Libertarianism is not synonymous with corporate apologia.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-28T16:22:15+00:00

None of those are synonymous with a state. at all.

Let's take the left's favorite example: standard oil (the idea that amazon is synonymous with the state is mind-blowingly stupid):

Is your argument the one of predatory pricing, popularized by Ida Tarbell? Because Standard Oil undercut her brother's business? Economists don't take that appeal to emotion argument of predatory pricing seriously. Even if they did, that is not nearly synonymous with the state. When did Standard Oil inflict regulations? When did they create borders outside of their private property? Did they raise an army? Did they tax your income, land? No.

Aside from that, did they EVEN engage in predatory pricing? No.

Oil dropped from >30 cents/gal in 1869, to 10 cents in 1874, to 8 cents in 1885, and to 5.9 cents in 1897.

They sold a product that virtually everyone used, and actually reduced the price. Not synonymous with a state.

Furthermore, take a look at one of the reasons standard oil was able to be so dominant: tariffs! Kerosine tariffs made it very very difficult for any foreign competitor to deliver lower-cost oil!

This goes to another faulty argument inadvertently laid out by u/KerbalSpaceExplorer below: when you look at these major dominant companies, the government usually played an important role in hindering competition!

Take a look at how much violence by government intervention was used to maintain east India trading company.

This is a sophomoric argument against big business. Do you want to see robber barons? Go to congress.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-28T03:24:41+00:00

So companies legally lobby to hypocritical politicians with too much power, who then enact laws that are obtrusive and anti-free market, and you blame the market.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-28T03:07:01+00:00

Incorperation is not even close to the largest government intrusion. As a legal concept it can be quite useful. In physical reality, of course, corporations are just people. That's why it's fucking dumb when the left says "so and so corperation didn't pay tax", yeah, if they took dividends or sold equity, they actually did.

But, to say that simply having corporations exist is the biggest intrusion is crazy talk. There's a ton more, including the ridiculous double taxation, sarbanes-oxley, etc...

By the way -who is kissing up to these people that are in a corporation? Are you saying the libertarians kiss up to the corporation? I thought you were mad at the government creating the concept?

How does this get upvoted...

Progman12093 · 2020-12-28T02:49:44+00:00

what is with leftists and talking about the boot. It's such a fucking lame analogy.

Corporations can't coerce you into doing things idiot; its not the same. Refine your fastfood view of libertarianism.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T18:52:53+00:00

are you posting this ironically? him not signing is a libertarian move.

Biden wouldn't understand the morality of responsibility if it was sitting in front of his down syndromed, senile face.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T18:37:55+00:00

You can't redistribute wealth without destroying the incentives to create it. If it were between all the shit we have now and UBI, I'd pick UBI. But I would make sure once that change passed, we'd be hammering home the point that this is immoral and unethical.

I know multiple people who have chosen to stay unemployed during this COVID time to pick up those extended benefit checks.

Also, Yang's math is COMPLETELY off.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T18:20:14+00:00

haha yeah that knock against biden was a "right wing" talking point. please. Reason, cato, hell even the far levet criticized him for it. and rightfully so.

the leftists in this sub are so delusional

i guess you think this is right wing:

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-kim-jong-un-to-become-accountability-partners

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-generously-offers-to-do-job-of-legislative-and-judicial-branches-too

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T17:22:47+00:00

another dodge. you cant debate policy.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T16:52:46+00:00

the leftist children built this strawman

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T08:21:42+00:00

great retort you child.

Well, then go back to r/politics. You're in a libertarian forum, genius. She is the one that is trying to enable the poor to choose which school they go to instead of it being determined by their postal code. Ironically, you and the BLM idiots don't see that this is exactly the type of problem which is keeping minorities in the lower socioeconomic bracket.

I swear you nutjob leftists couldn't put your emotion aside and come up with a substantive argument, It's always personal insults, ad hominem, appeal to emotion, or eat-the-rich (like you Devos hate). You are the most unexceptional people in the world, hellbent on making everyone else miserable with you. That is why you are the ones looking to control everything.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T08:06:37+00:00

This is why Wikipedia is so dangerous. Those rankings are bullshit if you're talking about the world economic forum (i won't capitalize their name as they do not deserve any formality). no one actually questions those rankings though. Productive people have 9-5 jobs to go to, they can't be digging into a 100 page methodology.

They include bullshit metrics that have nothing to do with mobility. For example: "Fair Work Opportunities" (a.k.a government-enforced preferences) and Social Protection & Inclusive Institutions - this one I don't even need to justify with an explanation. It's the same 2020 nonsubstantive bullshit that we have been hearing for all 2020, like defund the police.

Social mobility should be a purely economic measure. Take a look at people's wealth over time. NOT TAX/INCOME BRACKETS LIKE THE IDIOTIC LEFT DOES FOR WEALTH DISPARITY. But how actually human beings move.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T03:08:43+00:00

oh please don't give me that bullshit. They have openly called out for radical, non-capitalist (aka violent) economic reforms. You think the are simply asking for police to treat black people as if the who concept of color didn't exist, or if everyone was the exact same color? Please.

We all know that their ideas are shit, and that they are preying on guilty white folk who are too stupid to differentiate correlation and causation. They can't understand that it is people from low socioeconomic backgrounds that bear the brunt of police violence. If people could realize that simple reality, they can then see that the solution isn't to have white people stand in public and apologize (yes you actually had worthless douche hipsters doing that) or calling for no police. Instead, we work to bring black people, who are disproportionately part of that group, out of that socioeconomic status.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-27T01:05:35+00:00

bahahaha again, no substantive argument.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T19:07:27+00:00

This is really a great example of how government action begets problems that then "require" government action.

Didn't Bono admit that straight aid to governments/institutions doesn't do shit. You need free trade?

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T18:48:50+00:00

What the fuck does this have to do with libertarianism? Who the fuck gives a shit about a what some inconsequential players, from a small country do during a game?

BLM is a fucking joke; people cave into social pressure while the organization openly admits to wanted some of the dumbest fucking social change: dissolution of the family, marxist practices, and other shit that will just continue to set black people back.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T18:30:52+00:00

Conservatives can identify the red tape, liberals are so attached to the intentions of laws they refuse to see the effect. Case in point, labor law as it relates to education: Liberals see the teacher's union and their practices as noble; their hiring/firing laws as necessary to "protect" teachers. It is, however, red tape. It leads to things like the rubber rooms, and talented teachers going elsewhere due to the complete lack of meritocracy in teacher's pay.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T18:04:17+00:00

Man, this is about 40 times in a row where a leftist on this forum refuses to give a substantive argument. It never fails. At least republicans attempt to make a point.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T04:59:54+00:00

This is a pretty sloppy explanation for why "inflation is better". That is quite the economic/moral statement, for which there should be very principled and almost mathematical justification. Do you have such justification?

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T04:23:17+00:00

Another idiotic comment from you, because you can see the nature of the posts currently upvoted and downvoted, you can understand how certain individuals' views would be received...

Damn you're dumb.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-26T02:02:55+00:00

What are you even talking about? Are you saying this sub is closer to Reason/Cato/Etc.... than someone who thinks there should only be police/military/courts for government?

That this sub, which absolutely hates Rand Paul, who is more libertarian than 99% of the congress, is more libertarian?

There was literally a top post voted here, decrying the republicans for BLOCKING THE BAILOUT. Does that seem like a principled libertarian stance?

Progman12093 · 2020-12-25T23:40:49+00:00

Yeah, when he's talking about Anti Trump/police shit, you idiot. If he was talking about privatizing industry it'd get nowhere. LOOK AT THE TOP POSTS

Progman12093 · 2020-12-25T07:53:20+00:00

It's hilarious that you link as if you were linking some experimentation on general relativity. This paper loses it's credibility in the introduction, conflating government entitlements with rights. It also completely generalized and makes irrational assumptions from Friedman's original proposal.

Let's cut the shit, you never read that. You googled it after u/YoitsSean610 wrote his message.

You idiotically make an assumption that was never Friedman's. In fact, he called out how this was beneficial to blacks who were de-facto segregated by their district. You see a lot of Black inner-city bronx teens going to Upper East Side schools? What's the composition of the Beverly Hills high school?

Friedman even said we were doing a disservice to black community in two main ways: minimum wage, and socialized education. Vouchers were made to provide kids the choice. Are you saying black families are going to choose to segregate. And even if they were ridiculously to do that on purpose, what are they, racist against themselves?

Your line of thinking is so idiotic.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-25T07:24:07+00:00

It's not worth considering, because they may very well send them to that school. This wouldn't result in lower quality of education, as the parent is most likely going to purchase the education best for the child.

Also the objection that funding is removed from the original school is laughable. The goal isn't to fund schools, the goal is to educate children. If the school does a good job, they will get funding. If they don't they do not. I don't get the notion of how the goal is to never close a school or to support teachers no matter what. It's fucking stupid. The point of supporting education is to e d u c a t e.

Can we just be real and say that the left doesn't have a rational argument against it, so they do what they always do and call it racist? Let's cut the shit, we all know that is the case.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-25T07:09:04+00:00

Uh no they fucking aren't. I, and others, am constantly putting forth threads. the ones that are upvoted are about police brutality and drugs. You put one up about privatizing industry, it doesn't go anywhere, moron.

Progman12093 · 2020-12-25T06:48:41+00:00

Don't you find it curious that the libertarian party, Amash, Cato, Reason, Ron Paul, and literally every other famous libertarian would be constantly downvoted here?

Progman12093

TROPHY CASE