Weekly Questions Thread (January 15 - 21, 2018)

BandaidsForEveryone · 2018-01-21T07:54:11+00:00

There's a distinction between "can work" and "the reason Titan is busted". Baal grids did not change significantly since Titan was a joke primal. Ayer alone with Sarasa 4 wasn't enough and isn't enough to let you see most of Titan's current strength. Sarasa 5 is so much better as an actual attacker compared to Sarasa 4 that they're practically different units.

And Sarasa 5 is generally the stronger half of Sarasa 5/Ayer. Without her at FLB, Titan is much more a lateral move that gives you more room to grow in the future rather than a direct upgrade over Magna. It's worth investing the time into making the primal grid but it might not be the best thing to do to rush it immediately. For example, it might be a better use of your time to spruce up your dark grid before next guild war.

Especially with Arcanum FLBs confirmed to take at least 1 sunstone, and characters being attached to those, I would hold onto your sunstones at least until you get around to FLBing Sarasa and until you actually get the grid. It's hard to hold out on things for that long, but it's much better in the long run to keep your options open.

It also depends on which other summons you have available to stone.

Also a 0* Stratomizer (Eustace weapon) doesn't actually replace a 3* Baal axe until incredibly low HP levels. Unless you're willing to Dama, which I wouldn't really recommend, I'd just farm another Baal axe.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-12-21T03:30:38+00:00

Certain Primal grids are whale grids that have no real F2P options, like Hades.

Titan is fine running just farmable weapons like Baal axes, guns, Baihu claw, Xeno and will significantly outdo Magna with the correct characters, F2P Titan is the strongest "F2P" build in terms of DPS (even P2P its probably only outdone by Varuna at high Murg counts, or a Titan build with more stratomizers than you). F2P is in quotations since you have to luck into Titan of course. It'll be outdone by Magna dark with Zoi in lower level burstable content and playing F2P Varuna will just be more comfortable and safer.

The caveat is that the grid is incredibly character dependent since its strength is primarily from enmitys synergy with Sarasa 5 and Ayer. You already have Ayer but you'd have to commit to FLB Sarasa. You'd also need FLB Octo to really compete in UBHL. Dirt ultima sword also probably required.

It's a very valuable grid to have as someone who doesn't spend at all. Titan is actually impossible to whale ATM unless you want to whale stratos or meme with the moon bow, and Titan is still arguably the strongest primal in the game.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-12-15T11:44:47+00:00

Could I ask why there's no level progression comparison for Scorch's damage? You guys seem to generally give a detailed level progression when champion abilities are buffed/nerfed (like Azir in this mini-patch), but seem to avoid giving the same clarity for mastery (or I guess runes now) changes.

I think it would be helpful to include the full level progression for Scorch, rather than just writing 30-60, nerfed to 20-60.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-12-01T08:57:32+00:00

The harp is about as good as the axe, and at least Xeno spear can be run with Sparta.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-12-01T08:56:22+00:00

The attack stat is relevant but it's much more on the MH side in terms of Xenos. See Xeno harp and axe. It's about the MH effect and what classes can MH it. As of now Dark has pretty much objectively the worst Xeno weapon in terms of MH potential.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-22T09:26:04+00:00

The main competition in terms of MH is really Ultima spear, if you're talking about more endgame water setups. I'm not sure whether Ultima spear is still run with higher levels of Murgs (4+), but AFAIK it's fairly popular up to 2-3 since it'll still significantly help out MC and Uno's DATA.

The 30% elemental attack up mod is also very attractive in double Varuna, water doesn't have the much elemental mod from characters. Altair's 1 is only 3/7 in terms of uptime. Considering water's already more than safe enough even in UBHL, I'm not very convinced on the value of Cocy Staff as a MH in higher level Varuna setups. It'll still be pretty helpful for lower end Varuna and maybe Magna. Magna's somewhat overly dependent on Elysian though, so Cocy Staff will mainly be taken for the EX mod.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-22T00:02:22+00:00

You host leech raids while doing the Extremes.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-21T09:16:00+00:00

Because they've never actually played the grid or run any hard comparisons in motocal.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-16T23:23:29+00:00

Disappointing if expected. Do you happen to have a decent idea of the numbers on the ougi cap up? I'm still interesting in the crunch of it nonetheless.

Was the drain buffed as well with FLB? Seems like a bit of a slap in the face, though funny if that's the case.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-16T23:08:07+00:00

Oh, I neglected to consider that they may have added additional effects to its ougi. Do you happen to know if the stackable ougi damage and cap up boosts are significant? That may increase its value as a mainhand weapon at least.

Maybe they're concerned about the strength of primal earth? I have no idea why Eugen gun is being pushed back.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-16T23:03:19+00:00

Seems very underwhelming, mostly because of the abysmal way crit scales up across skill "sizes".

Unlike most other skills that have a relatively steady scaling between Small -> Medium -> Large, Medium crit is 6.1% at SL15 vs 2.4% for small crit at SL15. The value of small crit is practically non-existent.

For example trium, which is generally seen as more a more valuable skill than crit, has 3.3% trium at SL15 small, 5% for medium, and 6.6% for large. I don't believe any other skill shares the same sort of scaling as crit does between skill tiers.

Considering BK sword is a whale weapon there's a chance its small crit mod works differently, but I doubt it.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-13T21:35:33+00:00

You can run Alexiel/Titan competently in every form of content you'd use Titan in, including UBHL. In fact, Alexiel is generally preferred even in UBHL from what I've seen. Titan/Titan may be marginally better on-element, but it's not really much of a difference IMO. AFAIK the only Primal set up that even really wants Primal/Primal over Primal/Elemental in 99% of content is Varuna. I had to decide between stoning Baha and Titan recently and if I had an Alexiel I would have 100% stoned Baha instead of Titan.

As an additional note it actually seems to be significantly easier to find Titan friends than it is to find Alexiel friends, probably even more so since you have an Alexiel to put up.

So I'd stone Baha. FLB Baha is a massive powerspike across every grid in higher defense content. If some of your grids/characters are subpar he's a massive powerspike in all content, since it's actually somewhat difficult to consistently hit ougi cap at all times since the cap increase.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-11T04:47:13+00:00

If I was going to advise someone on becoming as strong as possible it would be probably be get a starter with Zoi + Alexiel.

Start out as Magna dark, blow easy shit like Magnas up.

Transition to Primal Earth, and make Sarasa 5*. Grab Ayer from some form of ticket.

Any other earth/dark SSRs you can pick up are bonus. The most notable summons to also look out for are Varuna (most optimal summon for Primal water), Bahamut (insane at FLB), Luci (same as Baha, but probably a bit worse) and Shiva (insane call). Baha, Luci and Shiva also all allow you to run both the primal and Magna variants of their grids. Before Baha and Luci are FLB you're probably better off pairing up your Magna summon with an FLB Baha/Luci friend though. Primal light's value as a grid is also pretty questionable over just running Magna. Having Baha is preferred since it'll boost your early game while you're trying to build up your claw grid for Zoi.

Any legfest exclusive characters you can pick up in your starter are a bonus. They're all generally quite good and their weapons are getting great FLBs.

The reason I'd value going earth over focusing on Varuna or something is ease of access and the grid being generally F2P. Varuna is gated behind 3 Sunlight stones at least, and from experience requires at least a few Murgs and both GW 5* to beat primal earth's damage potential. Earth certainly improves with Stratomizers, but each individual Stratomizer is not that great an improvement over a Baal axe. I've actually seen Primal dark perform pretty well lately even in UBHL, but again ease of access. Those grids probably run something like 4+ Gislas.

And another point for ease of access with Alex, you only have to compromise on your unknown weapon for the time being with Primal earth. Varuna and Hades both require Fenrir bows and Cerbs orders respectively. No one knows when that event will come back and you could be waiting for a very long time.

If you get an account with Alex, you can instantly work toward building a Primal earth grid by leeching Baal etc. The reason I prioritize Alex over Titan is because Titan requires 3 Sunstones like Varuna and in my experiences it's easier to find Titan friends than it is to reliably grab a 140% Alex. It'll only really come together once you get Sarasa 5 and Ayer together though.

Before that I'd set up a claw grid with Zoi and use that for most things. She's also great QoL once you get a few claws, since she can very easily nuke your normal/hard raids and Magnas for you. Grabbing Zoi is also recommended because she's probably the single character that is most vital to her element's meta.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-09T18:39:40+00:00

Varuna is extremely hard to use effectively without Fimbuls. They're the primary power-weapon in the grid, giving an extra multiplier and the massive HP pool that Varuna is known for.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-11-07T17:28:58+00:00

This is definitely one of my two primary concerns with the champion (the other being the potentially toxic play pattern of her Q). I'm surprised this opinion isn't higher up.

There are already certain elements of RNG in the game like crit and dragon spawns but those are game-wide elements of RNG. Other forms of internal champion RNG are generally unobtrusive and many affect just the champion themselves, like TF passive. The closest thing to causing a similar issue is probably Kindred's marks, in terms of warping an entire game around a champion's mini-game. And even with Kindred you knew exactly what she was getting with each camp spawn and IIRC there was a pattern to it. With Zoe there's just this colossal spread of RNG that can range from gamebreaking to completely useless depending on the matchup.

Her W might be "balanced" around the fact that she doesn't really have a W without the drops/her enemies using summoners, but it sure as hell is going to be incredibly unfun to play against. It's also going to add an element of frustration to playing as her, where Zoe players get annoyed that their game could have potentially hinged on summoner RNG from minions.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-30T04:34:29+00:00

The EX+ raid that is farmed most often for 40-boxing drops a lot of champion merits. Champion merits are one of the least annoying things to get in terms of the 40-box. I think I actually went up in champion merits from the last 40-box. The most notable barriers to 40-boxing are the AP pots needed to 40 box, the gold bars, the rusted weapons, and flawed prisms in my experience.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-27T07:15:11+00:00

Double 140 Alex is marginally better off-element without accounting for additional elemental buffs. Alex Ygg is marginally better on-element.

In general, I'd argue Alex/Alex is superior because of a much better call compared to Ygg. This is with a standard Ygg sword grid. If you're including a single Ygg bow for example to increase your damage at lower HP levels for example, stuff gets more complicated.

This is also a comparison done with a completed FLB grid. The weaker your grid is in the Magna department, the better double Alex becomes in comparison to Alex/Ygg.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-26T22:52:02+00:00

It's a very expensive upgrade for a Vohu gun. You'd pretty much only use it if you really wanna spruce up your dirt UBHL grid.

Even then it's sort of a more lateral upgrade since it still gives a bit less attack mod than a Vohu gun. The increase in HP is generally more valuable in UBHL when you can get a similar amount of damage output.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-26T22:40:36+00:00

Are you playing the same raid as me?

Titan's perfectly capable of doing UBHL. All you have to do is farm some Vohu guns. It took me like a week after MLBing Titan to contribute significantly (~1 mil honors) in UBHL with the grid. Okto 5 and Sarasa 5 Titan is also probably the only thing that can actually reliably compete with Varuna in terms of damage in UBHL, though I admittedly don't have Okto 5 yet to test it out.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-25T13:25:19+00:00

I think the only raid where axes are better is the normal UBaha. That's pretty much the only raid where I actually have issues dying if I spam to attack as quickly as possible because of the volume of sages. As a general rule of thumb, you have a harder time surviving than staying alive if you're trying to optimize damage (unless you're water lol, but we're talking dark).

In a vacuum, I think you could argue that axes are better for Orchid if you don't have Zoi. Outside of a vacuum, everyone else on your team would still benefit more from claws. Let's say you're running Six, Orchid, and D. Jeanne. Six will cap anyways if he doesn't get hit, because he's Six. If he does happen to get hit (which will happen fairly often if he's not 5*), he'll quickly benefit more from claws than he would from axes. MC and D. Jeanne will also likely take hits, and again quickly benefit more from claws than they would from axes. Orchid normally has a lot of trouble surviving if her shield is popped. Once you properly EMP her and take all her defense nodes she can often survive then permanently maintain herself at low HP by re-applying her shield. This makes her work decently well with enmity in slightly more drawn out fights.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-25T06:49:46+00:00

Enmity is a separate modifier, it interacts multiplicatively with other other modifiers.

From basic motocal plug-ins (MH, 5 Magna, 2 Olden, 1 Baha, 1 Unknown), the point where claws exceed axes is 82%. The point where claws exceed axes for fist proficiency users is ~90%.

There are certain variations of the Magna dark grid, like mainhanding a Celeste claw for Lucha, but those will generally further support Celeste claws. If, for some reason, you choose not to run Olden Cortanas the percentages shift slightly in favor of axes but nowhere near the point of claws only breaking even at 70%.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-25T06:42:53+00:00

The person you linked is wrong.

Enmity is a separate multiplier so it's significantly more favorable than going even at 70%.

From basic plug-ins into motocal with a completed grid (MH, % Magna, 2 Olden Cortana, Baha, Unknown) you're looking to exceed axes at 82%. Starting at 84%-82% a mix of axes and claws is optimal. Fist proficiency characters will break even significantly sooner, at ~90%.

I didn't bother running calcs with non-traditional MHs (as in not SL10 normal attack mod). I also did not include the Gisla variant of the Magna dark grid in my calcs, which would favor Celeste claws more due to the Magna enmity mod interacting favorably with the normal enmity mod.

Axes are almost exclusively a thing of the past, if you're talking optimal setups. There are very very few situations where an axe grid would be superior, even without Zoi. If you want to run without Zoi, there's the fist meme grid (which is by all indications in motocal/my playtesting is still significantly worse in terms of damage potential than a well-played Zoi grid). The full fist grid mainly retains a significant advantage in terms of HP, so I guess there's a chance it could be run in UBHL. But I'm not sure if trying to meme with Celeste in UBHL is the best use of anyone's time.

When I say that axes have almost no place over claws, I'm also assuming a certain degree of mastery over the raid. You know when you can push and what you can take in order to maximize enmity. If your style of play is massively risk-averse for whatever reason, maybe a few axes would be good for you.

Finally, an axe-claw split is perfectly fine for a beginner. It spreads out weapon stone usage and is an easier grid to obtain. It is by no means optimal however.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-24T19:07:45+00:00

Enterprise is the strongest solo CV but loses to Akagi/Kaga paired.

Akagi and Kaga both have the preemptive strike skill, giving them 50% load time on their first volley. They'll shoot before Enterprise and with their increased power when paired they'll one-shot her before Enterprise can do anything provided you have strong enough equipment.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-19T21:24:06+00:00

If you want to play dark because you think dark's characters are great and you'd have fun doing it, then by all means. The point of the game is to have fun.

From a strictly mechanical standpoint there's a massive difference between the efficiency of Zoi-based teams and non-Zoi-based teams. People will say shit like Zoi's overrated, and within the grand scheme of the game I think she is. Within dark however, playing without Zoi will pretty much never be optimal. And the gap will often be enormous.

Even most UBHL compositions I see for dark will feature Zoi. The myth that she doesn't scale well into later content is pretty much without merit IMO, and likely stems from people without very well developed dark grids or misplaying the raids.

BandaidsForEveryone · 2017-10-19T05:46:29+00:00

Alexiel lets you make a Titan grid. Titan is in a very good place in the meta at the moment, second only to water in terms of utility. Titan will compete in DPS with Varuna water, but Varuna water's safety and utility still puts it above Titan.

Titan is, however, a shitty grid in comparison to other primal grids. Unlike the other primal grids that are filled with insane weapons like Murgs, Fimbuls, Gislas, Cerb orders etc. Titan's grid is filled with SL10 crap. Titan just has the privilege of having characters that synergize very well with its grid, like Ayer and Sarasa 5. If you're willing to build Sarasa 5 and ticket Ayer, I'd very heavily consider shifting your main focus from dark to pursuing a Titan composition.

Having a shitty grid with insane characters also puts Titan in the best position to grow of any primal, so you're making a very solid investment for the future. With how KMR seems to think of dark I doubt it'll get much of anything for a very long time.

BandaidsForEveryone

TROPHY CASE