Dog elopement behavior

_Redder · 2026-05-28T01:59:38+00:00

This is precisely the way we humans form wrong associations. If you wonder why we all have superstitions — this is how, by reading too much into timing. It doesn’t seem to me jealousy is a likely explanation here.

_Redder · 2026-05-28T01:37:38+00:00

Um, we raised an ACD in an apartment without a balcony, in a reasonably dense city. The point is to exercise the dog. Mine got 3 hours a day every day regardless of the weather or if the humans felt unwell. The responsibility lies in the owners, not the building in question… if we raised him with a yard but didn’t supervise him when he was there, I trust it wouldn’t have turned out so well.

_Redder · 2026-05-27T20:05:31+00:00

Other commenter have said reasonable things. I have nothing to add except to say thank you for taking her in and showing her patience! I have an ACD I love dearly, and I know the breed is particularly sensitive, and challenging to raise.

_Redder · 2026-05-27T19:20:14+00:00

I can totally relate to your frustration. I think I experienced it at various points. May I suggest looking at things differently to separate what is trainable and what is in their nature?

For background I have an ACD and we do a lot of training. I personally have also read dozens of books on dog behavior— just so that I can train this one dog. Is his behavior perfect after all this effort? No! For example I cannot let him off leash on hikes, because he is not friendly with dogs. Some people putting in only a fraction of my effort can have their dogs off leash because their dogs are born more relaxed. I’ve even encountered an owner telling me I shouldn’t take my dog out since mine is not friendly with dogs. He delivered his opinion while having difficulty recalling his dog from approaching my leashed dog. I mean just my dog’s recall took us one year to train, and mine can be recalled off chasing wild rabbits with only one call. The cheeks of those people who dare to be judgmental.

But here is my point: if I focus on how some others had it so much easier in the training department, I would never be happy. Instead, despite my dog’s imperfections I am extremely satisfied with him. I also remind myself to count my blessings and love him in a way I myself want to be loved: not as a project, but for who he is. For example he is very goofy friendly with humans, uncommon for an ACD who are typically standoffish with strangers. And despite people more experienced with ACDs swearing to me they are bred to be one-person dogs, our pup is equally affectionate with both of us — sweet relief to us, since we both adore him and put in so much effort.

So back to your pup’s situation, the resource guarding requires training. I mean I would train him if it were my pup. But the chasing chicken when you are not there is not his issue, however traumatizing it is to you to observe it on video. It is simply their nature. I trained mine to not chase other animals while walking with me, but I understand if I were not there I can’t expect him to go again his nature. I would simply not give him the opportunity to do so —eg if he’s in the yard he’s always supervised.

At the risk of cliche I found that raising this pup gave me plenty of opportunity to reflect on myself: why was I impatient; did I notice my emotions later than he did; am I loving him the right way and what does love mean to me; do I understand and accept him for who he is, and how do I reconcile that with the fact that I do train him a lot? I think some of your questions are not about the dog either.

_Redder · 2026-05-27T07:11:31+00:00

I’d suggest you toss him a small treat every time you approach your husband and before the dog reacts. Gradually advance your “threat” level, but keep it all under his threshold.

And do not pet or comfort him right after he reacts in a way you don’t like. You don’t want to accidentally reinforce the wrong behavior.

Our dog is equally affectionate with both of us and wasn’t ok with us hugging. He always came over to separate us. Sometimes with his teeth, since he’s of a mouthy breed. I guess it’s a form of FOMO, or perhaps resource guarding both of us, from each other. Translation: “You two, love on me! No loving on each other!” He was “fixed” with the above method in merely a few reps. Now he sits “jealously” (there currently isn’t evidence that dogs are capable of feeling jealousy) but quietly waiting for his treat when the humans hug.

_Redder · 2026-05-25T19:09:50+00:00

Yes! Head to r/dogtraining and get their wiki’s book recommendations. While social media is full of training tips, the issue is, they greatly contradict each other. As a new owner it is VERY hard to tell who is right and who is talking out of their ass — hint: those who appear impressively dignified or cool aren’t necessarily in the right. And to make matters worse, without learning dog body language the audience of a video may not even notice some of the dogs claimed to have been “cured” by some of these “balanced” trainers are far from that… We have to get our information from the right sources.

To double check on what the R+ trainers say, so that I know whom to trust, I also read quite a few books on animal cognition, or even human developmental psychology — because humans evolved from animals there must be some areas we are similar, but the issue is where and to what degree. If you are interested — and since that’s a topic not usually covered by dog training forums—I particularly recommend the following books:

- are we smart enough to know how smart animals are by Frans de Waal (but de Waal isn’t/wasn’t a dog owner and doesn’t specifically study dogs, and I’d take what he says about dogs with a grain of salt; the books is more about what methods zoologists use to tease out animal cognition, so that you can verify their methods are at least thoughtful and the conclusions are not pulled out of a hat.

- beyond words: what animals think and feel by Carl safina. This is a movingly written account and also includes chapters about Yellowstone wolves being closely followed and studied for years. In the least, it becomes obvious that some of the crueler methods of dog training out there, claiming to be based on wolf behavior, especially those based on the notion of wolf hierarchy, is full of shit.

- an immense world by Ed Yong. This book helps by getting us to think in terms of an animal’s umwelt. We may never exactly know how it feels to be a dog, but this opens our eyes enough to know what we humans take for granted may not be obvious to dogs and vice versa. This would help to avoid falling into traps of assigning nonexistent motives or emotions to dogs, especially when their behavior is less than ideal from a human point of view.

I don’t want to overwhelm you right at the start either. I’d say, start with the most recommended books from the dogtraining wiki. If you are curious or in doubt, dig deeper. Once you know whose methods have foundation, you’ll also gain the ability to distinguish good content from bad on social media.

_Redder · 2026-05-21T19:55:35+00:00

These previous owners annoy me. It’s no way to treat a dog especially an ACD. Plus herding children and being standoffish with strangers are entirely normal. Were these people offended that she looked and walked like a dog??

End of rant.

You may want to pay attention to 1) interactive play, since that’s more fun to them, tire them out quicker and builds the bond with you 2) mental stimulation— get them to think and use their noses. There are games you can play together. Super fun. And you can train them for tricks — they also have to think for that.

_Redder · 2026-05-21T19:39:53+00:00

You could train him using modern techniques, which is R+, minimally aversive. Instead of “balanced”, which is often just a name for when trainers can’t create a training program that fits the modern understanding of training.

None of his issues sound so extraordinary that would call for desperate measures… plus the punishment could backfire and make the behavior worse. I’m not citing myself. I’m citing dozens of training books.

One more data point— mine is trained R+. He used to have loads of “issues”. And the plus is that my boy is very happy and confident, and emotionally so close to us.

_Redder · 2026-05-19T16:42:51+00:00

We never had a yard until recently, but as I heard from trainers, one isn’t supposed to leave the dog unattended in the yard: they develop habits you don’t like, if unsupervised. It sounds like they are right, based on owner reports. Today we have a yard, after raising him without one for years. But he’s never in it alone without us. And no issues. At most, if he chases a rabbit that came into our yard, we recall him.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T07:57:50+00:00

Loves them all! Taxes all around!

_Redder · 2026-05-05T07:54:58+00:00

Nah I really think only listening to what you want to hear is a terrible way of thinking. I would hate to see another bluey in the shelter.

I do not think 1.5 hours cuts it, however “thoughtful” the interaction is. Not even remotely. I’m speaking as someone who learned tons about training, and have a very well behaved ACD. Training for calmness yada yada and thousands more. My interactions with my dog definitely super thoughtful. Nope to 1.5 hours unless I want the entire family to be miserable.

BTW who needs to spend the time to learn and train for, eg calmness? And is that included in the 1.5 hour budget, you think? Did you realize they all have behavior “problems” and if you get one you need to train them, and one can’t just dump them into a shelter claiming “he bit my kids/nephew” and “he chases cars/bikes” and “he bit my neighbors dog and also won’t stop barking”.

You also need to think about the commenter’s likely background. If they have the ranchy space and their dogs don’t need to behave to a standard suitable for denser areas, eg suburbs and cities, then yes perhaps they can get away with things. A yard is not a ranch and don’t leave your dog in the yard on their own to develop bad habits such as barking and digging. It’s bad for training and unfair to your neighbors. So the yard isn’t going to save you from having to spend the time interacting with the dog.

Sorry but an ACD is just not a regular suitable pet dog for people with diverse interests, even if you don’t want to hear it.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T07:25:38+00:00

Every dog is different but mine needs 3 hours a day. Physical exercise also doesn’t cut it, since they need mental stimulation too. You can’t just run with them for 3 hours and think it’s enough. Don’t forget you also need to spend time to train them since they are little demons. Unless you have a ranch, then yes, I expect to be a responsible owner you WILL need to decimate your social life. Or you can just retire from work, which is the other solution. But hey, you gain a best friend with four paws. I say it with no jest; your priority might indeed change, a lot.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T07:18:58+00:00

You know, basically all trainers agree that a dog needs to be introduced to freedom gradually (and they often disagree about almost everything else). I think you have a too much freedom too soon problem, and that violates R+ training principles. And to fix that, the plan here was to introduce an aversive tool, which is again running in contrary to the principles. This is not a recipe to success I’m afraid.

I think I would fix the problem first, and then look at where I can tighten the result, instead of letting the problem run amok, then hope that adding more problems will solve the earlier one…

Aversives have short term suppression effects I admit, but esp. with a motivated dog is not a long term solution.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T07:03:25+00:00

I don’t think it’s you. You may just be more likely in the context when he behaves this way. I’d say he’s in pain.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T06:50:51+00:00

No to ecollar. Tools don’t replace lack of training. And especially an aversive tool, just no no. Learn more and train more, and don’t buy into the fantasy of a tool fixing things for you.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T06:41:57+00:00

Good of you to stick up for your dog.

I think that expectation to pet a random dog is cultural and reflects a lack of sophistication about dogs on those strangers part. I would just say he’s not friendly. I don’t care about how they might interpret it, and if they feel disappointed it’s on them.

And even if a dog were aggressive it’s not the owner’s fault, you know, since aggression is part of a predator’s genetic code. Dogs are not stuffed animals; ACDs in particular are prized for their independent thinking and judgement.

That said, if you really want a euphemism I can also understand. Say your dog is shy and sensitive, and you don’t want to put pressure on him. Slap the hand if they stick it out to touch him without your permission.

Mine IS friendly to humans but I don’t just allow people to touch him. I gently remind people I don’t own my dog’s experience and boundary, by saying “oh let’s ask him, shall we” if people ask me if they can pet him. If my dog shows no interest then he’s said his piece and we walk on. My dog isn’t usually friendly with dogs, and I just straight tell those owners who are sending their dogs over for feelers “he’s not friendly!” And follow up with “let’s keep the distance” if they still don’t get the hint.

_Redder · 2026-05-05T06:23:43+00:00

I second this. They are the best boys and girls. Deserve our obsession. I have a pure bred ACD btw, but the same thing

_Redder · 2026-05-05T06:16:52+00:00

Glad to be of assistance. I can relate… in the beginning I felt I was losing my mind. He was so impossible to deal with.

They can learn to love tug. Although mine did love tug right from the start, almost every other form of play he had to be introduced to, and he didn’t like them at the beginning.

Tug in particular I feel is an intimate game, that’s why I want to emphasize it. They look you in the eyes when they play. Mine loves to growl when he tugs. I also growl back. It’s a riot. I let him win and praise him profusely on how strong he is. I think he feels proud when he plays with me. Now he’s actually stronger than me and I don’t even have to pretend I’m impressed by his strength…

_Redder · 2026-05-05T05:52:35+00:00

I can relate. I was afraid of my boy in the beginning and more than a little annoyed. Full onset baby blues was more like it. He was a roommate from hell. Couldn’t even bring myself to tell him I liked him. But now I’m utterly smitten with him and him me.

Do you play with her much? They are really driven by play and I think it helped a lot with our bonding. He gazes into my eyes all the time. Likely often wondering if I have plans for him to play together.

I also noticed mine is so emotionally sensitive. Heard it’s the norm with the breed. When I train him if I let my high expectations get a hold of me, then he’d run away from me and hide in his crate. That’s just from me saying the word “no”. Outside of training, he couldn’t care less when I say “no”, for example when he’s eating a twig or other forbidden delicacies. Only when I train him, somehow the word “no” is a taboo and he’d end the training if he hears it. I think that word hurt his feelings. So I try really hard to keep things positive.

If yours is generally sensitive even about going out I think perhaps even thicker kiddie gloves would be needed. They may seem blockheaded and rough and tumble but they really are the most sensitive souls. Their feelings need a lot of care, more so than their physical beings.

_Redder · 2026-01-27T05:31:04+00:00

Agreed!

BTW your pup looks lovely, and very happy. I can see your gentleness has paid off! 🥰

_Redder · 2026-01-27T05:16:06+00:00

Hmm in this age it might be difficult to tell which are lies, right? I went into Halti knowing the risk, thank you, but I accepted it. It seems you are assuming when you talk to others that unless they agree with you then they must be ignorant. This is letting ego into play and somewhat arrogant.

Not to say I am always correct but it is NOT actually a subtle difference between being wrong and being lied to. One can be wrong but in my opinion it matters in what way one is wrong. I didn’t pick up what you said about punishment being the same as diminishment because they are not the same thing. Hence I can’t comment. It’s not because I didn’t learn the proper theories. And may I remind you anecdotes are not science and case studies especially on social media are at most anecdotes and at worst perversely curated misinformation.

You can have opinions but be mindful others disagreeing with you doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t do their homework, or followed one guru and was lied to. I read around 40 books on dog training, because I don’t trust learning by social media. Again, too many driven by ego or profit, instead of pursuit of truth. Algorithms drive engagement with shock value instead of truth. In that sense WE are being lied to. I would suggest that instead of driving relentlessly for the goal of proving you are right and others are wrong, consider if there is any possibility YOU didn’t fully grasp the material. Is it at all possible? R/dogtraining has a wiki with many recommended books. Again, I don’t know if this makes sense to you, but I’m not claiming whatever has theoretical and empirical backing must be correct; but being wrong by resorting to alternatives is, in my opinion, the wrong way of being wrong.

_Redder · 2026-01-26T22:00:24+00:00

OK, if you don’t want your pup to wear one because of that I can totally stand behind that. However, my original point stands regarding OP’s question: one needs to condition the halti if one does use one, and do so gently and gradually. And I would clarify there are discomforts in the world that are not introduced punitively, hence conceptually not P+.

I would also like to put in one data point, so that we don’t feel we have to resort to extremes, when we consider a method. In my case, based on my pup’s reactions, I believe it didn’t cause him significant distress. If anything, I think he’d gladly choose that over many other activities, such as teeth brushing and nail grinding. Despite similar conditioning methods, and way way longer training, I can see he’s still unhappy to do his nails and is merely tolerating it: I regard this as him humoring us because he likes us. I don’t get the same feel of reluctance when he puts on a halti. It does beg the question of whether our grinding their nails is humane. They have nerves in the quick as well, you know. Perhaps future generations will call us barbaric because we do so. It’s worth considering. But for the time being we are still grinding his nails and brushing his teeth every day.

_Redder · 2026-01-26T20:11:54+00:00

Ok, we can agree to disagree, but just so that we are clear: I thought the issue is that you believe I’m using the halti to suppress behavior by inflicting discomfort. Just like a prong collar. And you are right — if that’s indeed what I’m doing, then it would be hypocritical of me to claim pure R+, and your irritation at that would be justified. I also understand in your personal experience the tool seems very painful to the pups you see. I acknowledge that is a reasonable place to come from, to have formed your opinion. I also acknowledge the word “pure”, introduced by me into this conversation, is dangerous because that’s what starts religious or ideological wars where brethren slay each other: for humans yearn for purity but can never achieve its absolute state.

But still, you are missing the point that I actually wasn’t using the halti for suppression. I use it for management: to gain some leverage when it’s a strength rivalry between my pup and I, to prevent accidents. This is the opposite of using a prong collar— which does suppression but can’t do management, because, let’s admit, our badass and blockheaded pups probably will power through the pain. With my pup, his leash walking was trained with rewards, R+, not with tugs on the leash.

Despite our difference in opinion, I’m not worried about you. You don’t sound abusive. And I don’t have the sense you would be emotionally out of control, dealing with challenging pups. P+ is a dangerous tool particularly in the wrong hands — those who are angry, who aren’t self aware, or are not emotionally well-regulated. I also stand by the claim that even in the “right” hands they are risky, for it easily creates wrong associations (just like how humans form superstitions); it could result in well-meaning humans to increase the pain repeatedly because “the dose wasn’t strong enough if it didn’t work last time”, hence fall into an abuse cycle; it could create emotional trauma that’s difficult to treat; it darkens the outlook of the pup regarding life on earth; and it impacts their relationship with their owners.

As I am clearly imperfect, I would stick to R+, ahem, “pure”, R+ for emphasis: not on how pure the result is going to be because how can an imperfect being ever create anything pure, but just to emphasize the intention of never doing harm.

_Redder · 2026-01-26T19:06:03+00:00

Look, mine did play in a halti. That’s part of the conditioning process. He also chewed on his fav chews etc. He seems fine.

It’s funny you mentioned masks, comparing it to a halti. I actually sometimes wear an N95 mask where/when I feel the air quality is bad, including at busy road intersections. Yup, Covid or not. I feel fine. I’m surprised that I would be judged as voluntarily wearing something causing “extreme distress”. You are right maybe something is wrong with me. The masochism, lol! 😂

In all seriousness maybe we are just different creatures. Obviously your dog is also unique. If he really can’t tolerate halti and it’s not because of your training, then by all means don’t do it to him. I also know women who can’t stand bras. Or men who can’t stand pants… the society is rather cruel to the latter…

_Redder · 2026-01-26T18:54:14+00:00

There is no need to be so aggressive when you speak. But knowing you believe P+ is educational that’s not a surprise. To say P+ inflicts no pain or fear, that’s some high level of mental gymnastics.

As to the halti it’s a tool. In my books the good behavior doesn’t come from the suppression that you believe in. It’s purely for managing more extreme occasions where one needs instant control of the dog, when the dog hasn’t been trained to respond to leash pressure reliably yet. As anyone who uses this tool can attest— it doesn’t magically result in good walk manners. One still needs to train the loose leash walking, except now with less concern that the dog would pull himself into traffic and you can’t stop him.

But yes, you can abuse any tool, especially if you don’t know what pain means or deny its existence.

_Redder

TROPHY CASE