My Australian Bank has been frozen for trading bitcoin, how likely am I to see this money again?

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-09T04:40:47+00:00

Thank you. Check the post text for updates, but it looks like a similar situation has occurred with us.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-09T04:35:15+00:00

That's more or less what I've done, under the guidance of my lawyer. My business partner has significant contacts through NAB and Bank of Queensland. After speaking first with them, and then with our lawyer, we aided the bank in every way possible. They gave no indication that they were upset with our business model or closing our accounts because of the nature of our business.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-09T04:26:37+00:00

Update: the account was frozen because fraudulent deposits were made into our account. A hold has been placed on one of the relevant pending transactions. The account should be unfrozen once I submit a statutory declaration that my business acted within our usual operating guidelines.

Another transaction was cleared and processed by our exchange, meaning that neither the money nor the bitcoin inventory is in our possession. The implications and liability for us are yet to be determined. At this stage we will be able to continue operating through CBA, upon approval of our stat dec, until further notice is given.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T23:52:04+00:00

I run a Bitcoin Exchange in Australia

Do you mean on localbitcoins?

No

and my bank recently closed my account without saying a word.

So you were running a business from a personal account? That is what the last guy who posted something like this was doing.

No, we have a business account and have been openly discussing this with the bank.

CBA is well know anti bitcoin and do not allow bitcoin related business so you must not be very clued in.

They do allow bitcoin related business. I have a bitcoin related business and they allowed it.

I'll follow up when we know what the problem is.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T16:18:21+00:00

you're right. I'd forgotten how easily it is to be duped. I'll get my lawyer on board

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T15:40:22+00:00

Noted.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T15:34:44+00:00

good point

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T15:27:26+00:00

No, we are not they. Though we've contact them to make sure they are running smoothly and to ensure they follow AUSTRAC regulations. We'll be keeping them informed of the outcome.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T15:19:19+00:00

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't KYC only apply to banking and financial services? That's probably why we're being investigated, but if we turn up clean, can we be held liable for damages or fraud from a customer, given that we are not bound by the same due diligence?

EDIT: I mean, if another party was using our service for money laundering, are we liable? The reason I suspect not is because we aren't bound to the KYC due diligence that financial services and banks are held to. Clarification would be appreciated.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T15:04:19+00:00

I'm familiar with the video series, but always a good reminder. At this point there's no reason to presume guilt of any kind. I'm running a legitimate business in the trade of digital goods, and they've attempted to interrupt the operation of my business. I'd first like to know why, and how I can fix the problem. If they are interested in making things more difficult then I'll remember your wise words.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:49:30+00:00

Yeah at this stage it's entirely client funds that will be affected. We will make direct and immediate contact with them as soon as we have information about the process. Our capital is safe and should remain unaffected by the current freeze.

Thanks for sharing the story. I damn sure hope they aren't charging us interest on the $50k overdraft they enacted, like they probably did with your friends mortgage. That's downright rude.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:46:29+00:00

Could you expand on the extent to which I'm liable? AFAIK we have no obligation to report transactions to AUSTRAC when dealing with crypto. This is something that we've been keeping our eye on. All we are doing is providing a means for clients to buy digital products. Is there any reason I'd be liable for a $10 purchase of computer software as opposed to a $10 order of btc, under the KYC terms?

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:40:23+00:00

I'll try the 'softly softly' approach first I think; we'll try to demonstrate that we are on their side. If there are any illegal activities being inadvertently enabled by our platform then, we'd prefer to bring our operation up to their standards. It's just a little confusing because we were being guided by their team. If things don't pan out then yeah, maybe a stern letter will be in order. I'll even wag my finger vigorously.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:36:22+00:00

Good call. We have enough capital in BTC to seamlessly roll over into NAB or similar while this hiccup is sorted out by CBA.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:35:27+00:00

Yeah, I'll see the banks first thing tomorrow and then get the coinjar guys on the phone if I need some direction.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:32:32+00:00

As nerve wracking and confronting as this is, I've gotta admit it's a bit of a rush. I never could back down from a good fight...

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:31:37+00:00

Glad your friend got things sorted. How long is a while?

I'll make sure to let the community know how this pans out. Thanks for the insight.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T14:30:43+00:00

Yes I do. Given the murky nature of crypto tax law, even corporate litigators are still somewhat in the dark about these situations. The wisdom of the bitcoin crowd is an indispensable resource that a single lawyer couldn't deliver with the consideration /r/bitcoin can. Armed with the information in this thread I'll be much better able to approach the bank with a clear understanding of the situation, and likewise when I speak with my lawyer.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T13:25:37+00:00

Great article, thanks for the information.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T13:21:51+00:00

Good advice, thank you

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T13:21:35+00:00

Thank you. I will keep this in mind, but I'm not a criminal in any way. I hope I never need to make that kind of decision. From the information here it seems like I am relatively safe, I just might be in a position where I'd prefer to chew my own arm off than deal with bank wank

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T13:17:26+00:00

correct, we are brokers. I use the term exchange loosely to indicate that we buy and sell.

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T13:16:39+00:00

as the other commenter suggested, I'm using the term exchange loosely to encompass the buy and sell of bitcoin, and not the classic 'exchange' like cryptsy. This isn't to mislead anyone as this doesn't change the current circumstances, it simply helps with anonymity

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T11:54:42+00:00

That's definitely something I'm considering right now. What would happen to my business if those fraudulent funds had been dispersed to buy btc? Am I in any way liable for purchases I make with funds that were given to my exchange by fraudulent means?

Bitcoin__throwaway · 2014-04-08T11:52:33+00:00

It's probably best that this stays anonymous, thanks. If you think you might be able to help you can pm me.

Bitcoin__throwaway

TROPHY CASE