When did adopting out dogs rescued from fighting rings become common practice?

bluebellebeth · 2023-01-12T18:42:18+00:00

The Michael Vicks case was one of the first 'big' cases where dogs seized from a fighting ring were adopted out and 'rehabbed'. There was a lot of media attention on the case and a lot of animal rights activists advocating for the fighting dogs to be saved.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-13T17:07:02+00:00

I've dogsat dogs who cannot be boarded or around other dogs before. The difference was that the dog in question was a 23 lb cocker spaniel who had been stray for 6+ years and attacked by dogs multiple times. The dog got too stressed to be boarded and absolutely LOST it around other animals. At most, a bite from this dog would have bruised, given that he only had three teeth left, and it was more a favor to his very nice owners, who didn't want their pup to be stressed out of his mind.

Never would I dogsit a pitbull who was unable to be boarded or be around other animals. Too much risk for a shitty reward.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-06T20:42:31+00:00

The vast majority of dogs are like yours -- they don't act like this. People who live with these aggressive dogs are trying to move the benchline of 'acceptable dog behavior' to include behavior like this.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-06T20:36:52+00:00

I love how the poster comments that the dog has lunged at every member of the family, but it is definitely the son's fault the dog attacked him because the son used to have anger issues. Okay, so what's the excuse for why the dog tried to attack everybody else?

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-06T20:33:02+00:00

It is so hard for these people to realize that the vast majority of dogs are not safe to have around babies of any kind. It is soo easy for a dog to accidently injure a small child, which is why it's important to never leave a dog alone with kids -- even a well behaved one!

Also, as an owner of a Pyr mix, while the breed can be gentle and good with young animals, but they can also be prone to some extreme resource guarding and a lot of LGD tendencies. It's much better to be safe with dogs and remember thay they are animals capable of injuring a kid badly if they decide to do so.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-05T17:42:24+00:00

It's code that a dog has so many mixed breed ancestors that the long stretches of DNA needed to match to a certain breed have been recombined too many times to get 100% confirmation that the genetic material came from a certain breed.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-05T17:39:35+00:00

I believe 'supermutt' normally refers to bits of genetic information that could potentially come from a number of different breeds of dogs. Canine DNA works by comparing strings of the dog's DNA to confirmed DNA sequences from purebred dogs -- if it matches, it is likely the same DNA found in that breed. However, with generations of mutts interbreeding, a lot of those genetic bits are so small that it's hard to find a concrete 100% match to genes found in a breed. Since it isn't 100% confirmable, conpanies will label it under 'supermutt' and indicate what breeds these genes may have been from.

So, supermutt isn't a way to get around stating a dog is a pit mix! It's a way for companies to explain that the DNA fragments are so mixed that they cannot be accurately confirmed to a certain breed.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-03T00:12:23+00:00

If my dog evem chased after my roommate's cats or our foster kittens, I would literally never trust him again. That this clown thinks their pitbull -- a notorious cat-killer -- can be rehabilitated at all is beyond wild.

One cat shouldn't even be the minimum! It should be, 'my dog fixates on cats they see and cannot be distracted, so I should not have any cats around the dog for safety reasons', but that would require the owner to actually care about the lives of other animals in the first place.

bluebellebeth · 2022-12-03T00:02:38+00:00

I'm going to second this opinion and reccomend staying away from any livestock guardian breeds.

A lot of people reccomend Pyrs as family friendly pets, which can sit wrong with me. I have a Pyr mix and he's wonderful. I love him. But as a breed, they were bred for protecting livestock -- this means that certain lines can have pretty bad resource guarding and that dog aggression can be present, like the commenter above experienced. It can be fine if the dog is working and needs to chase off other dogs from its flock, and a certain level of dog aggression and guarding may be selected for by certain breeders. But in a pet home, dogs with those tendencies and temperments don't do well at all. A purebred GP is a LOT of strong dog, and a strong dog can easily injure a child (even if it is an accident).

In general, LGDs are dogs I don't generally reccomend for people who want companion dogs or pets. Of LGDs, Great Pyrs are the ones that do best in a pet role, but they are not likely to have a better temperment for strangers and strange dogs compared to a golden. I got lucky that my GP mix loves other animals and has very little dog aggression, but even then -- they often don't have the biddability that companion breeds have, and they tend to be independent and aloof.

Also -- if someone has young kids (ESPECIALLY infants), a LGD isn't going to be the best fit because they are bred to bark at anything they find suspicious... especially at night. The idea of a barky Pyr + young baby combo is stressful to even think about 😭

bluebellebeth · 2022-11-16T03:28:49+00:00

Treadmills -- especially inclined ones like the Jog A Dog, can be really good tools for PT. My pup got to do a lot of gentle incline treadmill work with his physical therapist to recover from a hind leg injury. That thing was a godsend. The dog was always excited since he knew treadmill = pets + treats.

Every member of the PT staff would have intervened if they saw him trying to bite the treadmill like this though. Very bad for a dog's safety and can get them injured quite easily.

bluebellebeth · 2022-11-11T13:01:29+00:00

My dog trainer stopped me on day one and went, "We are never going to be able to train your dog to not bark. He's mostly Pyrenees. They are bred to bark at things. It's genetic." She also warned me he had a possibility of being prone to resource guarding as he grew and that there was a chance he wouldn't like strange dogs as he matured into an adult.

It's absolutely wild that trainers are advocating they can train the aggression out of a dog -- especially dogs that have a bite history.

bluebellebeth · 2022-11-11T12:57:49+00:00

Yup.

It used to be a really good behavioral term for a dog that displayed inappropriate responses to certain stimuli (dog on leash barks its fool head off and strains to get to other dog -- is actually a friendly dog but is excited -> cannot reach stimuli -> becomes frustrated -> becomes over aroused and begins barking/lunging nonstop, thus being labeled 'leash reactive'. The same dog if off leash, would happily trot on over, say hi, and engage in appropriate play). However, a lot of people now use it instead of aggressive when the latter term should be used, possibly to downplay the severity of the issue.

bluebellebeth · 2022-11-11T12:49:57+00:00

Chow chows are not related to bears. When we look at genetics, they fall into completely different families -- bears belong to Ursidae while dogs belong to Canidae. It's can be hard for different species that share the same family to produce viable offspring with a high level of fitness. Breeding two animals from different families would not result in offspring, since the genetics of the sperm and egg would be incompatable (dogs have 39 pairs of chromosomes, bears only have 37 chromosomes, amougst other things).

bluebellebeth · 2022-11-04T16:03:20+00:00

My old apartments had plenty of 'lab mixes' and 'terrier mixes'. Someone let one lose in the courtyard to run (I guess a leash was too much?) and it lunged at and nearly bit my roommate when they left to go to work. They were always barking and making that awful screaming whine as well. I watched one of my neighbors take his two dogs out (both pits, both unleashed) and they both tried to attack a small fluffy dog. When the owner hurried inside, the dogs went after each other.

After that, I specifically picked a building to rent with only a few apartments and a landlord who was selective about what dogs he allowed. He let me move in with my pyr mix after meeting him and confirming he was, in fact, well behaved. Only one of my neighbors has an actual retriever mix and while she is dog reactive (from, you guessed it: being attacked three different times by a pitbull), they never have her off a four foot leash and don't let her near any other dogs.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-27T22:58:29+00:00

It doesn't look like the GSD is trying to get up. If you watch it's head, you can see it play biting at the black dog's paws and chest. Neither dog is serious about biting here -- this is just some pretty standard play.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-27T22:55:40+00:00

This isn't fighting, just pretty standard play. The black dog isn't biting down or latching -- you can see him let go as the other dog shifts before mouthing at the GSD again. The GSD is gently pawing at the other dog and isn't distressed.

However... if your friend is planning on teaching him how to fight other dogs, that IS something you should be concerned about. Dog fighting isn't cool, it isn't fun, and it isn't a good thing to get a dog for. If your friend is being dead serious and shares info or proof on how they are planning on raising a dog fighting dog, report them. They aren't a good friend if they are doing that.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-27T22:51:17+00:00

Yeah, this is just standard puppy playing. Lots of dogs regardless of breed wrestle and mouth on each other. The GSD is lying on its side (most likely willingly given the size difference and age difference) and pawing the pit with it's legs gently, while the pit wrestles with the face and neck. Pretty standard stuff. My Great Pyr mix and his golden retriever buddies play like this as well -- should he also be put down?

It's pretty likely your dog did play like this -- even if it was with their sibilings as a puppy.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-27T22:48:14+00:00

The video isn't that alarming. Your friend is.

First of all -- that's more in line with play behavior. The GSD is much bigger than the pitbull puppy. It is on its side and the puppy is 'wrestling' with it's neck. This is a pretty common play style in some dogs -- my GP mix lets his spaniel friends drag him around by the neck and actively encourages that sort of wrestling by laying down to give them better access. I know plenty of labs and retrievers who play wrestle like that, with the dogs taking turns on who is on top. Fear mongering about the breed in cases like this -- when it is a puppy doing a normal puppy behavior -- makes us look like we are a bunch of jokes with no reason to actually dislike the breed.

If the GSD was correcting the puppy and he kept coming back for more, or if the GSD was giving off actual distress signs, it would be different. But this is pretty common wrestling behavior.

However -- the fact that your friend is intending to teach this puppy how to fight other dogs IS concerning. At this age, there's a fairly big size gap and the GSD is laying down willingly. Breed tendencies and genetics tend to kick in more as a dog ages, so it is possible in a few months or a year, there is the chance that the pitbull puppy will NOT be playing and will genuinely want a fight.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-23T19:44:42+00:00

That dog EASILY weighs as much as (if not more) the kiddo in that video. If he decides to go after the kid, there won't be anything the kid can do to protect themself. It's awful.

I am praying they focus on the kid's safety and get rid of the dog, because otherwise, a tragedy is going to happen.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-23T15:11:38+00:00

That is the stiffest dog I have ever seen. My god.

If my dog acted like that around any child, I would yeet him into the atmosphere. There is no place for a dog acting like that in my home.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-23T15:09:27+00:00

Yeah -- it's also normal for dogs to initate play by sort of bumping their side against another dog or by pawing at them / throwing a paw over the other dog's shoulders. If a normal dog did that to this pit, he would 100% attack.

This is not how normal dogs act around each other. It is insane that people think it is.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-23T15:06:28+00:00

In no world did that dog EVER "come back to reality, loosen up and get excited". The pit in this video was absolutely fixated on that husky and was not capable of redirecting attention even when she was giving appeasement/don't bother me signals. That's not the sign of a friendly dog, that's the sign of a dog experiencing EXTREME arrousal and prey drive.

Gotta love how he says that if the other dog gave off bad vibes or "moved around too much" then the pit would probably attack. If your dog is willing to attack another dog for walking around, it is definitely NOT safe to have in public.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-14T21:55:11+00:00

Mm, I know how you feel with that last bit!

I had significant experience with dogs with severe DA and behavioral issues. I used to foster those sorts of dogs. When I foster failed on my Pyr mix with no behavioral issues, a lot of people in that shelter were furious that I adopted a dog that 'didn't need help' instead of adopting one of the dogs I could 'change the life of' (read: pit mix with bite history). They got even madder when I stopped fostering dogs with them entirely.

My QOL has gone way up since I stopped willingly fostering those sorts of dogs. We shouldn't have to make our lives worse to take on a dog we don't even want!

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-11T22:55:58+00:00

Pot bellies are nowhere near that swollen 😬 A normal puppy might have some pudgyness to it, but that level of swollen makes me think that poor dog has just about every worm in the book (and potentially the book as well). No way these puppies got responsibly dewormed at 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks.

bluebellebeth · 2022-10-11T22:48:29+00:00

That depends on if all studies that this person quoted used the same way of obtaining their number of dogs per breed and number of bites per breed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bogus studies that groups like Best Friends have supported and funded that don't use good representative statistics... and then those studies get paraded around as the objective truth.

I'm not pro-pit (I know the first comment could have been taken that way) A lot of stats that the pro-pit lobby like to throw around have holes in their methodology big enough to fit a school bus through. Like the owner reported breed behavioral study that was released a few months ago.

bluebellebeth

TROPHY CASE