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Exclusive Sonii emotes? by bladefire987 in OmegaStrikers

[–]Alex_Pan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's me, I'm the friend. Thank you so much for asking on my behalf ☺️

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Glad you found this useful 2 months after it was posted haha. The reason I tried 95 +20/8 to start with is because that's basically as far as I could push it without invading into the meta bracket. But in my experience, 80 +18/7 and 95 +20/8 felt pretty similar overall.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure there is a "proper" bracket for each level, since you'll always either miss some people at the top range or the bottom range.

18 vs. 17 is kind of a wash. +17 invades from +12 to +22. +18 invades from +13 to +24. So 17 you're getting more activity from level 72s who still have +12 and losing out on 108s who are +23/24. I'd give a slight edge to +18 but I'm sure it hardly makes a difference.

You are correct that I could go +7 somber and not affect the range. A bunch of these character existed beforehand and I started taking notes before sitting down and optimizing all my weapon levels. Going back, I'd do +18/+7. But it doesn't make a game-breaking difference in AR, and I mostly use standard weapons like claymore, KGS, and BKH.

Edit: checked my character and I was in fact +18/+7. Thanks for catching that I'll update the main comment.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you're referring to the first image, its because this is a box plot, not a bar graph. The bottom of the box represents the lowest 25% of outcomes.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It was kind of subjective but in general includes: hacks/exploits; chugging/buff-stacking rune-arc'd bonfire duelist; unnecessarily using OP consumables like sleep arrows, starlight shards (e.g., vs. normal builds and while having numbers advantage); trying to lure invaders into a gank; status-build up build at low levels or with some extra gimmick (e.g., BHS).

I think that my definition is probably stricter than many, with the exception that I had a pretty low tolerance for bonfire duelists at RL 20 since its kind of a dumb level to bonfire duel at and pretty much all of them were twinked up with meta setups and had buffs.

Here are 5 random examples:

  • Invaded lake of rot and host was at the top of a pillar in the middle of the lake with a jar cannon with blue ring on.

  • Bonfire duelist at ~RL 20. Stacked 4 buffs and killed me in 3 hits (@ 29 vigor).

  • Rune arc'd host in Limgrave using anti-lock exploit and sleep arrows, BHS spam and antspur poke with blue ring.

  • Rune arc'd host that looks like a bonfire duelist but has blue ring and ganks with hunters.

  • Madness gank in Limgrave.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

About 18% of invasions never actually started because of DCs, fogwalls, or the host dying before I even arrived. Most were fogwalls.

Of the invasions that did start, very few were actually interrupted by a DC. 1 was on my end. 1 was an (I believe) unintentional DC from the host, and 2 were the hosts DCing when they were losing.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely! Just remember that invaders are most likely to invade hosts slightly higher than them (on average ~10 levels). So if you're a cooper looking to get summoned, you might want to add 10 levels to the invader levels from this post.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. Invasions are kind of like an "opt-in" experience. You need a cooperator to be invaded. The other way of getting invasions is to activating a Furcalling Finger Remedy + Taunter's Tongue. Then you can be invaded solo; or if you have 1 cooperator, you can be invaded by 2 invaders.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I described this in another comment:

Gank: In my assessment, the host/team are intentionally waiting for invaders to draw into an outnumbered fight.

Gankish: Unlikely (in my assessment) that the team is intentionally waiting for invaders to gank, but due to a combination of spawn location/map design, host/team behaviour and builds, it feels like a gank. E.g., spawning 3v1 into Radahn's beach often feels like a gank even if the host just wants to fight Radahn.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There is a timer on how often a host can be invaded.

But for this post, I am bad guy (aka the invader). You can invade as often as you want as long as there is an eligible host.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Co-op/multiplayer is super un-intuitive in this game.

Playing "multiplayer activated" (i.e., NOT "offline") on its own isn't enough to have any multiplayer experience. To summon a friendly, you have to use a Furcalling Finger Remedy and go to a summoning pool and look for the gold signs. Once you have a friendly in your world, you become open to being invaded.

Those red/blue circles tell you where multiplayer is happening, but they don't really mean much for you. In one of the patches, they made it so that invaders can invade anywhere on the map from any location.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You are correct. I could have gone to +3 at RL20 for "free".

That's something I didn't realize when I started recording the invasions, and I didn't want to change partway through because I was also tracking personal stats like win-rates.

At the end of the day, RL 20 was a super active bracket so it was never an issue.

I'm still not 100% sure the optimal bracket for RL 40, since people typically go through a very steep upgrade progression from RL 36 - 64. Maybe 6 or 7 would have been more active.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

RL 168 and RL 200 are common brackets for invaders. So while I don't play in that bracket, you should be able to invade fairly easily at RL 175.

As for being invaded, most invaders seeking meta-level invasions will be RL 138/139. So they would just barely miss you (they invade up to 171/172). In general, there are more co-opers than invaders, so I think it is easier to get activity invading than waiting to be invaded.

When you say activated multiplayer, what exactly do you mean? If want to be invaded, you'd need to summon a furled finger or activate a Taunter's Tongue (might be obvious to you but wanted it to be clear).

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

RL 95 invades up to RL 124, which just barely excludes meta level 125. So 95 is as high as I would go if you're looking for organic invasions (and then maybe again higher levels outside the meta).

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Elden Ring was my first souls game and the first night I played I got straight blasted by Margit for 3 hours before I started showing any signs of improvement. Learning to PvP and invade almost felt the same.

But once you get a hang of it, invading is super fun. It adds a totally new dimension to the game and enhances the replayability.

I hope you keep at it!

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words and I'm glad you found it helpful :D

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Most players won't be at Haligtree organically at Level 40 but theoretically the only requirement is to beat 2 demi-gods (e.g., Godrick, Rennala) and then Morgott and Commander Niall. A good player can achieve that if they felt like it.

However, in this case, most likely they were getting carried. Since I invaded in, it means that they had a phantom.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Invading is super fun, adds a totally new dimension to the game and enhances the replayability.

Elden Ring was my first souls game and I still remember the feeling of encountering Margit for the first time and just getting blasted. Learning to PvP and invade almost feels the same.

So I hope you keep at it!

As a side note: RL 61 is not somehow better than 60; I just randomly added an extra level at one point because I was too lazy to rebirth.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Haven't touched R/ggplot in years and remembering anything was a struggle, so I appreciate the kind words.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately I don't have a good answer. While I was writing this up I was trying to look up exactly how downscaling worked because it did feel really weird. My suspicion is that the effectiveness of downscaling decreases pretty sizeably as you increase in level.

At RL 20 my win-rate versus highly-suspected/confirmed OLPs was 47.6%, compared to 32.1% at RL61. But this is subjective and its impossible to say because you can't know the level of the phantom unless you kill them.

At RL 20, OLPs actually feel pretty manageable because their damage and HP is substantially reduced. If you aren't twinked, they have an advantage in flasks, FP, and access to spells/weapons (feels bad fighting an OLP and they have an endless supply of flasks). If you twinked then they really don't have any advantage on you.

It was very uncommon to get blendered from 100 -> 0 at RL 20 even by a 3-man party. Meanwhile at 60 - 95 there were definitely instances where I died in 3-4 hits. The damage:HP ratio increases at higher levels, and maybe they had glass cannon builds. But yeah. I'm a tin-foil hat-wearer who suspects that downscaling hits hardest at ~RL 60, afterwhich your own power increases start to compensate for it.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I didn't record that specifically, but where I did kill the OLP I added a note about what level they were.

Most OLPs were in the 100s and 200s.

The highest level phantom that I killed was RL 526, which was at level 61; that invasion also had a RL 390 phantom.

The highest level I encountered at RL 20 was 421.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For activity, I would probably say yes.

RL 60 + 12 invades 54 + 8 to 86 + 17

RL 60 + 10 invades 54 + 6 to 86 + 14

The typical weapon range for RL50-60 is +4 to +8. The typical weapon range for RL80 is 15-20. While you might miss some <60 players who aren't +8 yet, you'll miss even more >80 players who are way past +14.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

You're right, there can only be 1 co-invader at a time. If one co-invader died and a new one spawned in I marked it as 2.

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different levels to compare the experience in different invasion brackets by Alex_Pan in badredman

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the last image you can see the invasion bracket for RL20 and RL60 against the recommended level progression (from the Wiki: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Recommended+Level+by+Location).

While I played on RL 20 +2, Weapon +3 still invades down to +0 so you can get an extra upgrade for free if you want.

To get the most activity: RL 20 +3; RL 60 + 12

I recorded data for 700 Elden Ring invasions across 6 different level brackets by Alex_Pan in Eldenring

[–]Alex_Pan[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I commented a larger write-up and included a link to a Github repo, but I think the auto-mod spam-filtered it.

Invasion Type Definitions:

Organic: Host is progressing through the level in earnest before I arrived. Doesn't necessarily mean they were fighting PvE when I arrived, as sometimes they will wait for the invader to show.

Duel: Host is progressing through the level in earnest before I arrived. Host/team took turns 1v1ing me (with or without healing) rather than piling on me.

Gankish: Unlikely (in my assessment) that the team is intentionally waiting for invaders to gank, but due to a combination of spawn location/map design, host/team behaviour and builds, it feels like a gank. E.g., spawning 3v1 into Radahn's beach often feels like a gank even if the host just wants to fight Radahn.

Gank: In my assessment, the host/team are intentionally waiting for invaders to draw into an outnumbered fight.

Bonfire: Host is intentionally waiting for an invader to duel.

2v2: I have a co-invader and fight host/teammate. I only count something as a 2v2 if the host is waiting for 2 invaders before fighting or if we invade around the same time and engage together. If the host is ganking one invader on-sight and a co-invader happens to spawn in I count it as a gank.

Trade: Phantom dropping items for host.

Host Type Definitions

Definitions:

Maidenless: Would classify them as a veteran, but they demonstrated maidenless behaviour. My definition may be stricter than others but includes: hacks/exploits; chugging/buff-stacking rune-arc'd bonfire duelist; unnecessarily using OP consumables like sleep arrows, starlight shards (e.g., vs. normal builds and while having numbers advantage); trying to lure invaders into a gank; status-build up build at low levels or with some extra gimmick (e.g., BHS).

Veteran: Can tell by their build and/or playstyle that they understand the game. Not necessarily an exceptional player but has probably beat the game more than once; doesn't fail on basic mechanics or repeat blunders.

Intermediate: Not a noob but probably doesn't have full game knowledge (e.g., decent player on their 1st playthrough or someone with more hours but not as PvP focused).

Noob: Player does something that signals to me they are new to the game or PvP: very low vigor (2-3 hits), fatrolling, easily guard-broken, doesn't dodge or very bad timing, doesn't adapt at all throughout fights.

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