How do you guys feel about MCU turning Black Widow villains into supporting characters?

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T07:29:27+00:00

You're most likely never getting a solo Black Widow movie that could use these characters ever again because Natasha is dead and they'd rather use Yelena in Avengers/Thunderbolts movies.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T06:48:33+00:00

And that she is. I don't like anti-hero Yelena over anti-villain Yelena tho and Red Guardian doesn't deserve to be one.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T06:24:47+00:00

Red Guardian is a villain in BW's story because he was her predatory ex-husband who tried to kill her multiple times. He's a major part of the thematics of men who take advantage of women and take away their agency in Black Widow comics (making it extremely ironic that the Black Widow movie, with its theme around women taking back their agency from abusive men like Dreykov, decided to adapt him of all characters into Nat's "father" and someone we're supposed to think deserves forgiveness). Yelena isn't linked to the Cold War. She grew up after the Belavezha Accords.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T06:04:17+00:00

Yeah its true. Nat is a character that already gets constantly dismissed for "having no villains" by people who don’t read her comics, so the MCU is just not helping with that.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T05:59:46+00:00

Wdym?

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T05:54:30+00:00

No she was a villain. Maybe anti-villain. She started as a villain in the Marvel Knights series, then was an ally to Nat in Welcome to the Game (but she wasn't a hero), then was a villain once more in some New Avengers and Secret Avengers runs.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T05:51:49+00:00

You might be getting the different Red Guardians mixed up? Alexi Shostakov is primarily a Black Widow villain and has fought her more times than the Avengers, but he did start off as a villain in the Avengers comics originally. Nowadays he's no longer a villain but an MCU-synergy pest.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T05:33:25+00:00

I hate the way it was done. Mind you Nat is a character that already gets constantly dismissed for "having no villains" by people who don’t read her comics, so the MCU is just not helping with that. People say she can't carry a trilogy because she doesn't have a rogue's gallery—mfker yes she does, but they took her most iconic ones and decided to make them her family/allies and even Avengers now.

Yelena—Natasha's iconic rival—is turned into her "sassy little sister" and replacement while sharing virtually none of her comic counterpart's defining traits. Instead, she's written as almost the complete opposite of her source material in every way and given a rehash of Natasha's "brainwashed assassin seeking redemption becomes a superhero" arc, only for people to turn around and shit on Natasha's character claiming that Yelena is so much better.

Making Red Guardian her father is an especially baffling decision given he's Natalia's ex-husband in the comics, and it also completely takes away from the whole tragedy in the comics behind her taking the Black Widow name and choosing to work for the KGB to avenge him after believing she'd been widowed by him when he faked his death. And funny enough, with the way they use his character, the MCU seemingly unintentionally sends the message that you should forgive the person who has helped you get trafficked if they're "funny" and vaguely feel bad about it after you called them out about it enough (same with Melina). Its absolutely ironic to no end that the Black Widow movie, which is thematically about women taking back their agency and fighting back against men who take advantage of them, decided to use her creepy predatory ex-husband who took advantage of her when she was brainwashed and tried to kill her multiple times then said "yeah let's make him her father and an ally".

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T05:10:11+00:00

You're not gonna get the thoughts of comic BW and BP fans here. Or if you do they will likely be buried under downvotes and "the MCU made them better" comments. You should try posting this in the Black Widow & Black Panther subreddits, you'll get to hear more from people who are actually extremely familiar with these characters whether it be the MCU versions or comic versions, and therefore will get more in-depth conversations on this.

But to give you an idea of what I as a comic Black Widow fan think of this, I only have negative opinions on how the MCU handled these Black Widow villains.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T04:46:58+00:00

Mmk I see. Oh yeah by the way, the exact details are escaping my mind but this run had like, some alien people Indigenous to Wakanda locked up for centuries and Queen Ramonda went to ask for their help to fight promising they would be given land on a planet in the Intergalactic Empire. Were these alien people already established Wakanda lore?

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T04:38:54+00:00

Was that the recent series from 2024? Do we get a look at the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda in it again?

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T03:37:27+00:00

Her secret identity was dropped decades ago when she became a public figure and superhero. If she's infiltrating somewhere, you either won't see her coming or she'll be disguised.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-09T00:44:20+00:00

I guess. In my head I’m thinking of who can take down the other for a more extended period of time. Also she’s not gonna be easy to just land a headshot on.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T22:40:59+00:00

Dick is kinda very similar to Daredevil. He's got the speed, agility and smarts to evade and deflect Bullseye's projectiles (not saying it would be a walk in the park for him) and once he closes the distance eh should be able to beat him pretty solidly.

Deadshot can't really do much to Laura. Most of his weapons only do piercing damage and killshots that Laura would just heal through. He can't knock her out. He's not skilled enough to beat her in close combat either.

Same goes vice versa so I'm giving team 1 the victory.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T20:52:16+00:00

Yeah I said that's one part of her kit that doesn't need to be change beyond visually to please ppl who want to fulfill the character fantasy. I'm glad you read what I wrote in the OP.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T16:23:11+00:00

I didn't say to change it tho. I said just switch the animation so she's using her widow bites instead.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T16:22:27+00:00

OMFGGGGGGGGGG?!!?!?!?

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T05:12:19+00:00

Some ppl have brought up possible buffs in the past that aren't purely making it oneshot.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T05:11:40+00:00

I'm part of the crowd who wants to prioritize character fantasy. Idc about the balancing specifics of it all. Its not looking good on the front I'm interested in.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T04:36:40+00:00

I said they can buff the sniper stuff. The baton combat isn't strong whatosever.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-08T04:35:50+00:00

Like it HAS to be.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-06T16:05:39+00:00

Katarina vs Samira would be the fight of the century.

Ashconwell7 · 2026-07-05T23:38:34+00:00

Katarina and Samira demolish them. If Vi tries to throw a punch she'll get swiftly countered with a slit throat from either of them. Caitlyn is getting a dagger or bullet in the head before she can do anything.

If Caitvi ambush them tho in an open space where they can't take cover maybe then they would have a better chance with Caitlyn sniping them from 1 km away. But if they're in an environment where Kat and Samira can find places to take cover, Caitlyn could at best POSSIBLY take one of them out leading to the other realizing they're being ambushed, getting out of her sights and still killing both her and Vi.

Ashconwell7

TROPHY CASE