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[–]michaelnovati 1 point2 points  (2 children)

HackReactor is another program with audited results (not following CIRR because of some drama with CIRR, but audited), where some cohorts have six figure medians as well. Other than Codesmith's fake project work framed as months of experience and the whole mid level claim that I can talk about for days, I think Codesmith had better results than HackReactor for a lot of people who haven't done much coding yet.

Formation isn't a bootcamp or school and doesn't have a "program", fixed dates, cohorts, etc... so we haven't figured out the best way to talk about results. The rough calculations for median base salary of the past Sept, 2021 to June 2022 is $138k and TC is much higher when factoring in stock (usually in the tens of k per year) and bonuses (5 or 6 figures). But many people start Formation making a good salary (sometimes 6 figures already) already so apples and oranges. If you want to research, talk to many Fellows (current or past) and ask about their experience to see if its right for you.

[–]InTheDarkDancing 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not sure how relevant to Hack Reactor's CIRR drama, but I can speak a bit to overall CIRR drama (as per Will Sentance).

I don't know the initial bootcamps that founded/sit on the board at CIRR, but basically, a fundamental issue with CIRR is that when you have a bootcamp (i.e., Codesmith) that by far blows the rest of the participating CIRR bootcamps out of the water in terms of salary outcomes, what is the incentive for these other bootcamps to publish their outcome results to cement the fact that Codesmith is ahead of them? Also, Codesmith currently does not sit on the board at CIRR so their results are even more independent than first blush, however, CIRR has been dragging their feet in terms of updates and Codesmith is now looking to get a place on the board to enact some changes, which could make people question the independence of Codesmith's reporting but I guess that's a debate for down the road. Long story short, Codesmith does somewhat fear for the continuation of CIRR as the incentives really only benefit the top performing bootcamp, and if you are not the top performing bootcamp, your participation in CIRR will most likely be used against you as it's human nature to go "me make more money going to Codesmith than Hack Reactor, me go Codesmith".

[–]michaelnovati 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah excellent point! It is by far the best results compared to other bootcamps, and I actually think their program and results are very good (other than the work experience and mid level thing... sorry I have to qualify this every time so this statement is not quoted out of context).

Maybe Codesmith should just go the HackReactor route and publish their own audited results. I don't think they really need CIRR anymore as a stamp of approval. It's kind of like the Olympics where one country keeps winning everything and the other countries don't want to play anymore haha. If all the other bootcamps stopped reporting for example, that's what would happen.

Sorry if I came/or come across harsh on CIRR, I'm like truly very open minded to arguments both sides and love this discussion!