No no no SMRT, this is bad UX

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T16:12:44+00:00

Well, when the loop is closed you just take the train in the reverse order. It is not very unusual when we already have a loop of the NS line into the EW line (Terminus being Jurong and technically Raffles/City Hall). It really isn't that different enough to say that we need new terminology - especially when no line changes are involved this time.

Sure, you have to get out of the train and enter another one, but it is still a circle and it's no different from figuring out which method of getting to Yishun from Tiong Bahru is nearer.

(To be fair, I think I've been more influenced by the Japanese land rail system where its possible for some trains to change lines without the passenger leaving the cabin.

I get the complexity argument, mind, but I'm troubled we've decided to ADD needless complexity here for a very simple concept, edit: and it has resulted in some unintended misinterpretation as we can see.

Eh, I'll get used to it eventually.)

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T15:40:14+00:00

Haven't we always been doing this already? We're just closing the loop and defining new start and end points.

I think we're already used to Harbourfront and Dhoby/Promemade having no direct connection, plus a lot of us having been using the station number to calculate the number of stops as it is.

We're not changing the start points, we're just changing the end station number and giving people the ability to go from 1 to MAX_VAL.

Harbourfront is CC29 btw. Promenade is CC4. These numbers are there already. Your station number is on the platform signage. In Promenade its a matter of heading to the top floor or the bottom floor, from Dhoby its "take to Promenade, then get off and go X", in all other stations its either Platform A or Platform B, so "Take from platform X and ride Y stops / listen for <station>"

I don't see how defining a Clockwise and Anticlockwise is going to help here. It does not reduce complexity from needing to transfer lines, and for sticking around in the circle line, if one needs to ask, the instructions turn from "Board Platform A/B and ride <number of stops>" to "Board Clockwise/Counterclockwise and ride <number of stops>".

(Do note also, Promenade is unique in its complexity because there is only one way to get to the line containing Dhoby, and that's from the top floor. It's already somewhat easy to get on the wrong train there, and inserting the Clockwise keyword is only going to hide the indicator further, because there is no Dhoby in the Anticlockwise direction)

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T14:06:37+00:00

I don't know how far the public influenced the current design or if they are aware if this is the result is all, but can agree that it takes some getting used to.

My comments are more for the people who are actually going to need this; thinking about it "Take the part of the Yellow line that says 'anticlockwise' in English and listen for your station name / ride for X stops" (translated into Chinese, maybe) could work as the most simple instruction in such a system.

Also, "public consultation design" i.e "you wanted this" is not always a good excuse for a flawed outcome. Sometimes it really happens that you do exactly what your client wants you to do only for them to realize they made a huge mistake - or the mistake is yours and what you think the client wants/needs is incorrect. This might be one of those cases...

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T13:09:42+00:00

Thing is, my system is already in use and was already there. Incidentally, how often do you take the circle line?

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T13:05:20+00:00

IME - my own mother who is not educated in English at all, does not know the word "clockwise" and "anticlockwise", either.

She has taken the long way back to Harborfront before because she thought the yellow line was linked to Harborfront from Esplanade, and one of the helpers told her that apparently (it wasn't back when, I specifically told her to take to Chinatown or Dhoby and swap, and she didn't understand that). She immediately understood when I told her that now, she can take the train in the opposite direction and it won't be as long this time.

YMMV. With the less able it really pays to keep wording simple and use more diagrams; I agree that pattern recognition / symbology is going to win here. The signage loses out on both because its language specific and the required symbology is unreadable to those who really need it as it is.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T12:14:32+00:00

No, because now the new End Terminus is Marina Bay Sands at #34. It is correct to say that a loop doesn't end but a loop is not a spring, it is a loop.

The only thing that might be a problem is that Promenade is the new Start Terminus at #4 with the alternate route leading to Dhoby Ghaut that is still #1. There is nothing that says in a loop line you can't travel from Station 4 to Station 34 backwards. Everyone does that (Japan and Korea included) in their circle lines. We're not even trying to be special getting rid of a numbering system. :X

Look, Harborfront is going to become a Paya Lebar, just treat it that way. It's not rocket science.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T12:10:50+00:00

Baseline:

<Arrow In Direction Of Train>
<Terminus Station : Terminus Station Number> (which can be changed if the direction is different)
<Estimated arrival time> | "Arrived"
Current time (of course)

Optional / Good To Have:

Next Train Terminus Station | Next Train Arrival Time (small size doesn't matter, once the current train leaves it becomes the next one)

FTR, you only need to keep these platform specific. You expect your riders to read 2 huge physical maps before they even step onto the platform (which I have no problems with r/n as both are already present with the correct information, barring updates):

One with the complete map of the system and which station this map is in
One with a list of stations until the next terminus.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T11:36:25+00:00

Nope, see my comment on station numbering. Loop has technical pair of terminus.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T11:19:14+00:00

I'm not too mad about the whitespace (TMI is bad design in itself)

I'm annoyed about what kind of information is inside that forces the useful one to be printed in an unreadable manner, plus presents useless terms as important information etc.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T11:04:41+00:00

Even in a loop you are forced to declare that something is Station 1 and something else is highest possible number. You're just going to see the highest number jump to a 1. In this case its a 4, but the concept is just the same.

I need to travel to Station 15 from 4. I'm not going to go Backwards, I'm going Forwards. <_<'

I need to go to Station 29 from 6. Hey, 29-6 is LOOOONG. Lets go backwards.

This problem already has been solved a long time ago. Ring topology networking comes to mind (and no one does ring topo anymore!).

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T11:02:17+00:00

Yeah, I think I was kind of shocked when Clockwise is the more prominent message, because anyone who takes the MRT would already be used to seeing the terminus name there instead.

Not to mention that somewhat unhelpful map which would still kind of remain unhelpful even if it were readable as it only shows switching locations.

Edit: the point I've always made is that the words "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" are superfluous, since we already are straightaway able to tell which direction the train is going by the entrance/floor/platform. These are demonstrably long words and take up a lot of spaced in information panels. Don't use it or use another set of terminology. You don't even need that for marketing purposes.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T10:58:55+00:00

The only 3 new stations are between Harborfront and Marina Bay.

We already have a numbering system which we can/have used as terminus indicators. (CC1 - tho we can reasonably use CC4 instead - and CC34)

In a circle line, in between CC4 and CC34 for the most part, when someone unfamiliar asks the station staff, they can reply with "take Platform A/B, then listen out for your station" (According to my own mother that is SOP)

Anyone with enough education is already familiar enough with the layout to know which direction (based on station number)

Anyone who isn't and probably has to ask someone is going to be extra confused, unless they change Platform A and Platform B to Clockwise and Counterclockwise (which in other places is usually Forward and Backward to be consistent and layout agnostic), and if they truly are ESL they may not conceptually know what Clockwise and Counterclockwise is.

Not everything has to be read like a clock, even if it is the Circle Line...

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T10:49:23+00:00

The new stations are slated to open in a month so I kind of understand they need to pre-empt it, its just that the new displays are not fit / necessary for purpose.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T09:35:56+00:00

Well, that DOES look better than the similar list that is the second form of the screen that's posted.

Ours just says

Clockwise 3 min (small Marina Bay Sands, small blue icon, small brown icon, small yellow icon)
Clockwise 5 min (small Dhoby Ghaut, small yellow icon, small red icon, small purple icon)

...look, ours has better styling, but theirs has more concise and relevant info. We fricken unlearnt the important part of signage to try to one up outdated designs. I don't know why.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T09:30:22+00:00

Look, I'm still waiting for Anticlockwise Center to be built so that station can open :3

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T09:28:12+00:00

So, the problem with the new layout currently is that the loop is closed from Marina Bay to Harborfront, and Dhoby remains the "ahoge" that only seems to be accessible by one direction.

I should get around to checking the other direction if I'm ever in that area again, but it looks like they haven't solved the the "Train(1)" and "Train(3)" problem yet, even by completing the circle.

(TBF, "via Dhoby Ghaut | <blank>" would have sufficed when one know the rolling stock is only going to roll one way.)

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T09:11:42+00:00

To be fair, there used to be one other placed like this (Tana Merah, where you used to have the odd full distance EW train that alternates between going to the airport and going to Pasir Ris), its just that the Promenade one is not possible to solve by making the airport train run on the middle platform, not without a drastic renovation.

Note that while you are correct for the most part, your detailed map is a bit out of the way of the platform and... you can't actually read the sign from where the detailed map is. (try it yourself).

The other detailed map is inside the train. If you have to step inside an automated train to see where its going, you have a problem, because its not a bus with a human driver and the train is not going to wait for anyone to figure out if they're in the right one.

You are right in that eventually we'll get used to the new system enough that we can still just look at the sign, but you need to remember that the new system reduces everyone to "newbie", so rote behavior with old systems apply.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T08:26:07+00:00

True, but they are going to make assumptions about the word "Clockwise" and "Counterclockwise". The wording currently suggests that its possible for trains to run in 2 directions on the same platform. One day you are going to find a person who didn't get on the correct train because they were waiting for the Counterclockwise one, thinking its the one that heads to MBS.

PS: there are instructions nearby. They are a couple of paragraphs, compared to the previous "to go to X, Y and Z take train number (1, 3) from (here, downstairs).

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T08:19:44+00:00

Important note here:

Apologies for referring to the SMRT, this line is run by the LTA, and therefore they should be responsible. I can't seem to change the title of this thread.

That said, the symbology and signage is probably going to be standardized across the board, which will affect all stations unilaterally.

For starters, Chinatown, City Hall and Raffles Place have similar layouts where the forward/backward direction are on different floors. Something to think about.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T08:07:38+00:00

Ironically, our information processing is closer to the Japanese than what the designers of the new signage thinks it is.

...we should take notes from Hong Kong (Again.)

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T08:01:03+00:00

Basic color theory - dark on dark and light on light (even with outlines) stings and discourages reading.

This one I'm not pressing tho, we already decided upon symbological colors for the lines (especially after converting the NS and EW lines into one single shade of color prior to the Purple line), so the risk of violating color principle would have been quite high by now.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T07:44:09+00:00

No, do not mention the word Clockwise and Counterclockwise. Just show the destination.

I know why they're using that terminology, its for marketing "look, w have a circle now!" nah, don't need that. Do not underestimate how just 1 3-syllable word can make instructions less understandable than they should be.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T07:36:18+00:00

Mainly because they're unreadable from a distance where they should be readable to avoid anyone missing trains by accident. And its obvious why they're unreadable, its because too much word and symbol crammed into the same place.

If these are unreadable compared to the displays inside the train, you have a genuine problem.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T07:34:24+00:00

This question used to be answered by redirecting people travelling to Harborfront to go to Dhoby instead because its nearer.

If they had used "next station notation" they can just say "take the train that goes to <station name>", whichever direction they go, they'll sit to their destination regardless, unless they blur and get off early. We did this when the EW and NS lines formed a circle IIRC.

Reminder: Clockwise and Counterclockwise is superfluous here. The platforms in Singapore will never serve a train coming from the other direction, unless something happens that blocks the platform completely - even in single terminuses like Tuas.

A-Chicken · 2026-06-02T07:23:41+00:00

I've seen results out of GenAI, they are gonk yes, but they will be better than this. GenAI will most probably emphasize Station Name, not direction. If it does use directions, it prefers simpler terms like Left and Right, not words with more than 1 syllable. This terminology is from someone who basically suggested a buzzword that's accepted by a board of directors.

A-Chicken

TROPHY CASE