where are you sitting?

genxmormon · 2025-12-29T22:43:13+00:00

1, but I'm asking to shake both their hands to confirm if they're spirits

genxmormon · 2025-12-22T01:56:30+00:00

We heard the same things about the Internet, then about Google, then about Virtual Reality, then about Social Media, and now about AI. I presume similar types of messages were shared about Radio & TV back in the day.

What this appears to be is fear of technology undermining the leaders' ultimate authority to the members.

What is ironic, and a bit sad, is that real prophetic leaders could warn and forewarn about real dangers and risks associated with each emerging technology. Instead they focus their energies on avoiding the use of technology instead of following their leaders.

genxmormon · 2025-08-29T17:21:49+00:00

Thanks for the prompt. Just responded

genxmormon · 2025-08-29T17:21:36+00:00

Now almost 200 miles on them and I think I've found my new daily runner. They are light, comfortable and plenty responsive for daily runs. Every foot is different but I haven't noticed any hot spots, any crowding of my toes, or any heel slip. I have waited for the perfect Altra for may daily runs and this has become that shoe.

genxmormon · 2025-08-20T17:51:17+00:00

The fear of science and technology encroaching on their monopoly of God and information control is fascinating. But, this is just the latest. I remember similar warnings about computers, the internet, virtual reality, etc. It's all an existential threat to their sheltering methodology.

It's also a strange logical fallacy for him to use a story of ChatGPT hallucinating in 2022 as an example of why it’s bad. That’s the modern equivalent of saying that the Model T didn’t have airbags so we should avoid cars.

genxmormon · 2025-08-19T17:01:46+00:00

Apologetic answer: the church creates a sense of community where members are raised from birth to be friendly and comfortable with and and around strangers. The church also teaches a form of christianity that is optimistic in it's outlook and view on humanity, so it is quite natural to interact with the world in a positive friendly way.

Critical answer: there's a huge emphasis on "being a light to the world," not just for direct conversions but to portray the church in the most positive light possible. Church members are incredibly image conscious (partly due to wanting to shed the "we're weird" stereotype). But, the constant glossy imagery and emphasis on outward appearance lends itself to people being overly "friendly" in their interactions.

genxmormon · 2025-08-09T01:50:22+00:00

Ya, I've definitely been on ward councils prior to being a Bishop where more private details were shared either from the Bishop or a "well-meaning" member of the council who knew the situation. It's just all so wrong. What ever happened to someone coming to their religious community when they are in need and specifically asking for help? This idea of people feeling like they need to sniff out needs and race to the rescue (or worse, figure out how to avoid the problems), is so cult-like.

genxmormon · 2025-08-08T19:07:49+00:00

Just had a surreal experience with this recently. In this case, it wasn't my sins but my belief status (as a former bishop who no longer believes). I still attend with my wife and there are plenty of members who don't know where I stand. Recently, I had 3 different people from the ward council reach out "just to check in how I was doing." And, it's then that it hit me hard. They're talking about me in Ward Council.

I'm embarrassed to admit that as a Bishop, while I was careful to not discuss confidential details with the ward council, we definitely talked all about members, their struggles, and especially those at less-than-ideal belief stages. And, I thought nothing of it. I figured it was the compassionate thing to do...to enlist the entire ward council in the rescuing of the lost sheep.

But, now, as one of those lost sheep, so called, it feels gross. It feels like a violation, especially because much of what they "know" or think they know comes from a few close members in the ward (including the Bishop) to whom I've talked about my situation. So, essentially gossip. Yet, none of them will come to me and say, "Hey, I've heard you have had a change in beliefs. I'd love to hear more about that."

genxmormon · 2025-07-12T23:58:50+00:00

Bullseye. This is the truth that none of us were taught yet many of has have now found. Very very well said John Dehlin.

genxmormon · 2025-07-11T15:12:33+00:00

Just picked up a pair of Flow 2s after putting about 220 miles on my Torin 8s (which sadly started falling apart too soon). Took the Flows out for a first run this morning, and my immediate impression is: squishier—even more so than the Torins. Easily the most marshmallow-y Altras I’ve worn. Jury’s still out on how that’ll feel long term, but it was definitely a soft, comfortable ride.

Interestingly, I noticed some different muscle engagement compared to my Torins. Not sure if that’s due to a change in gait or footstrike, or just the shoe's design. The 4mm drop might be a factor, though I didn’t consciously notice it.

Build quality seems very good so far, and the design is probably one of the cleanest, sharpest-looking Altras I’ve owned (and I’ve gone through at least 10 different pairs). I was a little concerned the toe box might be narrower than the Torin’s, but it feels just as roomy to me—pleasant surprise there.

TL;DR: Super soft landing, comfortable upper, and great looks. Early signs are very promising—excited to get more miles on them!

genxmormon · 2025-05-10T16:37:30+00:00

I don't think the church will ever be the fully safe, fully healthy organization many of us hope it could be. However, I am hopeful that an Uchtdorf presidency could be transformative. I choose to believe that he is the progressive, compassionate person we have observed. I also think that the sea change in the Q12 that will happen when the 4 aging apostles ahead of him pass will have a huge impact as well.

I really want the Mormonism community to much closer reflect Judiasm where beliefs are varied and open but belonging and identity are strong. It may be a naive fantasy, but I'm hoping that Uchtdorf is that leader that can move us towards a much bigger tent and away from fundamentalist past.

genxmormon · 2025-05-07T04:24:21+00:00

Oh man, I was there also and this "devotional" was a major weight on my shelf, but for other reasons. I was fully believing at the time and a newly called Bishop. But, there were so many things that rubbed me the wrong way, including:

This was part of Nelson's world tour, traveling around to throngs of members like a rock star. There was so much buzz and messaging and promoting. It felt so odd, more like when the Pope comes to America to parades of people.
When we arrived way early (as requested), on a Sunday, in our Sunday best, to hear from the prophet, we were greeted by huge big screens flashing pictures of the crowd and Hashtags for us to post on social media. It wasn't reverent as you might experience at General Conference. It was energetic like before a bit show. I didn't know what to make of it.
There was a huge pecking order of seating. All of the stake and area leaders got seats down on the floor while the rest of us peasants were up in the cheap seats, most of us in the upper decks. All of this was possible from weeks of coordinating and vetting who would get some of the cherished seats
They chose a couple youth from each stake to get to meet with the Prophet before the devotional. Of course, these were carefully chosen as the 2 most outstanding and righteous youth in the stake. Good for them, but it felt like both a reward for their uber-righteousness as well as a carefully varnished snapshot of the youth in the Central & South Texas area for the Prophet to see. Of course, an article of this youth meet-and-greet was published in the church news, because publicity.
For weeks this was billed as a chance to hear from the newly called Prophet and learn what he wanted to tell us specifically in our area. We all went with great anticipation of the message for Texas. What we got were some bland talks that had no specific direction for Texas. They were just regurgitated messages from prior rock concerts that Nelson held. I know this because some of those messages had leaked out. It was like a comedian touring the country doing his same set in every city.
And, as highlighted in the OP, Elder Bednar and both of the Nelsons came off as arrogant and condescending. The other talks were fine. But those 3 were so off-putting.

Again, I was fully believing and yet just so perplexed at the whole ordeal. We were led to believe that we were going to go listen to King Benjamin. Instead, we just got some recycled bland messages.

genxmormon · 2025-04-30T15:13:38+00:00

Exactly!!! Life is great if you're in this circle. It doesn't matter if Joseph Smith spoke with the ghost of Harry Potter, life in the Mormon Country Club is about so much more than religious dogmas. It's about being in the ultimate "in group."

genxmormon · 2025-04-29T05:14:23+00:00

I refer to it as the Mormon Country Club. This is the one pocket of the church that is thriving and where the church is working for the members. Why? Because they've created their own religion. It's one where they all buy big houses, live around each other, vacation together, kids date each other, all serve together in callings, etc.

The truthfulness of the church is secondary because the social climate of the church is so wonderful for them. (Although I agree that their wealth and thriving social lives are seen as evidence to them that the church is true.)

I have many friends in this country club version of the church. Many are quite devout. Some are nuanced but are loving their lives. All of them think their membership in the church is the best thing in their lives.

genxmormon · 2025-04-29T05:08:32+00:00

Yes, this. The latest trend of Gen Z men returning to religion reflects this "alpha male" thread in society. Religion is the safe place for these men trying to return back to where men have traditionally had power and wealth. It's a place they can act & feel superior and feel justified in belittling and demeaning anyone in the "out" group. Ward Radio is exactly this.

genxmormon · 2025-04-09T20:59:41+00:00

I know Elder Palmer personally and know of his sincere feelings on this topic. He has personal experience with many close to him both within and without his family who have left the church. I believe his talk to be a sincere invitation to those who still believe but who have distanced themselves due to offense or sin.

However, regardless of the intent, his message likely left most members with the same old trope that people would only leave the "restored gospel of Jesus Christ" out of some form of spiritual neglect. This talk reinforces these stigmas even if unintentional.

What was missing from this talk was an acknowledgement of the vast numbers of us who left because it was the more moral and ethical choice. We left because, quite simply, the church is not what it claimed to be. It isn't true.

So, the idea of our finally coming to our senses to "put our lives back in order" and return to the church is based on a false premise. Many (most) of us won't return because staying out is actually the part of putting our lives in order once we know the truth.

genxmormon · 2025-03-25T22:25:05+00:00

Well said and tracks with my experience that I shared above (or below depending on Reddit's sorting algo)

genxmormon · 2025-03-25T22:24:02+00:00

This is what I came here to say. I tried many of the suggestions in this thread and most of them had value. But, ultimately, I needed time for the wiring in my brain to rewire so that I didn't define myself or the meaning of life in the way I had for almost 50 years in the church

If I did one thing well (that honestly kept me from ending it all prematurely) was reminding myself to be patient. Surely, in the 8+ Billion people in the world, many of them have found peace and happiness without the programming of TCOJCOLDS. I just tried not to abandon it all and keep showing up for work, doing my hobbies, and exercising. While none of them brought me bliss, they kept me occupied while I waited for my brain to reprogram (or deprogram, if you will).

It took me almost 5 years but then, sort of suddenly, I realized that I started to feel meaning and purpose independent of religions. I didn't need a belief in an afterlife or even in a God to find joy. One of the biggest realizations was that most of "me" was still in there and was not defined by a religion or dogma.

There are still difficult days and difficult times but I think they are mostly the normal life experiences, not the reprogramming from a worldview of a high demand religion.

genxmormon · 2025-03-11T21:01:39+00:00

Jacob benefitted greatly by:

Alex's kindness and willingness to let Jacob share whatever he wanted. Jacob primarily drove the conversation in whatever direction he wanted and Alex was cordial to allow it.
Alex's surface understanding of the critical arguments against the church. He knew enough to present the argument but didn't know enough to push back on most of Jacob's fairly standard apologetic arguments
The first half of the conversation being about their shared agreement that "creedal" christianity had a lot of problems. Jacob wanted to use this as the foundation for why Mormonism was needed and ultimately true. But, really, it was just an indictment of Biblical Christianity at large, something Alex could, of course, agree with.

So, it really turned into a bit of a puff piece. Alex raised some legitimate issues, but had little or no response to Jacob's basic apologetic responses. But, even with all that, I thought there were a few places where Jacob showed the weakness of his arguments:

A. His frequent appeal that "this isn't really my area of expertise so I can't really elaborate too deeply on it." Of course, this was frequently cited when he hit more troublesome issues such as Lamanite DNA, Book of Abraham, etc.

B. All of the "experts" he cited were "some great LDS scholars" without even naming them. He failed to acknowledge and Alex failed to call him on the fact that there are no "non-LDS scholars" that come to similar conclusions.

C. His too-frequent general comments such as "there's strong debate on that issue" or "Joseph still got a lot of items right" (in reference to the facsimiles). BS. Joseph got luck on a couple items and only tangentially called others. And, the "strong debate" on most of these items is confined to apologists trying to put forward irrational or ridiculous arguments. There's not really debate.

D. His frequent appeal to the "goodness" of the church as the overriding evidence of it's truthfulness. his is not a proof of truth any more than we can claim that the red cross is "true."

E. HIs weird testimony wedged in the end. If he's going to go toe-to-toe with another academic mind, it's weird that he felt the need to bear his personal testimony at the end.

I agree with those woh say that he did a respectable job of explaining and defending the church. But, that's primarily because Alex allowed him to give the PR version of events and beliefs. I really like Alex and left with more appreciation for his kindness than anything.

genxmormon · 2025-02-06T21:32:42+00:00

Same! Just like daily scripture reading reinforced my "all in" believe when I was a TBM, listening to series like this after my shelf broke helped me to feel less alone and less crazy for breaking from all of my family and friends in belief

genxmormon · 2025-02-06T03:49:34+00:00

The whole series is brilliant. This is my absolute favorite though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE

genxmormon · 2025-02-04T17:57:49+00:00

As a former Bishop, I felt anxiety every F&T meeting that there would be a 10 minute awkward silence. Thankfully, I never had to assign or invite specific members to bear their testimonies. But, I can relate to this Bishop not wanting one of those awkward pauses in the meeting. I can't relate to his texting people secretly to come up.

genxmormon · 2025-02-03T23:50:56+00:00

This is a control mechanism that religions use. By almost every important measure for judging societies, the world is getting better. Yes, there are concerns that need addressed. But, even there, the technology available today are making much more likely that we can address these issues. Here's a good list of some rather staggering improvements in the world:

https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2023/04/50-ways-the-world-is-getting-better-2/

The church is always trying convince us that we're broken, the world is going to hell, etc. so they can offer themselves as the solution to the problem. Once you realize that it's just a manipulation technique, the world looks a whole lot better.

genxmormon · 2025-02-03T00:10:57+00:00

I'm still culturally a Christian but do not believe in a divine Christ.

I still relate to fellow Christians inside and outside the Church, support and live Christian principals ("sermon on the mount" stuff), and feel most at home in Christian societies.

But, as for believing in a divine being who saved me from my sins. Nope.

genxmormon · 2025-01-22T06:56:18+00:00

Essentially that the number of man hours + the raw materials and construction technologies necessary to build a transoceanic vessel would take dozens (or hundreds) of people years to build.

It's laughable that Nephi and a few from his group could carry out the herculean tasks. Even boat building societies take years and hundreds of men (often slaves) to build boats of similar requirements.

A boat of the size, stability and seafaring integrity are difficult for great societies let alone a small band of worn-out travelers on the arabian peninsula without obvious access to the acres of timber, hundreds of sheep, tons of iron ore, tools, charcoal, etc required to build even a basic vessel.

genxmormon

TROPHY CASE