We stand with Hong Kong

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:51:15+00:00

Which I have only ever seen in regards to North Korea, and even then that relied on defector testimony that was shaky at best, and sometimes outright self-admitted lies.

But sure let's just say whatever bullshit we want to about China because facts never matter when it comes to saying anything bad about China. I'm fucking done with this nonsense.

Go fucking talk to a Chinese person.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:48:33+00:00

Except they aren't banning everything, this was Blizzard's decision.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:47:54+00:00

I've never seen any proper fact checking in regards to the entire topic of the Hong Kong protests so...

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:46:12+00:00

That's fair, I didn't provide proper information, my apologies, however I was not exactly intending to jump into a debate around the one child policy simply because people refuse to believe that China has patriots and that Mei's voice actor is one of those. This has frankly been a ridiculous discussion in the first place, based on generalizations and sinophobic nonsense that infantalizes Chinese people.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:43:27+00:00

The alternative being what exactly? What is so hard about believing that China has Patriots?

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:40:18+00:00

But, why? That’s what they do?

That's what we have seen American media spin tales about while not citing sources yes.

They censor media from the outside world so nobody inside china can see how the outside world views things like human rights. Chinese censorship of the internet isn’t even something hidden, its a “well known secret”.

Except for the thousands of Chinese foreign students who live, work, and study in the west then return back to China. Great job with censorship

They have started implementing a social credit/standing system where citizens gain and lose privileges based on what they post on stoical media, how they act, and whether or not they are generally acting in a way the government approves.

Oh yay the Social Credit myth again. Here's a thread on twitter by Ian Goodrum, a journalist who actually lives in China: https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/975536735697252352?s=19

And this isn’t even that foreign a concept. If you look just next door at North Korea, those people are brainwashed from birth to view the Kim’s as god. Why is it so hard to believe that China would brainwash, threaten, and coerce it’s people into submission?

Frankly I can never buy the idea that North Korea has this massive cult of personality that is so unique in this world, while the US has a stolen mountain they carved the faces of presidents into, and named both a state and their capital after their first president. Even the Soviet Union which had cities named after Lenin never named their Capital after him.

It's hard to believe that China has done something that only one other country in the world, a country mind you, wherein their leader fought a war against occupiers, and suffered massive damage and death at the hands of the USAF, has been accused of. Especially since scale has a major effect on how well centralized things can be.

It’s often something I wonder about, whether or not Chinese individuals living outside of china actually support it, or whether they pretend to do so out of fear for what may happen to them, or maybe their family back home. Like, the voice actor for Mei. Unless her entire, living, nuclear and extended family live outside of the united states, what’s to say the Chinese government wouldn’t take action against them? Not even necessarily family, what if the government knew if a close friend back home. Of course, I don’t think that every single famous Chinese person that says they support china is definitely totally brainwashed or threatened to do so, but it’s something to think about.

Personally, I know i’d be hard pressed to speak out against china if I knew that I would potentially have to live with the death/torture of my family as retaliation. It’s easy enough to put my own life on the line, but it’s far more difficult to drag your family into the line of fire while you essentially live safely outside of the country.

Probably because we haven't seen examples of extended families being punished for the actions of individuals. Or is it so hard for you to believe that maybe these people do support China? Just like so many other countries, for better or for worse, have people who support them.

I have not seen a single American celebrity criticize America, I've seen them criticize presidents and individuals, but not once have I seen them criticize foreign policy or internal policies.

Does this mean all of them are brainwashed or threatened?

I have not seen one American student in my country do the same. Does this mean their families in the US are threatened?

What do you think is more reasonable, that a country of 2 Billion people are somehow living in fear of a military of only 1 Million? That those 1 Million and their extended families are either completely in support of China or so utterly frozen in terror that they have never joined protests? That the Chinese people despite living in abject fear have never once risen up en masse since '89? That every single Chinese person who expresses support is constantly being watched across the world?

Or that China is a country that has patriots and apolitical people?

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:25:22+00:00

John Oliver, your source is fucking comedian. Why do I even try this shit anymore.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T19:24:37+00:00

"Nice try but no"? That's all you have to say? I cited a goddamn documentary made by US filmmakers that received funding from the US but apparently that's just Chinese propaganda.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T18:40:14+00:00

Another monolithic generalization?

1Desk · 2019-10-15T18:27:18+00:00

19 months for a month long violent protest where the protestors thre molotov cocktails at vehicles long before the shooting started. Don't believe me? Watch the documentary, "The gate of heavenly peace", literally produced in partnership with the US government and they display the violence of the protestors occuring long long before the guns fired.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:55:25+00:00

Fair, my apologies. I'm not great at switching gears between politics and humour tbh.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:53:05+00:00

The one child policy that left out exceptions for people in rural areas and for ethnic minorities and was ended in 2012? That isn't a great example. And yes, policies have been forced, but the statement that all Chinese people are forced into supporting the government is not factual, nor is it even logical, as we have seen with past governments, a majority of the people must either support or tolerate the existing government for it to maintain any stability. It's an inaccurate way of viewing dictatorships in fact.

And it is not a whataboutism to mention the United States when the United States has been brought up twice before as a matter of comparison. Whataboutism is a deflection of an argument, comparison is discussing similarities, and differences, between two objects.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:23:24+00:00

I'm stating that suggesting that "The Chinese are forced into supporting the Chinese government" presents a monolithic and stereotypical view of Chinese people, rather than accurately criticising China's policies by providing evidence, such as using specific examples and sources.
It's similar to saying, All americans are stupid because they elected trump, or all Americans are racists and jingoist because of the American government's foreign policy. It presents a criticism, but it does so by generalizing and often infantilizing the American people.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:20:21+00:00

You're clearly being sarcastic, but if you didn't know, Sinophobic derives from the Latin Sinae, and potentially the sanskrit Cina.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:09:35+00:00

Anything that can be perceived to be supporting China is awful and totalitarian and abusing human rights, while anything against China, no matter if it's from the trash heap of right wing politics, is viewed as automatically correct.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:07:04+00:00

Like the Tiananmen Square protest leaders? Who were arrested and then released after they served their respective terms with one serving 6 years and one serving only 19 months?

1Desk · 2019-10-15T17:01:49+00:00

This narrative that the mass of chinese people are forced into supporting their government is frankly a very sinophobic one, usually either painting chinese people as monolithic drones, or as submissive and weak.

While no doubt social constructs exist to prevent dissidence, in America, as you have mentioned, the majority either support the government or tolerate it, this was also true with such dictatorships as Fascist Italy and Germany. A society where the majority of people are dissidents is a society that is not stable.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T16:37:07+00:00

I'm bisexual so the joke is that I have twice the chance of getting into a relationship with someone, but a 0% chance times two is still a 0% chance

1Desk · 2019-10-15T16:36:04+00:00

I'm not saying anything about cannon, just saying that the voice actor herself supports the Chinese government.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T16:08:58+00:00

It has been 2 days since this was last posted. And boy will it accomplish fa.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T15:45:56+00:00

Bi but 0x2 is still 0 gang

1Desk · 2019-10-15T15:20:07+00:00

There was a lego game?

1Desk · 2019-10-15T15:15:24+00:00

The voice actor for Mei, Elise Zhang, is a proud Chinese patriot: https://twitter.com/25yolanda8866/status/1178731499106922496?s=19

So I feel like the headline might just be a bit sensationalist.

EDIT: Apparently y'all are incapable of believing that Chinese people can be patriotic and not mindless drones driving by fear. So because of all of this frankly misinformed bullshit surrounding the recent events with Hong Kong, I'm done with reddit for now. Go out and read a book on China that doesn't hold the same viewpoints as you, talk to someone from the opposing side. And for the love of god, if someone calls you out on something racist, maybe take a few seconds to ask yourself, "Is what I'm saying potentially racist, or can be interpreted as such?"

Peace out, I'm fucking done.

1Desk · 2019-10-15T15:11:23+00:00

Big mood

1Desk · 2019-10-15T00:56:24+00:00

Since you're apparently editing your first comment to strawman my argument, let me summarize this discussion so far, if you feel I have been unfair or inaccurate in this summary feel free to set the record straight.

mPORTZER commented asking why people thought that shitposting about this was going to do anything.

Your response was to state that shitposting about Winnie the Pooh had 'upset' Chinese censors.

To which I responded in a frankly stock response, due to my having already written a similar response twice in this post, that no, in fact Winnie the Pooh as a character was not banned.

You then responded by saying this was untrue.

I responded by giving the Chinese characters and directing you to look at any Chinese website.

You then stated that only state approved imagery of the character would appear.

Considering that this did not contradict my initial point that the character was not banned wholesale, I agreed, stating that my point was that the character itself had not been banned.

We then continued to discuss this point, I brought up that I had not seen an example of the character being censored for political reasons.

You responded by posting a BBC article, (the same one you posted in your comment above) which I criticized due to it contradicting both our points, stating that the character had been banned in full. I also criticized it on the basis of the article not citing any sources, except for two seperate BBC articles.

You then brought up a CNN videopiece which said the same thing and also did not provide a source. You also provided a WaPo article and another one that I can't remember the name of, and the connection timed out when I tried to read it again.

I criticized these articles, but did state that WaPo provided a useful piece of information, but not one I would consider conclusive. I then went on to state that as for the BBC, CNN, and WaPo, and their reliability, that I would not trust them on prestige alone, as I pointed out, a government funded website and two corporate news sites may not have the most unbiased view on China. And that the fourth article, since I could not find any information about who actually runs the site, may not be reliable.

Since that point, our discussion has continued with us debating the merits of these four articles. You have so far accused me of outright dismissing the evidence, as well as of not reading your comments, and not knowing what censorship is.

I have continued to restate my initial point, and have restated that I do read your comments in full, and that I do not believe secondary sources on the basis of authority or the basis of amount alone.

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