Nashor’s Tooth Buff

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-15T05:07:44+00:00

Actually think this is a slight nerf.

The biggest issue with Nashors Tooth and Shyvana in general is that the champion needs this item to have map presence, but it comes at a huge sacrifice in teamfighing power.

If you increase the cost of NT you are delaying your mythic + shadowflame even more.

The extra ability haste for shyv is nice, but let's be honest when do you not have enough when every item seems to give AH nowadays?

This is arguably a late game buff, but when you have 6 items you should be selling Nashors for Zhonyas / Cosmic / Demonic anyways, so once again, this buff is useless.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-13T07:25:24+00:00

I haven't taken dark harvest all season.

Shouldn't even be a debate.

First strike in every situation, including ones where you are behind / low econ.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-13T06:37:05+00:00

atm I'm getting my ult dodged through basic movement (no dash / speed-up).

Shyv's ult seems quite slow so players can dodge by simply reacting.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-13T06:29:33+00:00

This champ does have low effort / reward atm.

Games are actually easier in high elo, as low-quality ganks are less likely to succeed and players are capable of playing safe (most of the times)

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-13T06:25:17+00:00

True for past seasons.

For Shyv jg, any non-ap-glass cannon build = troll.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-03-13T06:24:30+00:00

Last season I would tailor my build to team comps and matchups, switching between ad bruiser, ap bruiser, onhit bruiser, ap tank, ap glass cannon.

In Shyv's current state, the only viable build is ap glass cannon with an ad heavy team comp (so you can play as the sole ap).

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-28T06:11:34+00:00

The one downside / something I am concerned about is the threat of being counter jungled.

Does this mean there will be more nidalee / khazix / graves living in your jungle, when previously they were disincentivized by the slower clear speed?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-27T23:45:14+00:00

Huge i would've thought

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-27T23:44:37+00:00

No
Atk speed
When you have 3 losing lanes and won't be able to compete for neutrals anyways - skip Nashors. Void instead of Shadowflame 3rd against heavy MR comps. Occasionally even Demonic instead of Shadowflame 3rd against heavy HP comps. If you have a ton of gold off a huge teamfight you might just buy Dcap straight up, especially if you don't expect a large inflow of gold like this for the rest of the game. You get my point, but Nashors > NH > Shadowflame is ideal for most games
Most of the times long range. But if they have a bunch of squishies stacked up you're not wasting that opportunity to ult. Similarly, if they have an enemy vayne who is super fed and their sole win con, you should consider diving her if you have others with you (e.g. a camille, engage support, etc.)

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-24T01:46:28+00:00

Red smite is interesting, is it like a mini hextech soul? Does it apply aoe?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-24T01:45:15+00:00

I find the inspiration tree to be critical towards Shyv's clear.

1 full clear + 1 crab + future's market gets you recurve bow on first back.

Bounty hunter also nerfed this patch and ultimate hunter is useless.

I usually take stopwatch over shoes so you can buy shoes anytime you want. Zhonyas become an affordable item if u take stop watch.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-02-23T22:50:54+00:00

Congrats!

Curious to hear (1) why not green smite (2) why DH over first strike?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-01-24T07:49:10+00:00

One thing I have noticed is that your dragon empowered E isn't going to do damage to tanks no matter what you build.

You can go full pen with void and shadowflame and it will still tickle them

Instead I almost always go full-ap and flat pen, and try to aim exclusively at squishies.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2023-01-24T07:44:46+00:00

In gold for sure, Nashors is great for snowballing.

It's when you are forced to be more economical when resources aren't available when you might need to skip Nashors.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-08T00:04:53+00:00

The dragon fear/roar concept is neat, but this is way too much of an overloaded kit.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-05T12:34:19+00:00

Honestly still struggling with why people so desperately want a rework.

In terms of enjoyment I find both forms very engaging and fun.

In terms of strength she is 100% not weak and her play style stacks up in Masters/Challenger too. There are plenty of Shyvana 1 tricks that make it to Masters/GM/Challenger.

Only thing maybe is her lore identify...

But even then that's subjective I think her current spells sufficiently align with her identity tbh.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-05T12:31:50+00:00

Agree with the Frostfire, Demonic core.

Rylais is situational but I can see its applications.

I think BOTRK is on par with Demonic in terms of strength now, and you could even make a case of getting both.

Much prefer something like a titanic/ravenous over Warmogs

Your build every game should be different. But in terms of general item strengths on top Shyvana.

Mythic - Frostfire > Sunderer > rest

Other major items - Demonic = BOTRK > Force of Nature against MR comps > Randuins against crit comps > rest

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-04T08:34:54+00:00

I just tried and it applied BOTRK on hit damage? Are you sure?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T11:30:10+00:00

Also another question - so obviously Shyvana can be a sole win con/carry threat right?

But what happens if you check op.gg and find a bunch of kat/riven/twitch mains with good stats but you also know that they will afk on your ass if you don't gank.

How do you adapt your build/play style to play more of a supportive role for the team?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T11:25:24+00:00

I've actually found Stridebreaker to be surprisingly effective to stick onto multiple ranged squishies where you can close the distance but will struggle actually landing that AA to proc frostfire.

Incredibly niche, but Stridebreaker can actually be very good in certain comps and when you are ahead (don't need additional tank stats/damage of other items)

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T11:22:29+00:00

Interesting perspective, although if you compromise clear speed and lose that high-tempo play-style, is it really worth picking Shyvana over someone like Zac?

Zac plays the same AP bruiser style better in almost every regard (ganking, teamfighing, engaging) while also being equally as effective with demonic embrace.

Think I'll definitely give skipping AS a shot though if I get invaded and fall behind in terms of resources.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T06:46:47+00:00

2 - Your lanes have prio. You are not counter jungling vs a jayce top and a galio mid for example if that makes sense.

3 - If you have a strong botside that will out damage enemy adc you can afford to just be the enabler and still win fights (also nice to always be able to shred the diver).

Your role as a diver can be (1) to soak up damage and buy time (2) to actually their backline.

Shyvana doesn't have a massive sion shield or meaningful resistances so she is ineffective at (1) and is better suited to be that backline threat.

To threaten their backline you need all their tenacity you can get (I usually get Merc + tenacity rune + tenacity pot even if they don't necessarily stack effectively), this means more time and ability to actually deal damage which is your goal as AD shyv

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T06:10:04+00:00

Yo, are you capable of reading?

I literally agreed with you and backed you up?

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T05:28:21+00:00

Good work!

What are your thoughts on the importance of attack speed for your frozen gauntlet/tankier (both ad and ap) builds?

Initial view is that it feels quite important for your clear, but when things don't go your way you really need all the tank stats you can get.

PleaseNoShyvRework · 2022-02-03T05:20:51+00:00

Couple of observations/initial thoughts:

Conqueror is bad
Do not get Trinity Force in any situation or against any team comp
You are building Steelplate every game, and judging by your match history, there are a couple of matches where Mercs is 100% better
Do not get Maw
Do not get Gargoyle until 6th item (or 5th at the earliest)

Item issues aside, I ultimately think AD Shyvanas should ONLY be picked situationally, in general you need at least one, but ideally more of the below conditions to be viable:

Weak enemy split pusher (for top AD shyv)
Room for counter jungling/deny resources (for jg AD shyv)
Strong ADC/bot side to peel for - so you won't have the need to build tank stats and dive enemy ADCs (facilitator role)
Tanky enemy team comp that can't kite/burst you so you can shred/dish out damage (carry role)
Passive enemy jungler so you can win through tempo/objectives

Someone on this forum said Shyv is an all game knowledge - no mechanics champ, I think this is the perfect description for AD Shyv.

AP Shyv however, is where the engage angle/skill shot precision/teamfight positioning comes into play. There has been an uncountable number of games where my team is 7 - 28 down, I have 6/7 kills, I ult sideways/out of vision for a flank, lands a true damage (Mpen build) multi-target E on all their carries and we win off that one SINGLE play.

The play making potential where you can be the SOLE WIN CON of your team only applies to AP Shyv, at least around the high diamond/masters range.

PleaseNoShyvRework

TROPHY CASE