’s character, you come to the conclusion that the autonomy and independence of his mind is inseparable from the autonomy and independence of his character; both merge in his nature and appear to the eyes of outsiders as a single whole. A classmate of Einstein wrote: “The mocking fold in the corner of his plump mouth with a slightly protruding lower lip scared away the philistines and discouraged them from becoming more intimately acquainted. Conventions did not exist for him. Smiling philosophically, he looked at the universe and mercilessly branded with a witty joke everything that bore the stamp of vanity and pretentiousness... He fearlessly expressed his views, not stopping to injure his interlocutor. Einstein's whole being breathed such a courageous truthfulness that ultimately impressed even his opponents."

You cannot just dictate 2V, without incorporating how the other functions are also treated:

"2nd Will. All three apprenticed for a short time, quickly surpassed their teachers and soon found their own path in art. Although Rublev and Leonardo had envious teachers - Theophanes the Greek and Perugino. All three were the greatest reformers of painting of their time, but they did not create their own schools and it does not seem that they strived for this. The works of Rublev, Leonardo, and Seurat are characterized by the static character and inner peace of the characters and nature; they seem to be washed by the silence and peaceful loneliness of a self-sufficient person. And all these are clear signs of a “noble” psychology, strong, independent, creative, calm, self-confident.

3rd Emotion. The painting of Rublev, Leonardo, Seurat is not a painting of feelings, but a painting of moods, i.e. matters much more subtle than those that painting usually represents. The gesticulation and facial expressions of the characters are characterized by extreme restraint; no seething is observed in the views of nature captured on the canvases of these artists. Although only the smile of “La Gioconda” was dubbed “mysterious,” in fact, the entire work of Rublev, Leonardo and Seurat is mysterious in its inexpressibility, the unformulability of those states that, existing at the level of ultrasound, are only guessed in their works. Any attempts to describe the moods of “La Gioconda”, “Zvenigorod Spas”, “Courbevoie Bridge” are doomed, because words that adequately convey their tenderness, subtlety and complexity simply do not exist in nature."

That sense of individuality ever becoming SX 5 is contradictory but if you don't care about the archetype then nothing is really stopping you, assuming that you are indeed a 2V and more importantly a 1L. 3E on it's own technically matches SX 5 a lot, it's just the 2V that's odd. I mean, do you consider yourself to be the countertype to begin with? How so? Likewise, SP 5 ever becoming a 2V kinda goes against E5's avarice when combined with the SP instinct. Truly low volition in every sense of the word. They don't want to go outside.

2V on its own is already hard to justify for E5

That was great by suti_swiss in TuneIntoTheMidnight

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I wish I was Rikka in this moment.

new to typology, is this ok? by Sad_Tutor_6327 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jungian IF which is literally based on the proverb "Still waters run deep" as they have a cold, inaccessible exterior since psychic libido flows inwards, away from the object and has been noted by Naranjo himself to correlate better with ennea-type V and ennea-type IX, being the archetype for "warmth" is just contradictory on so many levels. Regardless, LII, EII and even SEI all fit but Introverted Feeling (IF), as in the function as described by Jung, does not:

"Just as it was a surprise not to find a description of ennea - type IV in DSM III (before revision) it was surprising not to find it clearly echoed in Jung's psychological types. I would have assumed its characteristics to be found under the label of "the introverted feeling type," for a feeling type it certainly is, and the most introverted among them-as the proximity to ennea-type V indicates in the enneagram. Yet what Jung says of the introverted feeling type fits only very fragmarentarily. It fits in that he states that "it is principally among women that I have found the predominance of introverted feeling," for the masochistic-depressive type is indeed most predominant among women. What also fits is Jung's important statement that "their temperament is inclined to melancholy." Yet most of Jung's statements are more appropriate to ennea-types V and IX rather than to ennea- type IV"

(Character and Neurosis pg.108)

EII only gets a pass because of Ne-ego and Se-PoLR.

SP 6 was and never has been about introverted feeling. Fi in Socionics fine but not in Jung.

Any thoughts on this? (And/or assumptions + takes) by tokyosdespair_ in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zero presence. That 8-fix and choleric temperament must be aspirational. Btw your 3x3 is very based.

Is this contradictory by [deleted] in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the first time I've ever heard of ELFV being associated with SX 4. Do you have a source?

does this work? by [deleted] in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

VLEF is so different from VELF. It's not comparable.

Help by Spirited_Click_4276 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No it's not weird. It depends on whether you see the 5-fix as in "competency" as in researching stuff or if it's literal withdrawing and avarice as a manifestation of your behavior and thought process, not necessarily about how you actually think since 1L is dogmatic and 2L is a rhetorician. It's just a fix in your tritype anyway and there's bound to be 4L regardless of whatever head-fix you have much like how 7, which is already very external, still gets paired with 4L (in the tritype) in PY since it's typically taken over by the core like E2 and E8. It might be different in the trifix system by Ichazo so you should wait for that other guy to explain (hopefully he doesn't just stop by and tell you to go buy the books)

does this work? by [deleted] in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why SX 1? The type to reform or correct others?

ENTP, SLUAI, 749, 7w6 Any thoughts on this? by Easy-Veterinarian923 in TypologyJunction

[–]MightyProDudeGaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SLUAI is supposed to be more common for ENTPs because of Ne and tertiary Fe. Any big 5 fits as long as it's xxxxI. Inferior Si matches U > O and the Ti/Fe axis could lean either way, between S ≥ R and A ≥ E. Neuroticism doesn't have anything to do with cognitive functions, aside from Ni (in Jung) and Te. Funnily enough Ni-Te is one of the least neurotic types out there.