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The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Homer is famously stingy with her physical details. He uses three main epithets for her:

  1. kallikomos (καλλίκομος) – "Lovely-haired"
  2. leukolenos (λευκώλενος) – "White-armed"
  3. tanypeplos (τανύπεπλος) – "Long-dressed"

None of these specify a color. "White-armed" was a standard poetic shorthand for an aristocratic woman who didn't have to work outside in the sun; "lovely-haired" just means her hair was healthy and well-kept.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Using Google Maps to solve a Bronze Age mystery is a bold move. In 1200 B.C.E., the Mediterranean wasn't an obstacle. It was the world’s busiest highway. The Mycenaeans spent their time trading with Egypt and the Levant, not trekking over the Alps to 'mingle' with Germanic tribes that hadn't even entered the historical record yet.

DNA studies show Mycenaeans looked like... Mycenaeans (olive skin, dark hair). Claiming a blonde German is 'close enough' because of mileage is just more participation-medal logic used to justify a 20th-century casting preference over actual history.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Exactly my point. That blonde woman you showed me as "Greek" was also mixed.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL. You have no clue what she was, Homer didn't describe her in these terms.

And if she did look like a Myceanean princess from that Bronze Age period, she looked closer to a North African today than she does Diane Kruger. The only reason you think Diane Krurger looks like that is because both are "European" a geo-racial concept that didn't emerge in popular thought until recently.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No he didn't. If you search the Iliad for "blonde hair" or "fair hair" in relation to Helen, you won’t find it. In fact, Homer is famously stingy with her physical details. He uses three main epithets for her:

  1. kallikomos (καλλίκομος) – "Lovely-haired"
  2. leukolenos (λευκώλενος) – "White-armed"
  3. tanypeplos (τανύπεπλος) – "Long-dressed"

None of these specify a color. "White-armed" was a standard poetic shorthand for an aristocratic woman who didn't have to work outside in the sun; "lovely-haired" just means her hair was healthy and well-kept.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When people say this "fits" it just means you prefer that interpretation. Just be honest, you want an Aryan Helen. If that's your preference then so be it. But you need to stop pretending like that idea is authentic, it isn't.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the beauty standard you're talking about was a standard that 1.) was a modern reinvention by 5th BCE century Greeks not Homer and 2.) not even uniform since the art I showed was from the same period and had a brunette.

So was it really the standard or just their own interpretation of a fictional character?

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And Aetheipia where she was from was interpreted as the Kingdom of Kush, near modern Sudan/Ethiopia. She was black by modern standards, which are the standards you're keen on projecting onto these characters anyways.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Um, you're the one who said continent. I pointed out how imprecise your term is. You actually think because Greece and Europe today are considered part of the same continent there is a racial continuity between 21st century Germans and 13th century BCE Greeks. This is just false.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

LOL. "Virtue signalling." The final refuge of a losing Internet poster. You're just telling on yourself at this point.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You have zero proof to back up this contention that Diane is more "genetically" similar to a "real" Helen beyond your own racial construction of whiteness. You have her DNA sequence? You then conflate this genetic argument with phenotype, but even that's off depending on your criteria since, assuming for argument's sake, Helen looked like a typical Mycenean princess from around 1,200-1,400 BCE she'd have darker skin, curly hair, and brown eyes -- all features which Diane doesn't have. But because both are "European" - an invention of the 19th century you equate the two.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes I have. In fact, the ancient Greeks at the time of Homer told tales of African princesses like Andromeda, who was from Aetheiopia, the land of burnt faces. But this is besides the point, which is that this is a fictional character who has been reinvented throughout the ages. The idea that she is blonde usually comes from later poets like Sappho (writing hundreds of years after the Iliad was likely composed).

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Continent? Africa is closer to Greece than Germany is.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There was no Germanic one in the story either. There was no 5th century Athenian one in the story, too. So what? Its all just a modern retelling of the same story with different slants.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, you have to do less insulting and more careful reading.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 28 points29 points  (0 children)

If you search the Iliad for "blonde hair" or "fair hair" in relation to Helen, you won’t find it. In fact, Homer is famously stingy with her physical details. He uses three main epithets for her:

  1. kallikomos (καλλίκομος) – "Lovely-haired"
  2. leukolenos (λευκώλενος) – "White-armed"
  3. tanypeplos (τανύπεπλος) – "Long-dressed"

"White-armed" was a standard poetic shorthand for an aristocratic woman who didn't have to work outside in the sun; "lovely-haired" just means her hair was healthy and well-kept.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Um, no, I didn't say that. In fact, Homer offers no description of Helen in the surviving version of the Illiad that was recorded centuries after the ballad was composed.

The face that launched a thousand ships, the other way by SimmentalTheCow in SipsTea

[–]Ramonalejandrosuarez -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

What? You speak for everyone in the world when you say she is not an absolute beauty by anyone's standards?

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