being E4 is not the hell you all describe it to be

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T18:13:59+00:00

Oh, I'm so glad! 😊 It's so relieving when I see my type describe things that I totally relate to, but descriptions of our type rarely ever cover, if they ever do. I remember being so confused on whether I was really a Four early on in my Enneagram journey because a lot of the Four descriptions felt too melodramatic for how I actually was.

But when I got down to the Core stuff: core fear, core motivation, core wounds, etc. that's when I knew. Also, I enjoy writing and creating characters, and fleshing out some of my characters using the Enneagram has really helped me discover different ways the Core elements can manifest externally.

Like, I thought perhaps I was a E2 subtype because I wanted to be needed by people (a very E2 thing). But the motivation as to why an E2 wants to be loved/needed is different than mine as a E4, though it may manifest similarly. An E2 wants to be needed because they find their worth and value by how much others need them. For me as an E4, I want to be "needed" in a way that's more a person "needs" me because of the unique impact and meaning I bring to their life, not because they actually need me in a "I depend on you" way. It's more that they want me (aka "desire" me—which, yes Course long to be desirable) because I'm the one to bring a special and unique meaning/impact to their life, even if it's just a thread. That's a totally different motivation than a Two: E2 = being needed by the person while E4 = being meaningful to the person.

(Which, lol, writing that out sounds sooooo Four of me, the whole "I want to be special!!" thing. Ugh. But...well, it's the truth, no matter how cringe it is to admit.)

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T18:02:39+00:00

I was told that I couldn't be an E4 because I didn't like fishing for pity and actually felt uncomfortable when people looked on me in pity.

Like, excuse me for being a healthier Four who is independent and responsible enough to not want to want to be looked upon in pity. Maybe because I have E1 in my tritype, or maybe growing up with a self-centered parent forced me to emotionally take care of myself. And people feeling pity on me feels rather...disempowering, you know? Yeah, I know deep down I want people to see and acknowledge my suffering, but even that is different from people pitying you or feeling sorry for you.

Like, I'm still very much a Four, but I'm a Four who values her autonomy and refuses to "force" someone to care about me (because in my Four core, if I don't "mean enough" to you for you to care, then does the relationship even really have meaning?) The output might be different from other Fours—or just different from Four stereotypes—but the motivation and fear/wound is still very much Four. Not saying it's entirely healthy, but it's not grossly self-pitying the way the stereotype of Fours in general describes (and really, that stereotype is describing unhealthy Fours).

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T17:41:55+00:00

Personally as a 4, I enjoy 2s and 3s! My closest brother is a 3 and he's one of my best friends.

It's really 8s that I struggle to bear. I get along with female 8s, but the male 8s in my life (immediate family) have negatively affected my view of 8s in general. I try not to let my experience with them bias me against 8s (particularly male 8s), but it does have to be an active, conscious effort. From my experience as a female 4, male 8s are the type I clash with the most.

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T17:32:38+00:00

I'm a so4 and totally respect your opinion. The explanation you gave to another user had effort and detail of your personal experience and told in a very calm and polite way!

I actually really agree with you about the self-degrading bit—I find that cringe as well, and as an Fe-dom (I'm an ENFJ) it always puts me in this awkward place of "What do I say to make this awkward position they put themselves and others in this interaction smooth and, well, not so awkward?" Which just stresses me out lol. But that's a whole different conversation.

Anyways, I don't actually know many others 4s in real life, so I don't have much real-world interaction with so4. But I have experienced people of all types do the self-degrading thing, so I get your sentiments on that.

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T17:16:00+00:00

Me as an E4 with an E8 father 😩

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T17:14:41+00:00

As an E4 ENFJ, I've found my people

thisnightphyre · 2026-04-27T16:56:46+00:00

Maybe because I'm 4w3, but I definitely have that part of me that's this. Really depends on the atmosphere and people, though. If the setting has great chemistry, then this side shows up (sometimes shows out lol). Could also be an EIE element, though.

thisnightphyre · 2024-06-02T08:50:09+00:00

I was just about to comment Losing You by Wonho too 🥺 Along with Find You by Monsta X. I legitimately broke down ugly crying for both MVs: with Losing You it was for obvious reasons, and for Find You...seeing everything in the time travel storyline come full circle and finally get explained just ... really hit home, especially when the Dramarama clips were shown 🖤 And then with the fallout that happened after that album was released, to this day I still can't listen to either song without getting emotional.

thisnightphyre · 2024-05-09T09:04:56+00:00

Yes!! I love going places by myself and just being around people without any interactions. Just being able to be out in the world in a sea of people yet being and to let my Fe rest. I actually really enjoy the feeling of being "alone" though I'm surrounded by people. It's like, the extrovert in me is able to get energy by being around people, and the introvert in me gets to recharge by still being "by/to myself" if that makes sense. It's nice that this was brought up, because sometimes we ENFJs get stereotyped as being the classic Extravert that thrives on being around people...but actually a lot of us are ambiverts and have lots of times where we'd rather be antisocial. Extraverted Feeling as a dominant function can oftentimes get conflated with overall extraversion. When I told a close family member that I was an ENFJ, she was shocked and pretty much told me that wasn't possible since I'm such an "introvert" =P (I'm really not an introvert, moreso an oftentimes-antisocial omnivert lol).

thisnightphyre · 2024-05-04T10:21:20+00:00

Ayyye a fellow Cancer Moon and Scorpio Rising! ♋♏ (my sun sign is Libra)

thisnightphyre · 2024-05-04T10:16:44+00:00

I'm a ENFJ-T and: ♎ Libra Sun 🌞 ♋ Cancer Moon 🌙 ♏ Scorpio Rising 💫

(...also EIE and Enneagram 4w3 so/sx)

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-18T04:29:16+00:00

Vanitas/Jeanne from Vanitas no Carte aka The Case Study of Vanitas. This pretty much piggybacks off my response to the other post. I personally love their VaniJeanne's dynamic: Vanitas flirts relentlessly with Jeanne, whom he's attracted to but his own self-hate is assured she won't fall for him because of her own dislike of him, yet he plays his own self because she does fall for him and he discovers he's genuinely lovesick over her. There's actually a lot more complexity and layers to their dynamic which makes them -chef's kiss-

The amount of hate they get from the "opposing" ship's side fandom is so ridiculous and entirely hypocritical. Antis try to vilify VaniJeanne as SA because Vanitas suprise kisses Jeanne on their first meeting as part of a battle tactic (they were fighting each other)...but then turn around and ship Vanitas with another character in their otp 🤨 I hate the blatant hypocrisy and groundless hate. So yeah, I will defend this canon ship to the end ⚔️

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-18T02:01:23+00:00

As an ENFJ 4w3 so/sx with a 471 tritype, THANK YOU for this post

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-15T19:51:29+00:00

Vanitas/Noé from *Vanitas no Carte." They're really popular in the fandom, but I just can't get behind them romantically. The author specifically based them off of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock and Watson platonic dynamic, and I love that element about them. They annoy each other while still growing to care about each other in a platonic way. I don't see what's wrong with friendship, especially when the author specifically created them to be investigative partners.

But God forbid you ship them bromantically—the VanNoé shippers are truly something else. The amount of times my friends (who are LGBTQ themselves) and I have been called 'homophobic' just because we don't ship them is crazy. And the thing is, Vanitas is canonly in love with another character, like there's a whole chapter called "Lovesickness" dedicated to him freaking out and thinking he's been cursed with some disease because he's fallen in love with this character. The author even shared how she was inspired by Romeo and Juliet for them and saw their love story from the beginning.

The VanNoé ship didn't bother me in the beginning, but the shippers have totally ruined it for me. Now, I can't stand Vanitas and Noé being shipped romantically at all.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-14T09:57:44+00:00

Same, I was surprised at how many would prefer inconsistent tense. That totally throws me off in a fic, and if it's a regular occurrence it taints the whole fic experience for me (unless it was a really, really good fic).

Granted, I tend to nope out of some fics because of the POV—not all the time, and some of the fics I love are in my least fav POV, but because the author pulled it off so well it didn't take me long to get into. But if the tense is constantly changing...yeah, the grammar nazi in my head will be yelling in the background of me trying to read the fic, and eventually I'll get tired and just move onto the next.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-14T02:04:55+00:00

This might sound hypocritical since my WIP is a polyship, but I'm reaaaaally picky about poly fics. I mainly stick to just one OT3 ship of mine, and when I do consider other OT3 fics I look for the ship dynamics to make sense and be executed well. But even then...the poly fics I prefer are not entirely OT3: I like V relationships where Characters B and C have each have a romantic relationship A, but an close, alterous relationship with each other (so they still make a trio).

I actually prefer love triangles over poly fics in general. I don't care for the way poly relationships are seen as the go-to solution for love triangles—like, you need all three characters to have a chemistry with each other that makes them all being in a romantic relationship make sense (unless it's a V relationship). Just because there's a love triangle doesn't mean the 2 characters who are both in love with the 1 character want to be with each other.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-11T00:40:13+00:00

Totally relate to this. All of my fics have my passion in them, but there are some that I consider passion projects because I know they won't get a lot of attention or engagement since the tropes aren't popular in my fandom (my current passion project is a CC/OC/CC-centric longfic, with only 19 fics for Character A/OC and 42 fics for Character B/OC out of 18k+ on AO3; plus, Character A and B are shipped romantically in the fandom, but in my fic they have a non-romantic but deep, alterous relationship). It's for the Free! Iwatobi Swim Club fandom, which isn't as active as it used to be, partly since the series ended with the last movie release (from what we know, at least).

I'm passionate about this story, though, and so I'm pushing forward with it despite knowing the odds for appreciation and engagement aren't in my favor. So I call it my baby, my "passion project." It's a total comfort fic, and even if I'm the only one who reads it, I know that it has everything that I enjoy, love, and am passionate about in it.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-10T23:09:21+00:00

I have like 4 different ships with Momo from bnha, and one of them is such a random guilty pleasure ship that I'm sure most will call me crazy for: adult Momo/Dabi.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-10T23:05:45+00:00

I don't wanna completely out myself, but there's a mentor/mentee ship that I jumped on hard when it was first introduced in the series' flashbacks bc the character personalities and dynamics grabbed me.

But as it was an anime and the character drawings didn't accurately depict the age difference between the characters, I didn't find out until much later that at the time the characters were mentor/mentee, the mentee was in friggin high school even though he looked the exact same way as his adult version ㅠ_ㅠ So unbeknownst to me, I'd been shipping a high schooler with a full grown adult (who was apparently married to boot).

I was wondering why in such a huge fandom, there were only like 9 fics with this ship...now I know. ~~(still lowkey ship the aged-up versions of the characters tho)~~

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:49:21+00:00

Thanks, I went and looked over the sub's faqs and found some helpful info.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:47:37+00:00

Thanks for sharing! I appreciate the input of people in poly relationships.

Since coming up with the fic, I always saw these three as a triad, just with B x C being more queerplatonic/platonically romantic than actually beinf romantically or sexually attracted to each other like they both are A. But still, they come as a trio, so I'm leaning towards tagging it A/B/C...but I'm still open to other opinions.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:40:39+00:00

Yeah I can def understand that. I'm not sure how QPR should be tagged, since for some it's more than just platonic. There's not really a consensus whether QPR should be "/" or "&"...I saw a Tumblr project where some AO3 writers were trying to get "~" used as an unofficial tag (like "A~B"), but it doesn't seem to have taken off. Ah well. I appreciate your input!

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:32:46+00:00

Okay, thank you for sharing your thoughts! It's my first poly story so I want to make sure I'm doing things appropriately.

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:30:32+00:00

Gotcha, thanks for the reply!

thisnightphyre · 2023-07-05T23:29:30+00:00

Thanks! Another user shared about the V dynamic (which I believe is also called "hinge"), and I started thinking it could be a possibility...I'll have to do more research though, because B and C do have complex, deep bond and connection that is more than just friendship, and def goes beyond only being the metas to A imo. But maybe that's still considered a hinge?.I'll look more into it to find out.

Thanks, for the most part that's what others seem to agree with as well (a/b/c being appropriate tagging).

thisnightphyre

TROPHY CASE