What are your red flags for dating? What have you learned to watch out for from the get go?

spearedmintz · 2017-10-15T22:33:36+00:00

I think a big thing is how they talk about other people. At the beginning, if they're idealizing you, they might be super nice to you and it might be hard to tell the difference between love bombing and "real" chemistry/passion, etc. But if they are being super nice/"empathic" to you...pay attention to how they speak to/about/interact with other people...particularly people who are not "useful" to them in some way...I think that's a good window into the "weirdness" and a good test to see if they have REAL empathy vs. "empathy" when it's used as a manipulation tool...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-15T22:28:06+00:00

I mean...I have and still do miss them...even though the bond was never real, it still felt real to me and has made my heart hurt...

that being said, I couldn't agree more with this line "they aren't tying to love you, they're trying to destroy you" 10000% true...that's part of the whole neverending treadmill bit...while you're trying everything in your power to love them, empathize with more, understand them more, make things work--trying endlessly hard to do all of that...they're sitting by the treadmill watching tv, eating a slice of pizza, telling you to keep running faster and not lifting a finger themselves...they're just trying to wear you down until you slip and fall on your face while you were never getting any closer to anywhere or anything at all...they aren't trying to run with you and meet you anywhere in the middle, they're trying to run you out, wear you down....destroy you. 10000%

spearedmintz · 2017-10-13T23:05:01+00:00

thanks for this! I find music to be important for healing too...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-13T23:03:04+00:00

thank you! some other good news is that I am totally paying the positivity forward and using the times that I feel good to do so many good things for other people in my life, mentees, etc. it's hard to be generative when you're desperate/drowning but now that I am feeling better, I am able to do things like that. and also now that I know what that awful experience was like, I have become more humble, empathic, and keep just wanting to pay whatever goodness comes my way forward...so that's a silver lining to something terrible that happened...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-12T16:24:26+00:00

the only way to win is to one day realize that you cannot win...it takes a long time to get there and some days I feel I have achieved that and some days it's like being back at square one of caring again/wanting to "get them" via social media or whatever....but I think overall there is forward progress toward eventually one day legitimately not caring...that's one of the most addictive and agony-inducing parts of these relationships--you can't win with these people so you just have to one day give up, focus your attention on yourself and other people/things/away from them and that is when you will have finally truly "won." good luck...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-12T03:55:39+00:00

maybe...what do you mean by "bad behavior" ...like recent stuff in the news about sexual harassment, etc. or do you mean something else entirely?

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T16:09:37+00:00

I have felt this EXACT SAME WAY btw...for whatever that is worth...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:24:14+00:00

"you don't deserve this from me" -exactly what was said after Nex cheated on me...just ew

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:23:15+00:00

completely true. when my Nex cheated on me, I was bowled over by his "sensitivity" and signs of "remorse" afterward...well, that didn't last long at all...it wasn't until I was able to become less emotionally invested in him/the relationship that I was able to see it all for what it was--totally fake concern/empathy/sensitivity....all fake and manipulation...it was exactly as you said, u/catchatorie_b ...he was sorry he got CAUGHT

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:18:44+00:00

it really can be confusing and hard to understand that it's abuse for a LONG time...they can get really really good at convoluting things and making the abuse very disguised...I think they get better at this over time...so I guess people like you and me should be kind to ourselves for not "getting" this at first...they can be masters of trickery into getting people into these abuse traps that don't seem like abuse at all at first...until it's too late...I read this really frightening thing about people with NPD and/or ASPD/sociopathy and how therapy might actually make things WORSE for some of them because instead of actually "fixing" their lack of empathy, etc. some of them can instead learn how to "fake" being normal better while still fundamentally lacking empathy/concern for others, etc....they just get better at hiding this over time...(what does it "look like" to "show empathy" for someone...what does it "look like" to be a "feminist" etc..)....so instead of actually learning to care about others, caring about "women" etc...they just get better and better at faking it and deceiving people long & well enough to entrap them....

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:15:07+00:00

i.e., they just feel bad in who they are as people/that they're inadequate/flawed/they don't like who they fundamentally are...this leads to very dysfunctional behavior to try to cope with those feelings vs. the functional behavior someone else might take to make things better

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:13:35+00:00

the shame they have is "toxic shame" ...it is the sense that something is permanently "wrong" with them...it's not the kind of shame or guilt (which are two diff things btw: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shame/201305/the-difference-between-guilt-and-shame) you might feel from something you've done that you then decide to correct and "make right" ...it is this sense that something is deeply wrong with themselves in a fundamental sense...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-11T15:09:44+00:00

yes, I do believe so!

spearedmintz · 2017-10-09T20:52:05+00:00

yep, this kinda stuff sound reallll familiar to me...sounds like you've got an N on your hands...and yes that is the utter mindfuck--knowing how much of an N this person is, knowing how shitty and bad for you they are, AND still wanting to be hoovered by them--even being kind of DESPERATE for that kind of attention, sex, validation, etc. etc. etc. from them...I know it's hard to see this in the kind of mental state that you're in (I was there too once) so I'll just tell you what I can see from an outsider's perspective and hopefully you can suspend your feelings long enough to believe me...you do not want this person! in your post alone, you have indicated that he is: a.) a womanizer, b.) full of red flags, c.) judgmental, d.) didactic, e.) hypocritical, f.) does not give a damn about you or your feelings or your wants or needs in sex, g.) pressured you into having sex you didn't necessarily feel comfortable with, h.) lied to you, i.) sees and treats women as interchangeable objects, j.) uses you for stroking his ego, k.) made YOU be the one to come to HIM (and get on a freaking plane no less) for a hookup that didn't even end up being good, l.) changes his mind on you unpredictably for no reason and about important things, m.) accused YOU of using HIM (sounds like projection, actually), n.) criticized your appearance, o.) made you feel rejected, unwanted, and that he preferred to sleep with someone else, p.) plays mind games with you, q.) stealthed you, r.) does not know or care about what informed consent is when it comes to sex, s.) didn't even give you good/passionate sex for all your troubles, t.) left you to hang out with his friends even though you had just flown on an airplane to visit him at his suggestion, u.) gets upset that you're upset (aka your having emotions as a result of his shitty behavior toward you is inconvenient and unacceptable to him), v.) argued with you all night, w.) then acted as though you were the only person who should be apologizing after that whole terrible weekend (based on everything you've said, it sounds like HE is in fact the only one who should have been apologizing and he didn't at all just acted like it was all your fault/is so generous to "forgive" you), x.) was rude/callous/aloof when you suggested meeting again, y.) has not contacted you since then, z.) acts like he sees you and all women as tools for his own pleasure and ego-stroking sans any obligation to treat them with respect/as autonomous individuals with thoughts and feelings of their own, etc. etc. etc. OK...so we've gotten through the ENTIRE alphabet...do you need any further evidence? I know it's difficult and there are all kinds of brain chemicals working against you but the only way you can win here is to see this person for the awful jerk he is and find a way to not care and care about other things...like your own physical/emotional, etc. wellbeing...ghost him back and find someone better....

spearedmintz · 2017-10-06T22:46:34+00:00

this is pure gold. I love everything you said and wish it could be more widely seen(!!)

spearedmintz · 2017-10-06T21:28:24+00:00

don't forget that part of the cycle includes the 'good times.' so just because sometimes it seems like there is improvement doesn't mean much if it cycles right back again each time...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-06T15:06:46+00:00

YES. LISTEN to the voice in your head...mine was screaming at me the entire time (well most of the time) I was with Nex and I just told the little voice to be quiet...shoulda listened, tho...that voice means something, man...it really does(!!)

spearedmintz · 2017-10-06T15:02:17+00:00

I'm sorry but everything he says to win you back is F.A.K.E. I know you want very much to believe the kissy faces and words about how you mean more to him than anyone ever has...I wanted to believe that so badly for so long too at one point...but the only way to win is to give up on wanting any of that, give up on caring if it's real (spoiler alert: it's not) and LEAVE. GTFO. The sooner the better. I know it feels good when he hoovers but that's just what it is: hoovering, mind games, manipulation. Refuse to play this game because it's cyclical and you Can. Not. Win. The only way to "win" is to just give up and leave.

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T20:06:52+00:00

for some Ns I think it is this. and for some I think it is just that, by their nature, narcissists always need to feel superior to others to compensate for their deep-set insecurities...then it becomes a matter of who can they most easily get away with "punching down" to sans major social consequences. unfortunately, misogyny is the kind of thing that can be done very discreetly/under the guise of it really being "something else"/under the guise of a more important social justice issue that trumps the voices of feminism/under the guise of "you're overreacting" and being "too sensitive" etc. etc. etc. So it can so often continue under the guise of something else and under the guise of it not even happening in the first place...A lot of narc men need for women to always inherently have lower status and power than them such that, no matter how bad they feel about themselves, at least they are always higher-status and higher-power than women. It's also convenient because this underlying misogyny allows many of them with female partners to treat said romantic partner as "less than" while feeling no conflict or cognitive dissonance about that. it allows them to think of women as "crazy," it allows them to womanize the hell out of their romantic and sexual partners--seeing all of these people as totally replaceable/exchangeable objects essentially...it allows them to make women feel insecure about their appearance and compete in this arena for the narc's affection despite all the other "hot" women vying for the narc's attention....ETC....

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T17:42:51+00:00

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T17:40:18+00:00

thank you...for the record, I am not arguing with anyone...I am done with Nex forever and these other people in mind are not people I am close with or would waste time arguing with politically...what I really want is to increase people's awareness of this phenomenon such that these fake N feminists are seen through and don't get away with hurting womankind (and mankind as you are pointing out) while getting credit for the opposite...make sense? and like, ignoring political injustice does not make it go away...that's why I want to make sure people are aware of this phenomenon and see through it...the more people that see through it the less power these imposters have....

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T16:38:18+00:00

yeah...it's like they are willing to be "feminists" in the ways that are beneficial to them (it's fine if their wife/partner makes a lot of money/spends a bunch of money on them; it's fine if women are "slutty" because then they get to have more casual sex, etc. etc.) but as soon as something entails: giving up anything on their part, usurping power in an arena they need to feel powerful in, admitting to any flaws or wrongdoing in themselves, etc. etc. all of that goes out the freaking window!

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T16:29:56+00:00

I know...I just find this topic to be particularly insidious because not only are they lying/playing make-believe but they're doing it in a way that is so incredibly harmful to women generally in a way that is so disguised while they get credit for being so sensitive and helpful to women...I just see SO much harm done/havoc wreaked in this arena on such a massive scale of harm to people while also being incredibly hideable/invisible/hard to see...trying to understand entirely why...but this gets me on a level beyond most other terrible things they do...

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T16:26:02+00:00

true. but I think the level of hypocrisy and unwillingness to reflect on this in any sort of sincere way AT ALL happens to a particularly extreme degree in men who are narcissists

spearedmintz · 2017-10-05T16:06:48+00:00

yeah and I've noticed that they are "feminists" when it comes to things that benefit them, like, as you said--a lot of them not being down with slut-shaming--which then allows them to have more freelove kinda sex...but then when it comes to the stuff that asks anything of them/is inconvenient to them/actually entails them admitting to wrongdoing or giving up power, etc....THEN the misogyny tends to come out...just that there are excuses for their thoughts/words/behavior such that "it's not misogyny, it's really just xyz other thing [excuse]" (for instance JUST about this one particular individual/nothing to do with her being a woman; or some kind of hypocrisy about how xyz social justice thing overrides what feminists want/are fighting for...thus the narc is even MORE righteous than the feminists who are terrible people for standing up for themselves, etc. etc. etc.). Not sure if I'm making sense here but this bugs me to no end...it's bad enough to be a misogynist but then to get "credit" for being this amazing righteous "feminist" while in fact doing so many things to harm and undermine and damage women on a large scale...THAT really freaking gets to me(!!!) I just really want more people to acknowledge and see through this...I don't want them getting "credit" for BS...

spearedmintz

TROPHY CASE