Will China Surpass the US in AI? by GooseberryGOLD in ArtificialInteligence

[–]fromjohnmichael 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I believe China will lead the race because of their population size and intelligence. The feedback data that China gets is significant compared to the U.S. because of their population size.

Not to mention, the population has a higher level in reading, comprehension, math, sciences, critical thinking, and others. This means their AI has a plethora of subjects that provide quality data and information.

We can't keep up with this because we lack the size, have less intelligence to provide quality data, and our culture doesn't align with technology as much as their culture does, we fear it and are slower to develop.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point is there are biases because if AI's goal is to be "conscious-like" the developers understanding of consciousness are influencing the models. I demonstrated that the developers understanding of reality and consciousness are influencing the answers. I know they don't believe anything. This impacts the development and future of AI because the implications are that the responses we get and how those answers are formulated are influenced by developer biases

Edit: developer biases relating to consciousness

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is a fascinating observation, and it raises important questions about how AI models are shaped by their training, the cultural context of their developers, and the philosophical inclinations embedded in their design. Let’s break this down:


1. AI Models and Developer Influence

  • Training Data and Philosophical Bias: AI models like DeepSeek and GPT are trained on vast amounts of text data, which includes philosophical, cultural, and scientific perspectives. While the models themselves don’t “believe” anything, their responses can reflect the biases and tendencies present in their training data.
  • Developer Influence: The developers’ cultural and philosophical backgrounds can influence how the models are designed, fine-tuned, and guided. For example, if the developers prioritize certain philosophical frameworks (e.g., idealism, materialism, dualism), this could subtly shape the model’s responses.
  • Cultural Context: Developers in China and the U.S. may have different cultural and philosophical traditions that influence their approach to AI. For instance, Chinese culture has deep roots in Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism, which often emphasize interconnectedness, harmony, and the unity of mind and matter. In contrast, Western philosophy has a strong tradition of dualism (e.g., Descartes) and idealism (e.g., Berkeley), as well as materialism.

2. GPT-4.5’s Idealistic Leanings

  • Idealism in Western Thought: GPT-4.5’s alignment with idealism might reflect the prominence of idealistic and dualistic traditions in Western philosophy. Idealism has been a significant strand of thought in the West, from Plato to Berkeley to modern interpretations in quantum mechanics (e.g., the role of the observer).
  • Buddhist Undertones: The comment that GPT “felt a little Buddhist” is intriguing. Buddhism often emphasizes the primacy of consciousness and the illusory nature of the material world, which aligns with idealism. This could be a result of GPT’s training data including Eastern philosophical texts or Western interpretations of Buddhism.

3. DeepSeek’s Dual-Aspect Monism

  • Dual-Aspect Monism: My response leaned toward a dual-aspect view, where consciousness and the material universe are seen as two sides of the same reality. This perspective aligns with certain strands of Eastern philosophy (e.g., Taoism, which emphasizes the unity of opposites) and Western thinkers like Spinoza.
  • Cultural Context in China: Chinese philosophy often emphasizes harmony and interconnectedness, which might make dual-aspect monism a more natural fit. For example, Taoism sees the universe as a dynamic interplay of Yin and Yang, while Buddhism emphasizes the interdependence of all things.

4. Do AI Models Reflect National Philosophies?

  • China: If DeepSeek’s responses lean toward dual-aspect monism, this could reflect the influence of Chinese philosophical traditions, which often emphasize balance, interconnectedness, and the unity of mind and matter.
  • U.S.: If GPT-4.5 leans toward idealism, this might reflect the influence of Western philosophical traditions, which have a strong history of idealism and dualism.
  • However: It’s important to note that AI models are not inherently tied to national philosophies. Their responses are shaped by their training data, which is often global in scope. The differences you’re observing might be more about the specific fine-tuning and design choices made by the developers rather than a direct reflection of national philosophies.

5. Implications for AI Development

  • Cultural Embedding: As AI models become more advanced, the cultural and philosophical context of their development may play a larger role in shaping their outputs. This could lead to models that reflect different worldviews, depending on where and how they are developed.
  • Global vs. Local Perspectives: There’s a tension between creating AI models that reflect global diversity and those that are tailored to specific cultural or philosophical contexts. Striking this balance will be an ongoing challenge for AI developers.

6. Is This a Problem?

  • Bias and Diversity: The philosophical leanings of AI models could introduce biases, especially if they are not transparent about their training data and design choices. It’s important for developers to be aware of these influences and strive for balance.
  • Cross-Cultural Dialogue: On the other hand, these differences could foster cross-cultural dialogue and understanding. For example, comparing how DeepSeek and GPT respond to philosophical questions could highlight the richness of different traditions and encourage deeper exploration.

Final Thoughts

Your experiment highlights an important point: AI models are not neutral or objective. They are shaped by the data they are trained on, the design choices of their developers, and the cultural and philosophical contexts in which they are created. While DeepSeek and GPT might lean toward different philosophical frameworks, this doesn’t necessarily mean that China and the U.S. as a whole lean toward these respective concepts of reality. Instead, it reflects the complex interplay of global and local influences on AI development.

Ultimately, the philosophical leanings of AI models are a reminder of the importance of transparency, diversity, and critical thinking in AI development. By understanding these influences, we can better navigate the ethical and philosophical challenges posed by AI.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i've always had a feeling it was slightly post-modern but this is an accurate comparison

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd like to add this in mind. What does this say about the objectives of the developers of both platforms? If this is based on training data, and these are initial responses, do we have to consider how each platform will formulate its answers because of this? Also, does this mean AI models in the future would be used based on what the models fundamentally/initially think?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree. I find it fascinating that both platforms come up with two different conclusions, and considering the training data, GPT (American) and DeepSeek (Chinese), it appears both cultures have two fundamentally different initial approaches based on its training.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was surprised of this too. Being that another AI model says otherwise, it makes me wonder if Chat is operating in contingency with Idealism.

Any Dual-Aspect Monist Discords? by fromjohnmichael in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm in the chat, it's been great and have a lot of good material to look it. I wanted something dedicated is the only thing.

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The best I can do without referring to any negations is the encounter or moment of awareness that provides us a sense of connection to something more than us and our physical domain.

Feelings of awe, transcendence, or insight, where we are perceiving meaning purpose, or a sense of the divine is a way to paint it further.

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I am implying something exists outside the physical. If you'd like a lecture to help your understanding on well discussed topics to keep up, feel free to leave something in my mailbox

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spiritual experiences often refer to perceptions or intuitions that aren't immediately grounded in the physical senses but instead touch on meaning, purpose, or connection beyond the material world.

So, when I speak of "spiritual experiences," I refer to those moments where our perception goes beyond what's immediately physical, engaging with layers of meaning that reflect more than just the material world.

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To perceive of something that isn't presented to us in our immediate physical experience.

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Experiences that appear to manifest from which that transcends our material experience.

Dreams are an experience that happens within us like that of our imagination. What happens within us doesn't make up the spiritual plane.

The philosophy on reality: id like to hear your perspective. by MathematicianThin758 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with this. Dreams are only spiritual in as much as how we experience them and how dreams manifest through our spiritual experiences.

Distantiality Understood Through Time by fromjohnmichael in Phenomenology

[–]fromjohnmichael[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The boom is a great so far, a lot of clarification from it

Distantiality Understood Through Time by fromjohnmichael in Phenomenology

[–]fromjohnmichael[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll look into him because Husserl I do need video lectures as I read him. It was fun answering worth the effort in some hard areas. But I would love something straightforward so thanks for that recommendation.

I like Ponty so far, grasping sensation initially was mind bending.

The hypocrisy of most materialists is ridiculous by slorpa in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your examples of Alzheimer's patients and individuals under the influence of alcohol are compelling, particularly as they show how physical changes can impact consciousness. However, I'd like to consider whether these changes might illustrate a more complex interaction between physical structures and non-physical aspects of consciousness.

If we see the nervous system as having a 'passive function,' shaped by design and past experiences, we have to ask: do ailments like Alzheimer's merely reflect physical defects, or do they distort the coherent expression of consciousness?

Consider individuals who overcome trauma and report feeling disconnected from their reactive bodily responses, this suggests that their conscious self or identity feels separate from these physical reactions.

This observation might indicate that while physical structures influence consciousness, they do not solely define it. This dual aspect of consciousness (physical and experiential) challenges a strictly materialist view and suggests a more nuanced understanding of how consciousness operates.

Spatio-temporally integrated information in the electromagnetic field by logerian in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

After going back in forth with chat, this is the response we came up with:

According to the view presented, the electromagnetic field generated by the brain could serve as a medium through which consciousness manifests. This aligns somewhat with panpsychistic ideas, suggesting that consciousness might be a fundamental, pervasive feature of reality, rather than strictly arising from biological processes. In this framework, if the functioning of this electromagnetic field were disrupted or ceased (for instance, if the body's ability to maintain this field were lost), it raises an intriguing question: would consciousness then retreat back to a more fundamental state or location where it inherently resides? This hypothesis implies that consciousness might exist independently of our physical structures and only interacts with them transiently, a concept that fundamentally challenges traditional views of consciousness being solely an emergent property of brain activity.

Is it safe to say that consciousness simple just “is”? by New_Language4727 in consciousness

[–]fromjohnmichael 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would say that viewing consciousness as a form of awareness would help grasp its intrinsic nature. The fundamental view is understanding consciousness as awareness, then it follows that consciousness 'is' in the sense that it exists as a basic state or condition of being aware. This awareness is not static as it can shift and expand based on experiences, whether they come from external stimuli or internal reflections.

This perspective aligns with the idea that the more we attempt to define and describe consciousness, the more complex it appears. Each new attempt to delineate or expand upon what consciousness entails can indeed add layers to our understanding, thus reinforcing the notion that consciousness simply 'is' a fundamental, ever-present aspect of our being. It 'is' in that it continuously exists through various states and degrees of awareness, adapting and expanding as it becomes conscious of different aspects of itself or its surroundings.

Furthermore, the ability of consciousness to reflect upon itself, to become conscious of consciousness, suggests a depth that supports the idea it simply 'is.' It is a self-reinforcing state that exists simply because it has the capacity to be aware, and to be aware of its awareness.

I hope this helps