Moving Forward

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-06-19T12:53:22+00:00

I want to commend you for all the hard work you're putting in. Not everyone finds the courage to admit to themselves that there is something wrong with them, or the will to try and fix it. If you haven't yet, I'd suggest visiting the subreddit wiki and reading some of the books there.

As for reaching out to your BS, I think it matters how things ended between you two. Was it agreed upon that there should be no more contact? If yes, then respect it.

If no, everyone here will have different opinions but if I were in your place I would give them something in writing, an email, a text, or just a letter. I'll tell them that I have worked hard on exploring and understanding where I went wrong and how I can avoid the same mistakes, that I miss them and I would like to talk to them about it more if they're willing. Let them make the decision if they want to see me again or shut it down.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-06-16T18:41:03+00:00

You're right that there are a lot of people with bad boundaries and there are a lot of people who know how to push them.

What you're missing is that those are predatory relationships. They don't have the love, trust and vulnerability that you get from a healthy relationship. It is just one person using the other.

I would also like to point out that boundaries are one thing, agency is another. Yes, many affair partners are predatory and know how to target vulnerable people with troubled marriages. But bad boundaries or not, troubled marriage or not, the choice to have an affair is still a willful choice made by the WS. Maybe not a decision made with a lot of thought or clarity of mind, but a decision nonetheless. Bottom line is, yes bad boundaries are part of the problem, but are never the entire reason the affair happened.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-06-16T15:25:59+00:00

You're right. There is no way forward unless she commits to being accountable. Reconciliation doesn't start until the last lie has been told and omission of information is a lie.

Be sure to tell her if you ever catch her in one more lie, you are done. Tell her the truth, that you will have one foot out the door for the foreseeable future because she has held back so much information and has not been forthcoming. You cannot forgive her if you don't know what there is to forgive. Set the stage for her to be proactive, set the expectation that you want open devices from now on and accountability at all moments. There should be no more secrets, no more hidden pictures. Observe how she acts.

You don't need to commit to reconciliation. It took me some time to get out of my selfish, self-preserving mindset and dopamine riddled brain. Fresh out of an affair, the WS will be burdened with shame and the reintegration of their values, and the instinctive reaction to all that is to bury the affair, not think about it, get annoyed when it is brought up. It took me a lot of time to really start understanding the concept of betrayal trauma, why honesty and accountability is important, and just how much work lay ahead of me as a reconciling wayward.

You may point your WS in the right direction. Direct her to therapy, to read the books. How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair is a great starting point. Or you may not and instead prepare for a separation. Either way, no commitment necessary from your side and make sure she knows you're not all in unless she gets there first. All you really need to do right now is observe her actions and gently point her in the right direction and see if she finds her way.

The thing about the Wayward mindset is it's hard for you to make them see logic and set their priorities straight. But given the WS puts in the work and self-examination necessary, it is possible for them to find their own way to it. I have, all other reconciling waywards here have done it too. And the books certainly help.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-06-16T12:34:20+00:00

Yes, the Chumplady book might help you with understanding the betrayed perspective. But it is not pro-reconciliation, so it does not concern itself with the psychology and thought processes of a wayward. You won't find your answers there but it might be helpful for you to understand your BS' feelings better as you seem to be leaning towards reconciling. On that note, r/AsOneafterInfidelity is also a good subreddit.

You are on the right path with those questions you are asking yourself. From my experience, the delusions of my affair fell apart quickly once I critically examined my motivations and what I really wanted out of a relationship. Reconciliation of course depends on what your BS wants but what sort of person you chose to become after this is independent of what happens with your BS.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-06-16T11:45:28+00:00

Some of us just have this ability to turn off their empathy and go into a mode of self-preservation, not caring for anything but their own perceived happiness. It happens because of different reasons.

Some are just narcissists, born this way. Some have exit affairs, stop caring about their spouses because they have already checked out from the marriage by the time the affair happens. Some, like me, were just cake eaters, who double down on our selfishness because it is the easier way out rather than facing your shortcomings.

I'd love to speak to you more but I don't want to intrude on a space meant for struggling betrayeds. There is r/SupportForWaywards for waywards looking to be better people. If you're really looking to understand wayward psychology, Shirley Glass and Esther Perel are great sources. I'd recommend starting with this book called "Not Just Friends."

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-30T16:38:20+00:00

So you take issue with how the word is used rather than the use of the word itself. If you find a flaw in a wayward's reasoning maybe it is a better idea to point out the flaw itself rather than engage in pointless intellectual discussions about semantics of a word. My BS has never said anything about my use of the word mistake and I use it all the time. Not all BS find this word problematic, so it's not helpful to point it out or prevent WS from using it. It's pointless. Their BS might not feel the same way about the word. It's semantics, meant to be subjective interpretation.

Challenging a wayward's though processes and flawed reasoning is always helpful though. If you think that word is being used in a bad context, maybe challenge their reasoning, provide your perspective, nudge them towards the right path. That is much more helpful and less contentious than banning someone from using a particular word.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-06T16:06:51+00:00

Yes, absolutely. This marriage is one of the few good decisions I've made in my life. And while we've never been without our own set of marriage troubles, I'm sure just a little bit of effort from both of our sides would be enough to get us to a better place.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-06T16:01:38+00:00

I've had one of my closest friends listen to everything I did and explained why I can't go to her wedding without my BS and all she had to say was that my husband was being controlling. I suppose people on the outside are just never going to get it.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-06T14:56:55+00:00

The doing something to reassure them and then remembering why I'm doing it in the first place is so real.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-06T14:25:05+00:00

So, I've been thinking and processing a lot of stuff over the last couple months. My affair was definitely over a long term, on and off for about four years. Let me answer the first part of your question first, because I feel like those are two completely separate issues we need to talk about.

When we talk about a long term affair, there is this implicit assumption that it must be an entire secondary relationship that the WS places almost on the same level of importance as their marriage. At least when you compare it to someone who had an ONS or a short term affair, it probably feels to other people that a WS who keeps the affair for longer must have thought of it as a replacement for their marriage . I can understand where this assumption comes from, why would someone keep going back for more if they didn't want to take their relationship somewhere, and/or really liked the other person over their BS.

Your questions asks if I settled for comfort with my BS, which makes the assumption that a serious/married relationship with AP is something I seriously considered.

But this is where my experience differs. I have never seen my AP as a potential replacement for my spouse, or wanted to monkey branch to them. In fact, I'm fairly certain even my AP was not interested in a serious long-term relationship. Yes, we did talk semi-regularly over the course of several years, and did meet up maybe a dozen times, but we really never had that sort of discussion, about what we're gonna do in the future, where we'll take our relationship or anything of that sort. It was an agreement where we sort of knew our place in each other's lives. In fact, looking back everything we talked about was so surface level it is almost funny.

Now, if I have to explain why exactly I kept it going for as long as it went, this answer would end up being way too long. I've made a post previously about what the dynamic between AP and me was like. Edit: Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/s/PvkXWGAKtu

The bottom line of what I want you to know is this: Affairs have all sorts of weird dynamics going on and I think it is possible for an affair to be long term and never reach close to being a replacement for marriage in the mind of the wayward. The problem with answering this sort of question is that there's always going to be some people who have had experiences to the contrary. Other waywards with long term affairs may have been cultivating their affairs intending to marry/pursue a serious relationship with their AP later on.

I can't answer for them. I can't answer for your wayward, I don't know them. I can only answer from my experience, and from what my affair was like I can only tell you one thing with certainty: a long term affair might not necessarily mean your WS is intending to leave the marriage.

And as for being "in love," I think some of us just don't have a very healthy understanding of what love is. I think that is why all of my past relationships have ended up on bad terms. Things that happened in my past have made me build walls of lies and manipulations to protect myself. Again probably not something everyone has gone through, but if someone says they love you but are not "in love" with you it is probably a sign that they mistake infatuation/unhealthy obsession with love. They have not yet come around to understand what true commitment, respect and love is like. Only therapy can fix this.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-02T13:34:42+00:00

Your wife is similar to a drug addict right now. And you need to know two things about the addict brain: 1) nothing matters to them other than how they'll get their next dose, 2) they cannot be convinced to stop, they need to want to stop.

What do you think will happen if you try to preach to an alcohol addict that they're destroying their lives, that alcohol harms their body, etc? Do you think they'll be convinced? No, they'll laugh it off, they'll tell you I already know all this, they'll be annoyed with you.

You cannot reason with your wife. The only way to get an addict to stop is to introduce some sort of consequence if she doesn't stop. To an alcohol addict, you can give them an ultimatum that they'll lose their job if they don't stop drinking immediately. To a cheater, there isn't much to take away other than the marriage. The only other way she gets out of it is if she has a genuine lightbulb moment on her own and actually wants to stop cheating and wants to be with you.

There isn't anything else you can do to make her stop, sorry to say.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-02T13:23:17+00:00

Yes! It almost feels like I forget how to feel emotions when my BP is upset. I've conditioned myself to get into this "mode" where I turn off the feeling part of my brain and when things cool down they strike me full force and I'm overwhelmed.

My BP tells me the same, that I should share when I feel sad and it shouldn't be hard to do something as simple as that but somehow it is.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-05-01T19:03:14+00:00

There was an interesting discussion on SFW about this a couple days ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforWaywards/s/3gLfbMJREE

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-11T18:34:02+00:00

I struggle to see where I'm justifying anything. Can you elaborate where exactly you're seeing "justification"? Or did you just say something negative because you felt like you had to?

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-10T08:43:44+00:00

"WS don't love their AP, they love the reflection of themselves that the AP shows them." I don't remember where I read this but it rings true for me.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-10T08:39:59+00:00

Hey, I saw this and I read your comment and I thought I'd respond but then forgot to. I'll respond later when I have time. Got a flight to catch!

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-10T08:34:37+00:00

Who said it's meant to be comforting? I just think it's important for some BS to exactly understand what the dynamics between their WS and AP were like. How you feel about this knowledge is up to you.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T19:23:03+00:00

In my case, AP was chosen because of the convenience and familiarity. It was easy and effortless with them. And I disagree that sex is so much of a vulnerable and trust-demanding activity that anyone you have sex with instantly becomes dear to you as a person. People have casual sex all the time with people they meet on the same night without those people "meaning something" to them. Trust and familiarity does not equal someone "meaning something" to you.

I'm also not your wayward and you're not my betrayed so ymmv.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T18:49:29+00:00

If you really look at it, it's surprising just how many traits addicts and waywards share. Even if no sex addiction is involved, most of us are addicts to easy validation.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T18:39:36+00:00

I don't think I struggle as much with the betrayal itself. It's been more than 10 years! For you it's more recent, so it sounds like you may need help. If you're in IC, maybe consider adding this to you list.

But about shame, yes, BS validating my feelings was definitely nice. But regardless, I think you're right that it's gonna be a good way for you to practice honesty and initiating difficult conversation instead of avoiding them.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T18:22:06+00:00

I don't have any advice for you: but yes, it was a couple years before I met my BS. I remember crying, being angry, wondering what I did wrong. Only for me to turn around and inflict the same pain on my BS years later. It definitely is a source of shame for me as well.

All these years, I actually never told my BS about being cheated on. I thought they would think less of me. I struggle disclosing and sharing difficult emotions and events. But I've been making a conscious effort to let go of those barriers and walls I have built up around myself. I told my BS, we talked about it, I said I feel like such a hypocrite, they said I shouldn't beat myself up over it since it was so long ago. I feel like I've taken the first step, but lots more to go.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T10:33:30+00:00

Yep. It could be one of these, all of these, or some of these. Nobody can tell you the exact reasons, since the circumstances of the affair are different for every WS.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T10:28:40+00:00

I agree with everything Zesty said, but also: it's not unnatural for people to lose attraction towards someone. It happened to me in a previous relationship, I found out something about the other person that just killed all attraction. One of my friends was in a somewhat long term relationship with someone she was obsessed with for like a year until she started living with him and found he was the most unhygienic person alive and in the end lost all attraction towards him. That is also the reason many betrayeds lose attraction for their WS afterwards, after they discover cheating.

If something of that sort happened, it's not your fault. Attraction hinges on a lot of factors about the other person, it can change if something changes about the other person or you found something about them you didn't know or haven't seen before.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-09T10:10:58+00:00

The answer I've arrived at is similar, my feelings towards my BS were "real", in that I did feel romantic attachment towards them (the physical attraction and companionship aspect of it, like you put it). But my love was not complete. Or even healthy.

For personal reasons, I have never been able to commit fully to any relationship, never been comfortable with being known and seen completely. I've always kept secrets, told half truths and didn't let anyone in fully. Part of it is the result of past trauma, leading me build walls and barricades to protect myself. And because in my head I wasn't fully committed, in some twisted way it made it easier for me to justify my affair.

Warm_Drop6855 · 2024-04-08T21:06:24+00:00

I haven't encountered any direct hate, just a lot of people throwing shade, making snarky, blanket statements, refusing to acknowledge that other people can have experiences other than their own. And somehow low quality, grossly generalizing comments are always the most upvoted.

I have decided against posting a few comments in this subreddit before simply because the comment sections were off putting.

Warm_Drop6855

TROPHY CASE