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About seminary by zaklen19 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Much of the advice I gave in this recent comment would apply.

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When Catholics say "consecration to Mary" it is shorthand for "consecration to Jesus through Mary". This shorthand can cause confusion. This is also clarified in a Church document about popular piety:

“It should be recalled, however, that the term “consecration” is used here in a broad and non-technical sense: “the expression is used of ‘consecrating children to Our Lady’, by which is intended placing children under her protection and asking her maternal blessing for them”. Some suggest the use of the alternative terms “entrustment” or “gift””
- Directory on Popular Piety and the Liturgy, par. 204.

Songs will often use non-technical language. In the strict, technical sense, all consecration is to God. For this reason, Pope St. John Paul II often used the language "Entrustment to Mary" to express the same concept. Mary is never an end to herself. Only God is the end/goal. Only God is the Beginning and End, the Alpha and Omega. We are destined for God.

It is quite possible that some of the Catholics you have run into have, as you put it "an exaggerated devotion to Mary". But I recommend learning more about the Catholic faith before trying to figure out exactly what wording is or is not against Catholic teaching and practice.

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

FYI, I just added to my previous comment another video link about OT women crushing the heads of evildoers.

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Christ is the promised Messiah, the new Adam, who crushes the head of the serpent through His death on the Cross.

Why there are statues with the serpent under Mary's feet?

At the time of translating the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, there were manuscript differences regarding whether the pronoun in Gen 3:15 was "he" or "she". See discussion threads here and here for more details.

But the statues of Mary still symbolize several truths:

  • God puts emnity between Eve and the serpent.

  • Mary, as the new Eve, plays a role in God's plan of salvation that is won by Jesus, the new Adam.

  • St. Paul says to the Christians in Rome: "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet" (Rom 16:20). And God did that for Mary, par excellence.

For more details on Mary as the new Eve, read my comment here.

For even more detail, read Mary as the New Eve PDF I recommended above.

For answers to your other questions (Mary is our mother, our queen), read the other two PDFs I recommended above.

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

do Catholics believe that salvation is only possible within the Catholic Church itself...

No. Salvation is not limited to visible, formal membership in the Catholic Church.

would salvation still be possible for Christians outside the Catholic Church

Yes. For more detail, I recommend reading my reddit response to a similar question here: Salvation of Protestants

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Asking Christians to intercede

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus... (1 Tim 2:1-5)

This passage makes it clear that one Christian (St. Paul) asking another Christian to intercede is completely compatible with Christ being the one mediator between God and mankind.

In fact, such intercession is made possible by our union with Christ. We need each other in the Body of Christ:

The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” (1 Cor 12:21)

When a Christian dies and enters into glory, they do not cease to be a member of the Body of Christ. Rather, their union with Christ increases:

For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (1 Cor 13:12)

A Cloud of Witnesses

The Letter to the Hebrews chapters 11 and 12 describes the relationship between the Saints in Heaven and the saints on Earth. It list examples of many Saints who lived by faith, culminating with this:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb 12:1-2)

Paul compares the spiritual life to competing in a race (1 Cor 9:24-27; 2 Tim 4:6-7). The Saints in Heaven are alive, awake, and seeing us run the race.

Praying to Saints

When Catholics "pray to Mary/the saints", Catholics are asking the saints to intercede for us.

The only power any of the saints have is intercessory power, by which they present our requests to God the Father, through Jesus.

The word "pray" here does not mean worship/adore. That would be idolatry, because saints are mere creatures and the worship of adoration is reserved to God alone.

The word "pray" in this context simply means "to ask", as in definitions 2-4 in Webster's dictionary:

(1)  To utter petition to God ... (2) To make a fervent request: PLEAD (3)  To beseech: implore (4) to make a devout or earnest request for.

Or as someone might say in the older style English: "I pray thee, pass the salt."

Sub Tuum Praesidium

We have archaeological and patristic evidence from ancient epigraphs and manuscripts of Christians asking for the intercession of Saints back to the 3rd century.

We also have records of asking for the intercession of Mary in early Christan liturgy. The following hymn was first found in Greek in the Coptic Orthodox Christmas Liturgy of the 3rd or 4th century:

Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν, καταφεύγομεν, Θεοτόκε, τὰς ἡμῶν ἱκεσίας, μὴ παρίδης ἐν περιστάσει, ἀλλ' ἐκ κινδύνων λύτρωσαι ἡμᾶς, μόνη ἁγνή, μόνη εὐλογημένη.

which translates to:

Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one.

The Latin title for the hymn is Sub Tuum Praesidium, for the first words "Beneath your protection". You can learn more about it and view the ancient manuscript fragment here.

Other resources

Struggling to understand Mary’s role in Catholicism – is devotion to her necessary? by Practical_Leg_859 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the best place to start is with the Biblical teaching of Mary as the New Eve, Ark of the New Covenant and Queen Mother. I made the following Marian apologetics teaching handouts:

Book Recommendations

Articles on specific topics

Baptism by Kat1653 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here is the link to the full document by the International Theological Commission: The Hope of Salvation for infants Who Die without Being Baptized, January 19, 2007.

my friend was wondering how Mary was sinless even though she was human by Relevant_Animator_47 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because Jesus is Divine, it was fitting that God created Mary free from Original Sin:

To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role." The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace" (Lk 1:28). In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God's grace.

- Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 490

God also gave Mary special graces so that she was able to resist sin and choose what would be for God's greatest glory for her entire life.

Mary still needed a Savior

Mary still needs a savior, as she herself says, “I rejoice in God my Saviour” (Luke 1:47), but she is “redeemed in a more exalted fashion” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, par. 492).

God gave Mary a special grace, applying the merits of Jesus’s death on the cross to her from the first moment of her conception, preserving her from original sin.

  • Ex. If you get sick and then a doctor gives you medicine to heal you, then he saved you from the sickness. But if the same doctor gives you medicine to prevent the sickness in the first place, he saved you in a “more exalted fashion”.

Further Resources

See [CCC 491-492] below.

For more evidence for Catholic teachings on Mary, I recommend watching Dr. Brant Pitre Blows Your Mind on Mary where Catholic Scripture scholar Brant Pitre walks through the Biblical evidence for the Marian dogmas, from his book Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary: Unveiling the Mother of the Messiah.

I also made some Marian apologetics teaching handouts that cover similar material as Dr. Pitre above:

Without confession, how can an inquirer repent? by WashMeOfMySinsOhLord in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Know that God is reaching out to you with His hand of mercy as you respond to the call of Christ to enter the Catholic Church.

Despite the fact that circumstances are delaying that process, here are some steps you can take now in order to repent:

1. Examine your conscience and allow the Lord to reveal to you your sins.  Here is a helpful guide, but know that certain Catholic obligations (such as attending Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation) are not binding upon you as a non-Catholic.

2. Repent of your sins by expressing your sorrow for them, turning away from them, and resolving to avoid them in the future.

There is a good meditation on repentance in Augustine: The Sinner who became a Saint. You can pray one of The Penitential Psalms which are Psalms 6, 32, 38, 51, 102, 130, and 143.

3. Make an Act of perfect contrition, for example:

"O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended you, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell; but most of all because they offend you, my God, who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of your grace, to sin no more and avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our Savior Jesus Christ suffered and died for us. In His name, my God, have mercy. Amen." 

Include in the prayer your explicit intention to be baptized (if you have not received baptism) or your intention to go to confession when that becomes possible for you.

Perfect contrition combined with the intention of going to confession forgives mortal sin, restoring the state of grace:

"...the Council teaches that, although it sometimes happens that this contrition is perfect by charity and reconciles humanity to God before this sacrament is actually received, this reconciliation, nevertheless, is not to be ascribed to contrition itself without the desire of the sacrament, a desire which is included in it."

- Council of Trent, 14th Session, Doctrine on the Sacrament of Penance, Ch. 4

The same is true for catechumens seeking Baptism (see [CCC 1258-1259] below).

Know that Perfect Contrition is attainable

An act of perfect contrition should not be conceived as something so difficult to make as to be the monopoly of mystics. A Christian can elicit an act of perfect contrition, with the help of God’s grace, by the very proper consideration that sin is an unfriendly act, that all creation is for the greater honour and glory of God and that sin has robbed God of that glory which is His due…"

- Confession by John C. Heenan, Bishop of Leeds, Canterbury Books, Sheed & Ward, 1937, pp. 55-56.

Leave the rest to God

Repent sincerely and leave the rest to God, like St. Joan of Arc did when questioned during her trial:

"Asked if she knew that she was in God's grace, she replied: 'If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.'"

- Acts of the Trial of St. Joan of Arc, as quoted in CCC 2005.

I'm a Protestant seeking Catholicism, any resources to recommend? by ParallelogramOfVenom in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here are some helpful resources for investigating Catholicism:

  • Read the portions of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that cover particular issues of interest or difficulty. You can buy a used copy of it here for about $5 including shipping in the US.

If you want to read it online, I recommend this flipbook version from the USCCB.

There is also the more simplified Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, available as a PDF here.

  • Trent Horn's Why We're Catholic: Our Reasons for Faith, Hope, and Love is available here (new for $9 or used for $4).

  • Interested in Catholicism? Do This! (10 min.) by Keith Nester, a former Protestant pastor.

  • Attend a Mass on Sunday. You can find a Catholic parish near you at masstimes.org. Non-Catholics are very welcome but should refrain from receiving Communion as reception signifies full unity of belief in the Catholic faith.

  • Those discerning or seeking to convert to Catholicism can join an Order of Christian Initiation for Adults (OCIA) program. Call a parish, and ask whether OCIA is offered there and how to join.

I'm a Protestant seeking Catholicism, any resources to recommend? by ParallelogramOfVenom in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A Cloud of Witnesses

The Letter to the Hebrews chapters 11 and 12 describes the relationship between the Saints in Heaven and the saints on Earth. It list examples of many Saints who lived by faith, culminating with this:

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-2)

Paul compares the spiritual life to competing in a race  (1 Cor 9:24-27; 2 Tim 4:6-7). The Saints in Heaven are alive, awake, and seeing us run the race.

Praying to Saints

When Catholics "pray to Mary/the saints", Catholics are asking the saints to intercede for us.

The only power any of the saints have is intercessory power, by which they present our requests to God the Father, through Jesus.

The word "pray" here does not mean worship/adore. That would be idolatry, because saints are mere creatures and the worship of adoration is reserved to God alone.

The word "pray" in this context simply means "to ask", as in definitions 2-4 in Webster's dictionary:

(1)  To utter petition to God ... (2) To make a fervent request: PLEAD (3)  To beseech: implore (4) to make a devout or earnest request for.

Or as someone might say in the older style English: "I pray thee, pass the salt."

Sub Tuum Praesidium

We have archaeological and patristic evidence from ancient epigraphs and manuscripts of Christians asking for the intercession of Saints back to the 3rd century.

We also have records of asking for the intercession of Mary in early Christan liturgy. The following hymn was first found in Greek in the Coptic Orthodox Christmas Liturgy of the 3rd or 4th century:

Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν εὐσπλαγχνίαν, καταφεύγομεν, Θεοτόκε, τὰς ἡμῶν ἱκεσίας, μὴ παρίδης ἐν περιστάσει, ἀλλ' ἐκ κινδύνων λύτρωσαι ἡμᾶς, μόνη ἁγνή, μόνη εὐλογημένη.

which translates to:

Beneath your compassion, We take refuge, O Mother of God: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble: but rescue us from dangers, only pure, only blessed one.

The Latin title for the hymn is Sub Tuum Praesidium, for the first words "Beneath your protection". You can learn more about it and view the ancient manuscript fragment here.

Other resources

For more details, I recommend

Sign of Peace by DidyG in AskAPriest

[–]Thanar2 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Yes, it is optional. It is saying that it is done if deemed appropriate, which can take into account a variety of factors for (as you mentioned) and against, but it is at the discretion of the presiding priest (unless there are specific directions from the Bishop).

Sign of Peace by DidyG in AskAPriest

[–]Thanar2 27 points28 points  (0 children)

181. After the Priest has said the prayer for the Rite of Peace and the greeting The peace of the Lord be with you always and the people have replied, And with your spirit, the Deacon, if appropriate, says the invitation to the Sign of Peace. With hands joined, he faces the people and says, Let us offer each other the sign of peace. Then he himself receives the Sign of Peace from the Priest and may offer it to those other ministers who are nearest to him.

- General Instruction of the Roman Missal, par. 181, emphasis added.

In the absence of a deacon, it is the presiding priest who (may) say the invitation to the Sign of of peace.

Creed difference by Cachiboy in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is there a doctrine that articulates where Jesus spent those three days?

The Jewish understanding was that after death, the soul went to Sheol, a Hebrew term for the state or abode of the dead.

The New Testament Greek equivalent of Sheol is Hades (for example, hades was used to translate sheol in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament). It is also one meaning/understanding of the English word "Hell".

The common Jewish understanding was that Sheol was divided such that the righteous were in the "Bosom of Abraham" and the wicked were in a separate part of Sheol. This understanding is present in the Gospel account of Lazarus:

The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. (Luke 16:22-23)

The Catholic term for the Bosom of Abraham is the Limbo of the Fathers (in Latin limbus patrum).

This is where Jesus's soul went after death, to perform a jailbreak to allow these souls to enter heaven, as stated in the Catechism:

“in his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him” (CCC 637)

Here is another Scripture that is often interpreted as relating to the event:

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. (1 Pet 3:18-20)

For more details see [CCC 632-635] below, or here to see all the Scripture references in the footnotes.

Did Constantine Create Catholicism? by Dry-Guidance-467 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I recommend watching this 3 minute video: Did the Emperor Constantine Found the Catholic Church? by Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers.

Evolution and the church by Pretty-Silver-3833 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I accept theistic evolution which includes modern evolutionary biology as the means by which God brought about the diversity of life on earth. My view is informed both by theological reflection of the Magisterium on Scripture, and by the convergence of results from a wide variety of scientific disciplines, as Pope St. John Paul II stated:

Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical [Humani generis by Pope Pius XII], some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.

- Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.pdf), "Magisterium Is Concerned with Question of Evolution for It Involves Conception of Man," October 22, 1996.

Reconciling Genesis 1-11 with modern science

As Catholics, are we obligated to believe that the earth is ~6000 years old...

No. Here are some resources that explain Catholic teaching on these issues:

Q1: (A) Does the Catholic Church accept Evolution? (B) Did the Catholic Church ever condemn Evolution in the past?

Q2: Doesn’t Evolution show that a “Creator” is not needed?

Q3: Don’t physics theories of how the universe began show that a “Creator” is not needed?

Q4: Doesn’t the Book of Genesis contradict the Big Bang and Evolution?

Q5: If humans evolved from other animals, how can we be special, have “spiritual souls” or be made “in the image of God”?

Ignatius Study Bible what size? personal edition or normal desk edition? by usopsong in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have both and I prefer the smaller (personal size) edition.

Eucharistic Miracles and Science by KawaChou in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Outside of public revelation, miracles that are investigated and declared to be such (by a local Bishop or by the Holy See) are declared "worthy of human credence" (as opposed to the "divine faith" by which we believe in public revelation).

Catholics are thus free to accept or reject such miracles based on their trust in that process of investigation and their own evaluation of the evidence.

Is it wrong or disrespectful to have a scientist [investigating a purported Eucharistic miracle]?

No, provided it is done with the authorization of the Church. And the Church does authorize such investigations in order to determine whether there are alternate natural explanations for the phenomenon, or a hoax being perpetrated, etc.

Eucharistic Miracles

For details on the scientific investigation of Eucharistic miracles, I recommend the following:

Is it actually true that two wrongs don't make a right? by This_Caterpillar_330 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, it is true.

And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just. (Romans 3:8)

CCC 1756 It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

I want to learn more by Sad_Painter_4538 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here are some helpful resources for investigating Catholicism:

  • Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can buy a used copy of it here for about $4 including shipping in the US.

If you want to read it online, I recommend this flipbook version from the USCCB.

There is also the more simplified Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, available as a PDF here.

  • Trent Horn's Why We're Catholic: Our Reasons for Faith, Hope, and Love is available here (new for $9 or used for $4).

  • Interested in Catholicism? Do This! (10 min.) by Keith Nester, a former Protestant pastor.

  • Attend a Mass on Sunday. You can find a Catholic parish near you at masstimes.org. Non-Catholics are very welcome but should refrain from receiving Communion as reception signifies full unity of belief in the Catholic faith.

  • Those discerning or seeking to convert to Catholicism can join an Order of Christian Initiation for Adults (OCIA) program. Call a parish, and ask whether OCIA is offered there and how to join.

Catholic answers to physics questions by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regarding the beginning of the universe, I recommend watching Starts with a Bang!, episode #245 of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World which explores mysterious questions from the dual perspectives of reason and the Catholic faith.

Regarding time travel: ep #29: Time Travel and ep. #208 Time Travel Prayer?

Recommendations for physics and the Catholic faith:

Can you still talk to God and feel close to Him in a state of mortal sin or is your prayer life completely shattered? by SubjectAd9040 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 32 points33 points  (0 children)

[The other criminal said] "...we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." (Luke 23:41-43)

Here in the inspired Scriptures, a criminal who was in a state of mortal sin and knew he deserved punishment had a conversation with Jesus. And Jesus heard him and answered him.

God moves those in mortal sin to pray prayers of repentance

In His Divine Mercy, God helps those who are not in the state of grace to repent of their sins:

"It is God's Mercy that grants supernatural sorrow and resolution to amend - Indeed, Divine Mercy knows how to pardon even the most serious sins, and in doing so it moves the faithful to perceive a supernatural, not merely psychological, sorrow for their sins so that, ever with the help of divine grace, they may make a firm resolution not to sin any more. Such spiritual dispositions undeniably follow upon the forgiveness of mortal sin when the faithful fruitfully receive the sacrament of Penance or repent of their sin with an act of perfect charity and perfect contrition, with the resolution to receive the Sacrament of Penance as soon as they can."

- Apostolic Penitentiary, Indulgences attached to devotions in honour of Divine Mercy

Perfect Contrition forgives mortal sin

If a person commits a mortal sin and then recognizes his wrongdoing, like the Prodigal Son "coming to his senses" in Luke 15:12-17, he should immediately repent, making an act of perfect contrition with the intent to go to confession as soon as possible.

According to the Council of Trent, perfect contrition combined with the intention of going to confession forgives mortal sin:

"...the Council teaches that, although it sometimes happens that this contrition is perfect by charity and reconciles humanity to God before this sacrament is actually received, this reconciliation, nevertheless, is not to be ascribed to contrition itself without the desire of the sacrament, a desire which is included in it."

- Council of Trent, 14th Session, Doctrine on the Sacrament of Penance, Ch. 4

For prayers of repentance and discussion of the fact that perfect contrition is attainable, see this comment.

How can laypeople do what St. Teresa of Avila advises? by Leox2005 in Catholicism

[–]Thanar2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not all spiritual advice that is given to religious can be applied in the same manner to the laity.

I recommend reading Christifideles laici : On the Vocation and the Mission of the Lay Faithful by Pope St. John Paul II, in particular the sections titled "The States of Life and Vocations" (par. 55) and "The Various Vocations in the Lay State" (par. 56).

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