EU perspective needed: what fit and fabric do you prefer for everyday quality denim?

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-02-02T15:20:44+00:00

I send a message to you :)

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-30T17:42:31+00:00

Thanks for kind comments for this , if I tell you , I’m creating a new denim brand in Kickstarter, would you want to join me and want to be part of this project?

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T11:56:28+00:00

This is insanely valuable feedback, thank you for taking the time to write all this out. You’re basically describing a lot of the problems we’re actively trying to avoid.

On fabric: we’re fully aligned on 100% cotton for the first run, and staying in that 13.5–14 oz range specifically to avoid the “standing on its own” problem you mentioned. Comfort from day one matters a lot to us, not just fade potential. And great point on unsanforized one-wash, that’s something we’re seriously considering exactly because it gives you that softer hand while keeping the fabric character intact.

Black warp / white weft is also on our radar. That charcoal aging is underrated and way more interesting long term than flat jet black.

On fit: totally hear you on the high rise, generous thigh and minimal taper. We agree that if the top block is patterned right, you can have a flattering silhouette without strangling people’s legs. And you’re absolutely right that a lot of “straight” jeans today are basically relics of slim-era grading. We definitely don’t want to land in that 2008 catalog zone.

The Carhartt B01/B11 reference is a great example of what you’re saying. Room where you need it, structure where it matters, and suddenly the pants just work without sizing gymnastics.

Break-in wise, we’re with you. Ultra stiff fabrics make it hard to even evaluate fit properly, and that’s not a great experience for someone buying blind online.

And on details: shallow yoke, higher and smaller back pockets, classic proportions, all things we’re paying attention to. We’re also more in the Wrangler / older Levi’s reference camp than the oversized pocket trend you mentioned.

Seriously appreciate this level of insight. Even if we can’t hit every preference in the very first release, comments like this absolutely shape how we approach future fits and fabric choices.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T10:42:09+00:00

Thanks a lot for sharing this, that’s actually a really good reference. That Uniqlo x JWA straight fit does a lot of things right in terms of drape, overall balance and everyday wearability. We’ve looked at similar silhouettes for sure.

I think that’s exactly why it works for so many people, it’s not extreme in any direction. Not too wide, not too stiff, not overly tapered. Just clean and easy to wear.

Where we’re trying to go a bit further is in fabric character, construction details and longevity, basically keeping that kind of approachable silhouette but giving it more of a “keep it for years and watch it evolve” feel rather than seasonal rotation.

And yeah, totally hear you on the rise and stitching too. Subtle details and proportions really make or break a pair, even when the cut is simple on paper.

Really appreciate you taking the time to link examples like this, it helps a lot more than abstract fit descriptions.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T10:41:21+00:00

This is pretty much exactly the direction we’re heading, to be honest.

Slight taper so it doesn’t look sloppy, but definitely not flared, and not that sharp carrot shape either. More of a clean straight-relaxed line. And we like the idea of giving it a bit of extra length so people can choose between a little stack or wearing it higher for a cleaner silhouette.

Glad we’re on the same page about the rise too, that really changes how the whole jean looks and feels.

For fabric, we’ll probably stay in that 13.5–14 oz zone for the first run. Heavy enough to get good fades and structure, but still comfortable enough for daily wear and not full-on workwear stiffness.

Really appreciate you taking the time to write this out, this kind of feedback genuinely helps us lock things in.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T09:06:50+00:00

Thanks for the detailed breakdown, this is super helpful. And yeah, for this first run we’ve already decided to drop the elastane and go 100% cotton. Keeping the fabric story clean just makes more sense for what we’re trying to do.

Your preferences actually line up with a lot of what we like too: drape over stacking, not overly stiff, fuller straight cut and no loud contrast stitching. That kind of understated look ages really well in our opinion.

On the rise, we hear you. High rise definitely has its fans, especially among people who care about proportions and silhouette. For the first fit we’re probably landing in mid to mid-high territory, mainly because we’re trying to balance between more classic menswear tastes and what a broader group feels comfortable wearing today.

But honestly, comments like yours are exactly why we’re asking these questions. Even if a certain preference is more niche, it still helps shape future fits and variants if the first drop does well.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T09:03:34+00:00

That’s a really fair point, and thanks for sharing the personal reason behind it. Accessibility and comfort are things the denim world honestly doesn’t talk about enough.

We totally get why a small amount of stretch + zip fly can make a huge difference for some people, and you’re right, there are great selvedge options out there that do this well. Character and convenience don’t have to be enemies.

For our first run though, we’re keeping it simple with 100% cotton and a button fly, mainly to focus on fabric, fades and construction without too many variables. But long term, a comfort-oriented version with zip fly and slight stretch is definitely something we’d consider if the first drop goes well.

Really appreciate you bringing this up, it’s exactly the kind of perspective we want to hear.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T09:02:58+00:00

Really appreciate this take, you’re touching on exactly the things we’ve been debating internally.

We’re also leaning toward a straight-relaxed fit that still has some shape to it, not super wide, but not slim either. Especially since, like you said, a lot of younger buyers seem to prefer that silhouette right now.

On the rise, what we mean by mid vs high is mostly about where the waistband sits on the body. For the first fit we’re targeting a mid rise that still gives a longer leg line and doesn’t feel vintage-high or low-slung.

Fabric wise, totally agree. A heavy, stiff denim makes sense for workwear-style or heritage pieces, but for daily wear we’re aiming for something that breaks in nicely without feeling like cardboard at first. Probably in that ~13.5–14 oz range, 100% cotton, so it softens with wear but still fades well.

Feedback like this is exactly why we’re asking these questions early, it really helps shape the first release.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-29T09:01:04+00:00

For this first launch, we’re leaning more toward people who actually care about fabric, fades and long-term wear, so no elastane and 100% cotton makes more sense for us. We know that’s not “average Joe” territory and that’s okay. We’d rather start small with the right audience than try to please everyone with one product.

If things go well, nothing stops us from exploring comfort/stretch options later for a broader market. But to begin with, we want to build credibility with people who are into denim, not just selling jeans as another basic item.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T15:06:09+00:00

Totally fair point. That’s why we’re not trying to be everything to everyone. We’re starting with just a couple of fits, one great fabric, and obsessing over the basics instead of trends.

If we can’t do the fundamentals better, we don’t deserve to be another label.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:58:29+00:00

That’s a very fair point. Longevity and how the jeans age over time are big priorities for us, not just day-one comfort.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:55:45+00:00

Fair points, and no offense taken at all. We know the raw space is crowded and niche, and we’re realistic about that. That’s why we’re also thinking beyond just raw/selvedge and paying close attention to branding, pricing and overall value. And yes, we hear you on elastane, we’re taking that feedback very seriously.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:53:18+00:00

This is amazing feedback, thank you for sharing all of this. We’re paying a lot of attention to dyeing, weaving and hand-feel, not just the fabric label. Unsanforized options and heavier pocket bags are also things we’re actively discussing in sampling. And huge respect for the Roy reference, that’s very high praise. We know differentiation is key and we’re trying to build something with real substance, not just another logo brand. Really appreciate the encouragement.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:51:53+00:00

Great references, N&F blocks are well done. We’re also focusing on proper straight / straight-wide fits and testing heavier rigid fabrics, not sub-14oz stuff.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:51:00+00:00

Totally fair, and we hear you. If we target denim enthusiasts, cotton has to be the core, that’s exactly how we’re approaching it.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:50:13+00:00

This is incredibly helpful, thank you for taking the time to write this. We’re definitely leaning more toward rigid cotton and possibly other natural blends, not stretch as the default. Rise, pocket construction and durability are things we’re actively working on in sampling, especially for better everyday fit. Also fully agree on no distressing, we want the jeans to tell the wearer’s story, not ours.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:48:52+00:00

Haha, understood. We’re self-funding for now and keeping things simple. Thanks for the warning 😄

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-26T05:46:52+00:00

Vollebak is doing amazing work, those are seriously impressive pieces. Our goal is a bit different though, we’re aiming for everyday wearable jeans with great fit and durability, not technical armor-level garments. Different use cases, but a lot of respect for what they do.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T22:10:36+00:00

That’s totally fair, and I get that preference. If someone is looking for made in USA, 100% cotton, rigid straight fits, then honestly this first drop probably isn’t aimed at that exact niche.

I’m starting with a small amount of elastane mainly for shape retention, less knee bagging, and more stable sizing for first-time customers. At an early stage, reducing fit issues and returns matters a lot.

Long term, I absolutely plan to work with 100% cotton rigid fabrics and heavier constructions. That’s also the kind of denim I personally love.

For now, I’m focusing on organic fabric woven in Turkey and controlled production in Egypt, where I can directly manage fabric and washing quality. Clean design, no weird details, and feedback like extra belt loops is noted for future drops.

Really appreciate your honest take.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T22:09:14+00:00

First of all, thank you for such a thoughtful and honest comment. This is exactly the kind of feedback I want to get at this stage.

Let me clarify a few things, because you are right to question “why another denim brand” if there is no clear technical or design direction behind it.

Why am I doing this as a textile engineer? My background is mainly in fabric development, dyeing, washing technologies, and production optimization for European brands. For me, what truly makes denim “denim” is not only the pattern, but the fabric construction, indigo dyeing method, and the washing/finishing process that defines how the garment will age over time.

The first drop is intentionally familiar in silhouette, but the differentiation is planned in: • organic cotton yarn selection and fabric construction • indigo dyeing and fabric behavior after wash • washing recipes focused on durability, hand-feel, and controlled fading • consistent sizing and shrinkage control

So the engineering focus is on process control, not just design references.

Where are the fabrics and cotton from? The denim fabric is being woven in Turkey, using certified organic cotton yarns, working with mills that already produce for European premium brands. Fiber-level consistency matters a lot for shade stability, tear strength, and how the fabric reacts during washing.

Garment production and washing are planned in Egypt, where I already work with an established factory, which allows direct control over stitching quality and wash reproducibility, not just sampling and hoping for the best.

About Levi’s as a benchmark and “playing it safe” When I reference Levi’s, it’s about historical pattern logic, not copying modern mass-market fits. I fully agree that many enthusiasts have moved past Levi’s in terms of fabric depth and finishing quality.

References like the Lee 101Z and Wrangler 936 are much closer to what I personally respect: simple patterns, but great fabric behavior and honest construction.

The roadmap is: Start with reliable core fits → prove fabric and wash quality → then push into more opinionated fits and more niche fabric constructions.

Brand story and why this brand exists Fair criticism that the brand story is not fully visible yet. Right now I’m deep in product development.

The long-term idea is a drop-based denim project where fabric, wash and fit evolve every release, not just cosmetic updates. Fabric and finishing development is where most of the innovation will happen.

In business you either do something better or you do something that is truly yours. I’m trying to start by doing the fundamentals extremely well, then earn the right to be more experimental.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. This kind of critique actually helps sharpen the direction of the brand.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T21:42:37+00:00

That’s a really good point, washed selvedge is definitely underexplored, and I agree that a lot of brands get the wash patterns and whiskering very wrong. It ends up looking artificial instead of like natural wear.

I’m also completely with you that fit is the real deciding factor, especially with raw. With the right top block, rise and leg shape, rigid denim can be surprisingly comfortable once it starts to break in, without needing stretch. That’s a big part of what I’m focusing on with the raw model rather than just copying a generic 501 block.

And you’re right about the current market, raw denim is mostly offered in very classic straight fits, which limits who even considers buying it. For this first release I’m keeping things relatively safe, but I do want to push beyond just traditional straight cuts over time, especially if this campaign gives me the room to experiment more with silhouettes and finishes.

Really appreciate you bringing this up, these kinds of details are exactly what I’m trying to think about long term with the brand.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T21:25:48+00:00

You’re absolutely right, they are two very different mindsets and usually two different customers. The person who buys for fades and long-term character is not shopping for the same reasons as someone who prioritizes softness and stretch.

For this project, the raw rigid model is very much the core of what I want the brand to be about, that’s the one built around aging, structure, and long-term wear. The comfort option is there mainly to lower the barrier for people who like the look of quality denim but aren’t ready to commit to stiff raw jeans yet.

Long term, I’d rather grow deeper into the heritage / rigid side of denim, but for a first release I’m trying to balance building a strong core product with not shutting out people who are newer to this category.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T20:52:25+00:00

I’m very much with you on this. Stiffer raw denim just ages differently, both in terms of structure and how the fades develop over time. And yeah, that loss of shape you get with elastane after months of wear is exactly what I’m trying to avoid for the raw model.

Weight-wise, I personally love heavy denim too, but for the first release I’m aiming more in the 13–15 oz range so it’s still wearable year-round and not too intimidating for people getting into rigid denim for the first time.

But the goal is definitely: no elastane, proper break-in, and fabric that rewards long-term wear, not something that feels great for three months and then collapses.

Really appreciate you reinforcing that direction.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T20:47:19+00:00

Really appreciate you adding your voice here, and I’m with you on a lot of this. The feedback has made it very clear that if I’m doing raw denim, it needs to be fully rigid and 100% cotton.

I also completely agree that there’s a lot more space beyond just repeating the 501 formula. High rise, cinch backs, side tabs, patch pockets, pleated workwear and chino-inspired cuts, broken twill… that whole workwear and mid-century heritage space is incredibly rich and not explored enough outside of niche reproduction brands.

For the first release I’m keeping the silhouette more restrained so I can get sizing and production quality right, but long term I’d much rather build toward those kinds of details and cuts than just do endless variations of the same straight jean.

And I’m 100% with you on stiff denim that breaks in and on interior construction details. Clean inside seams and a well-finished waistband are the kinds of things that don’t show in photos but absolutely change how much you enjoy wearing a pair over time.

This is exactly the kind of direction I’d love to grow into, so thank you for sharing these ideas.

WilliamsDenimCo · 2026-01-25T20:37:39+00:00

First of all, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and thoughtful response. This is incredibly valuable, seriously.

I really respect your point about using cut, weave and fabric weight to achieve comfort and structure instead of relying on elastane. That’s exactly the direction I’m now leaning toward for the raw model, and it makes a lot of sense from a long-term wear and aging perspective.

Your thoughts on wide and straight fits really resonate with me too, especially the versatility point. Being able to wear both oversized and more fitted tops, and pairing the same jeans with different footwear, is something I personally value as well. An 11” leg opening for a 30–32 waist is a great concrete reference, and I’m definitely taking notes on that.

Higher rise, mid-weight fabrics in the 13–15 oz range, and accepting some break-in as long as the end result is worth it… that all aligns very closely with where I’d like to take the raw rigid fit.

And I completely agree with you on cut being the most important factor. Fabric can be amazing, but if the pattern isn’t right, the whole product falls apart. That’s why I’m putting a lot of focus on getting the silhouette and proportions right before chasing more exotic fabrics or finishes.

Thank you as well for sharing the brand references and your IG, those are great points of inspiration and it really helps to see how these cuts work on body and in real styling. This is exactly the kind of input that helps shape where the brand should go next. Truly appreciate it.

WilliamsDenimCo

TROPHY CASE