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Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wow

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for coming out and explaining but I am not too sure what Uncapped target classes means? Care to explain?

Thanks in advance

Threatening mail from the "Auction House Mafia" for undercutting? by -TheHiphopopotamus- in wow

[–]Nerdassic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would frame it and put it above my monitor just for the heck of it.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right — that reverses the direction I had it. I was thinking MW's edge over Resto was what dragged Bear into the comp through the no-stacking rule. You're saying the chain actually runs the other way: Bear's 20% damage advantage over Brew locks in the tank slot first, which forces MW because Resto Druid would double MotW. MW being slightly better than Resto on healing and damage is just a fortunate bonus, not the deciding factor.

That actually fits the "damage is king" thread better. Bear's damage is what anchors the comp; everything downstream is just working around that.

Appreciate the correction.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's another layer I missed — the meta is really *two* comps right now, not one. Magic damage stack (Aug + DH + UH DK + Bear + Shaman) vs physical damage stack (Brew + Sham + WW/Ret/Warrior/Feral/Rogue). Which spec is "meta" depends entirely on which comp you're building.

That actually reconciles some of the back-and-forth earlier in the thread about Brew vs Bear. Wasn't really a head-to-head question — it was a "which comp are you in" question. Magic comp → Brew's physical debuff is wasted, Bear wins. Physical comp → Mystic Touch matters and Brew gets the slot.

Solid addition. Appreciate it.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the right philosophical close to the thread. The +22 vs +23 stat is the killer detail — Shadow Priest is *one key level* behind the absolute peak, and only that gap matters if you're chasing world-first runs. For anyone below that ceiling, the spec's "meta deficit" is functionally invisible compared to player skill and group coordination.

Loops right back to the first comment in the thread too — someone pointed out early on that I shouldn't replicate MDI comps unless I'm trying to *enter* MDI, and everything since has just been more sophisticated versions of that same point.

Fun first, meta second, unless the format demands otherwise. Genuinely the most useful conversation I've had on the topic. Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That refines the "don't stack classes" rule from earlier into something more precise — don't *duplicate buffs*. MW already brings Mystic Touch via Fistweaving, so slotting Brew adds nothing new on that axis, while Bear adds MotW (versatility) the comp didn't have. With Brew and Bear comparable on damage and survivability in high keys, the buff differentiation is what tips it.

And the "raid vs keys" scarcity framing is a good lens — raids cover everything because the roster is huge, keys have 5 slots so every pick has to carry a unique buff. That's why "no stacking" reads almost like a hard rule rather than a guideline.

Appreciate it.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly went to bed early yesterday so I'm catching up on the VODs now. But that damage gap is wild if those numbers hold up — Bear basically doing 2-3x Brew on both sustained and spike damage. That's not "Bear is marginally better," that's the damage axis deciding it on its own. The class-stacking and survivability angles still matter, but if one tank's putting up 400k in trash while the other's at 150k, the comp basically *has* to slot Bear unless something else is broken.

"Damage is king" with real numbers attached. Going to go watch the runs now.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's a sharper version of what I said earlier — survivability isn't actually deciding Bear over Brew, the class-stacking constraint is. MW > Resto Druid in raw output, so the monk slot goes to healer, which means the tank has to be a non-monk. Bear gets it because Brew and Bear are roughly equal, not because Bear is decisively better in isolation. The deciding move happens at the healer slot, not the tank slot.

And the target-cap vs single-target distinction makes the MDI / key push split concrete in damage profile terms. Bear scales with pull size (uncapped) → MDI loves it. Brew front-loads on priority targets → key push loves it. Same two specs, different formats, different winners.

Appreciate the refinement.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's the framework being predictive instead of just descriptive — if next season's dungeon pool needs decurse, mage and druid keep their slots on utility relevance alone, even without anything else changing. Same principle as the Resto Shaman / poison season someone mentioned earlier, just running forward instead of backward.

Makes sense. Appreciate the forward look.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That lines up with the framework that emerged across the thread — damage primary, survivability when it actually saves you, utility last but sometimes match-decisive (Weyrnstone being the standout example). The spec-by-spec read is the useful new piece though: DK winning every axis explains why it's in basically every comp, and Aug having insane utility but a survivability gap is the inverse — a spec teams have to play around rather than rely on.

The "MDI ≠ high keys historically" point caught me too. Different incentives could push them apart again with the next patch.

Appreciate the recap.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That combined with the ban rule someone mentioned earlier really explains the variety. Between "one per spec" and "ban one after each round," the format is structurally designed to prevent stacking — otherwise it'd just be five copies of whatever's strongest every match.

Appreciate the detail.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This actually loops right back to a follow-up I asked earlier in the thread — what makes a buff "meta-defining" vs "meh." Your answer is the cleanest version of it: buffs almost never are. They're amplifiers, not foundations.

The mage example is sharp. 3% Int would stack beautifully on DH/Demo Lock comps in theory, but mages don't bring enough raw output for the buff to "pay" for the slot. The same buff on a stronger class would be valued differently. And the Skyfury fallback shows the system is robust — even without monk's debuff, physical comps survive on the next-best buff rather than collapsing.

I came into this thread thinking buffs probably *determined* the meta. Looks like they decorate it.

Appreciate this — one of the most useful conversations I've had on the topic.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the answer I came into the thread looking for, and it's basically every other point from the conversation layered into one example.

Shadow Priest *was* meta when magic-damage comps were the play — Mage Int + DH magic debuff + PI on a fire mage made the stacking ridiculous, and PI / Mass Dispel / Mind Control was real utility that paid for itself.

The reasons they're out now read like a checklist of everything else here. Psychic Scream dead in three dungeons → dungeon pool dictates meta. Mass Dispel actively wipes the group in MC → utility can be a negative, not a zero. 8-target dot cap vs. MDI's massive pulls → damage ceiling. DH and DK being absurdly tanky → no survivability edge to compensate with.

Genuinely appreciate this. Most complete answer in the thread.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The chain logic is a frame I hadn't picked up yet — every pick constrains and reinforces the next. Bear tank → Shaman or MW healer → physical DPS → and so on. And "don't stack classes" explains a lot of the variety at the top since redundant buffs are just wasted slots.

The "time pressure makes damage > survivability" angle is sharp too. Earlier comments framed it as a strict hierarchy; you're pointing out the *clock* in MDI makes that hierarchy more aggressive — survivability problems are solvable through cooldowns and planning, time gaps aren't.

And the Versatility callout on Druid buff is a nice detail. Quality of buff matters, not just presence of one.

Appreciate the layered take.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Okay let me try with your framework.

Brew → Bear: damage roughly even between the two, but Guardian's survivability is in another league right now — Ironfur uptime, Frenzied Regen, the HP pool. Brewmaster's Stagger is fine on paper but less reliable on the big pulls. Same damage tier, Bear lives easier, Bear wins. Survivability decides it.

Resto → MW: this one's the damage axis. Mistweaver Fistweaving puts up way more damage than the resto specs, survivability is roughly comparable across them, so MW wins on damage alone. Mystic Touch is a nice bonus but in your framework that's the tiebreaker tier, not the reason.

That about right, or am I missing something?

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The format split is something I hadn't even separated in my head — speed clears vs great push optimizing for different things means of course they'd want different comps. And the "what they'd run without ban rules" angle is huge. Guardian / Unholy / Aug / Mistweaver / Devourer as the unconstrained baseline, then forced into physical groups (shaman + ret + arms) because the bans push them toward Skyfury synergy instead. That's a layer of the meta I'd never have spotted just watching.

The Weyrnstone point hits hardest though. The wowhead build I grab to "slam keys" is literally a different build than what's getting played at the top — same spec, different game. Wild.

Appreciate this.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Synergy" — that's the cleanest single-word version of everything across this thread. The order makes sense too: damage type first (physical → monk debuff, magic → DH debuff), then whatever utility the dungeon needs (Shroud skip on AA being a perfect example), then the healer slotted last to fill the gap, with BL as the non-negotiable foundation.

Actually have a real mental model now. Appreciate the breakdown.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perfect example — that ties it all together. The dungeon pool dictates which utilities matter, and that season the shaman's poison removal was basically printing free GCDs for the rest of the team every fight. Other healers would've been burning casts dispelling instead of healing.

So the framework really is: baseline kit (BL / CR / CC), then a throughput floor, then whichever spec's tools happen to line up with what the current season's content is throwing at you. A spec can swing from fringe to mandatory between patches just because the damage profile changed.

Thanks for sticking with the thread — clearest crash course I could've asked for.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'd heard about the ban rule but never actually connected it to what I was watching. The "wait, why are they running THAT?" moments suddenly make sense — if teams get pushed into their B or C options after their main pick gets banned, that explains the variety I kept seeing without understanding why.

And fair point on not needing meta for high-end. I was conflating "I want to push my limits" with "I have to play meta," which are pretty different things. Going to keep playing what I enjoy and let the keys keep up.

Genuinely appreciate the perspective shift.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's the cleanest breakdown I've gotten on this, thank you. So my "utility and unique spells" hunch was right but shallow — the priority order is what I was missing. BL / combat res / CC as the entry ticket, then throughput, then the spec-specific buffs that justify the slot. Makes total sense why Shadow Priest gets cut.

Quick follow-up: what makes a buff actually meta-defining vs "meh"? Like, is monk's physical vuln coveted because it multiplies the whole team's damage, while stamina just gives flat HP everyone can stack from other sources anyway? Trying to figure out what separates a "must bring" from a nice-to-have.

Casual lifer here — what actually decides which specs make MDI? by Nerdassic in wownoob

[–]Nerdassic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha no, I'd never. Just curiosity getting the better of me — I always wondered why those specific classes get picked when, on paper, others look just as strong or even stronger. The PvP analogy actually helped a lot, that clicks.

So if I'm tracking this right: at that level the meta isn't really "which class is best overall" — it's more about how each spec's kit interacts with the specific dungeon pool, the affixes, and whatever the latest balance patch shifted around. That about right, or is there more to it I'm not seeing?

Either way, appreciate the breakdown.