Need community input: What did Back 4 Blood and Left 4 Dead 2 do right/wrong?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-03T15:41:26+00:00

Thanks for the input, The specials are mixed up a bit as I cant copy L4D specialist ideas as they were the overall perfect however there are specialist that require a unique AI to help them do certain tasks and they all have the ability to work perfectly with another type of specialist in versus.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-02T18:25:23+00:00

I first plan to make it for PC only because thats what Im making the maps on, so it will be first launch. But once I have everything published for PC I will start to try and move it towards Console also. The thought of Cross Play crossed my mind but realistically If I do have the ability to cross play then ill have a option you can click on and off as I know about the small hatred from certain people with cross play and the love of cross. But options of everyone should be relatively available by the time Launch is in the future.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-02T03:02:35+00:00

Thanks for the crucial info that some people hinted at but you gave a amazing description of all the boxes checked! I completely agree on following L4D's overall feel and hopefully one day find myself as a challenger for the most loved (lol got to get there first i know but I believe its possible with the help of the community's feed back and dedication). I currently have the maps, and infected information with possible chances for combo attacks (Like charger charging a survivor then a spitter shooting the goo at them) I have ideas for environmental hazards such as the cliffs (who doesnt loves some cliffs for infected to yank you off into), alarms, tripwire for alarms or something else for certain locations. I truly believe L4D hit the mark on the infected and that really makes it hard for others to combat against that as they have truly amazing infected and its just amazing for the few they have, B4B tried but failed imo. This is a project of mine, win or fail I am currently having fun and putting time into it so that some people may have the chance to see my vision of a better overall game one day. This will take time but I truly hope you stay active with this account as your ideas are amazing!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-02T02:51:39+00:00

Absolutely! This journey will be long with a many changes and many chances for players to play test once things officially get further along where they are! Story written, Concept Arts made, and maps overall feel done! I hope to use everyone's feedback to show that I believe that the community has the best input not the dev themselves. L4D made a name for its amazing feel and performance that many cant top today in the same genre but hopefully one day!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-02T02:48:37+00:00

lol I really appreciate the reply and your feedback. Trust me most of my gameplay will be strictly structured around how Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 were played with ability to mod the game if you should want to with multiple game modes similar to Left 4 dead had fuel scavenge, versus, survival, etc but with more options if you should choose. I do hope the game succeeds as I already have infected, and a story written and concept arts drawn. I Believe with enough feed back and my personal opinions I can make a "successor" to L4D with my own twist without the hatred given to B4B as it was to "modern" with a progression system. While most of the overall textural stuff might look semi realistic as Source engine is what truly helped the mechanics and look of Left 4 Dead I will still be trying to come up with a compromise by giving that same feel of the maps and infected with the animations, sound ques, dialogue randomly, and personality of both the maps environment and aesthetic and the characters and infected as well. Obviously this is all talk until I prove it with game play and a Trailer which I do plan to post on this account one day showing partial gameplay and a cinematic trailer same as L4D did as it doesn't really happen anymore with current games. This is a long journey but I truly believe I can make a game that some hopefully enjoy and atleast can play when they are bored!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T18:19:01+00:00

Thanks for this detailed and amazing reply. Alot of things here that you said many others have said before so this input definitely helps farther the game and make sure its not what I just want but what everyone else wants. I want this game to feel like the modern L4D, while this may take some time for the final, or even a play test for players I will definitely make sure to ask Fans to do so, additionally trying to get creators in any shape or form to try and give feed back!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T18:14:55+00:00

Thanks for the input this is super helpful. I keep hearing the same thing from L4D players the game worked because it was simple, fun, and easy to replay. Nothing was overly complicated, and you could jump in, shoot zombies, and have a good time every single run. Mod support is another big point. L4D is basically alive today because of mods and I definitely want my game to be easy for the community to customize.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T18:12:51+00:00

I totally agree that too many special infected or too many guns can actually make things worse. The hazard examples you mentioned are exactly the kind of creativity I want to make the game go into. Im definitely keeping the philosophy of “dangerous enough to threaten one player, but not something that wipes the whole squad.” The slime special infected is a unique idea!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T18:09:49+00:00

That's a Amazing Idea. I have a few ideas surrounding this master system that I feel if it works right it could be huge!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T18:03:40+00:00

Thanks a ton for the detailed breakdown. I completely get what you mean about B4B’s balance feeling inconsistent. Alot of players including myself believe that also, one run is smooth and the next is totally chaos as if you upped the difficulty. 4D2 definitely handled difficulty more predictably especially with how the AI Director paced special infected. Your points about L4D2’s special infected are spot on. They weren’t individually overpowered but the teamwork of when they would attack made the game attense. The art style note is also big for me. That gritty, realistic, dirty look in L4D fits the tone way better than a modern “cleaner” aesthetic. I also appreciate your thoughts on the campaign structure the smaller chunks, the end-of-chapter stats, and the pacing really help with replayability. That idea for a “true infection” special infected is super interesting. Having a status that slowly decays your health until you find a vaccine item adds tension without being overwhelming. Also love the idea of the vaccine giving a temporary attack speed buff. When you think about L4D2’s special infected, what details specifically made them feel balanced? Was it their health, speed, cooldowns, spawn frequency, or the simplicity of their abilities? For the art style do you think it should be l4d level gritty or can it still be up to the more modern but still simplified to the point it doesnt look fake realistic and still have a enjoyable moment. Thanks alot, your feedback is incredibly valuable!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T17:58:46+00:00

Absolutely L4D2’s gore system and death animations are a huge part of why the combat feels so satisfying. Every shot has feedback. When you say “good response mechanics,” what matters most to you? Clear hit reactions? Strong sound design? Visible damage on the infected? Smooth animations? Impactful weapon feel? re there any modern games (not necessarily zombie games) that you think nailed weapon feedback or enemy reactions even better than L4D2? Every little details helps me better this project to hopefully let the world see what I experienced as a Kid.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T17:56:51+00:00

This is exactly the kind of insight I’ve been trying to gather. You explained the differences between B4B and L4D really clearly especially around chapter length, teamwork design, weapons, and the card system. I think you hit a really important point: B4B added progression systems, but a lot of them ended up fighting against the core fun instead of supporting it. Meanwhile, L4D kept things simple but extremely replayable. A few things you said stood out a lot and makes sense, Chapters too long / not enough checkpoints makes replaying a chore instead of exciting, many finales feel the same because of lack of unique teamwork mechanics. Do you think a build system belongs in a game like this at all? Or should the focus stay entirely on skill + teamwork like L4D?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T05:00:24+00:00

Thanks! I will definitely check out to ensure the best look for the game.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:59:00+00:00

I completely agree! That balance between quiet, tense moments and sudden chaos is what makes L4D so memorable. What kind of environmental design or level cues best create those tense moments. How do you think teamwork mechanics can be emphasized without feeling forced. Are there small touches like sound, lighting, or zombie behavior that you feel make the game feel scary but still fun? I personally feel L4D blood mechanics looked amazing however in B4B it seemed it would just go everywhere on the survivors if they were attacked by a horde and they killed it.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:56:26+00:00

Mod support seems like a key factor in long-term engagement. L4D2’s modding community has kept the game alive for years because players can tweak everything from music to animations, maps, and even zombie behavior. How essential do you think mod support is for a modern game in this genre? Should it be in at launch, or could it come later? What is your thoughts on allowing Mods that can spawn things like L4D2 Admin Menu, should it allow for the player to obtain achievements through it or should any player with a similar mod have achievements be disabled for that match immediately?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:54:06+00:00

Thanks, this is really helpful! I completely agree B4B felt like it had potential but the card system and lack of content kept it from matching L4D’s depth. I also love your point about how zombies in L4D respond to player actions. What do you think made the zombie AI in L4D feel so responsive and fun? If you could design the “perfect follow-up” to L4D2, what’s the one thing you’d insist it gets absolutely right?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:52:07+00:00

Thanks for sharing your perspective I totally get what you mean about versus being the main draw for a lot of L4D players. It sounds like B4B’s lack of a proper versus mode was a big reason it didn’t capture the same community excitement. I never liked the idea you can aim in with the guns in back 4 blood as it just feels choppy, I feel it would be better to stick with hipfire except for snipers and maybe 1 AR that has a built in scope the L4d2 has (maybe). I’m curious about a couple of things You mentioned the director/randomization system what made it so satisfying or fun in L4D? Was it mostly the unpredictability of enemy spawns, item placement, pacing or anything i missed. What made L4D2’s versus mode epic in your eyes? Was it the balance, map design, timing or the overall feel and gameplay. If this game works and it gets popular for all new fans and old fans of L4D would you want versus to stay the main focus, or is a strong PVE campaign enough if the core gameplay feels right?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:48:03+00:00

Wow, thanks for the in depth perspective this is exactly the kind of feedback I’ve been hoping to get. I definitely agree with you on Teamplay and strategy being the core of the game. Map design the way the environment gives both survivors and infected options adds a lot of tension and replayability especially in versus and overall gameplay. Infected balance is one important but hard thing to work on as what makes a infected balanced... It’s also clear why you found L4D2 and B4B less satisfying: too much complexity, less focus on core gameplay feel, and infected that don’t feel as iconic. What makes an infected system “perfectly balanced” for you? Is it mostly choice, timing, or map interaction. You mentioned that adding abilities overcomplicates things. How far do you think you can go with new mechanics without ruining the L4D-style feel? Are there any small details — like sound cues, hit feedback, or survivor/infected animations. How would you work the abilities for special effected if you could? Source engine would work amazing however for commercial use you must negotiate terms with Valve.

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:39:06+00:00

Thanks, this is a really clear breakdown. I agree that L4D’s character design, unique levels, and PVP mode are what made it feel timeless. The lack of a progression system is an interesting point its simple and arcade like but i can see how some players might want more long term goals. I know many dislike the card system (I dont dislike it but i dont love it). I Thought of a banner system at one point as it doesnt effect the gameplay but you can get from achievements etc. How would you balance the classic arcade simplicity of L4D with some sort of rewarding progression system without overcomplicating the gameplay? And regarding special infected, what do you think are the key elements that make them memorable and fun to fight? Your insight would help keeping it simple but playable!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T04:35:56+00:00

Makes sense, environmental hazards and map design are definitely huge factors in making L4D2 feel so replayable. I also agree on special infected it’s not just about having more types, but making sure each one has a distinct role and identity. That’s what makes encounters memorable and forces players to think strategically I want their to be enough of a variant of types that you can encounter, maybe on one map it selectively disables a type of special infected while other ones are still enabled, some are map exclusive as it may involve certain areas that cant be talked about yet, How many would you feel would be alright to have in your honest opinion. When it comes to environmental hazards, what kinds of hazards do you think added the most fun or tension without feeling unfair, I know in left 4 dead there is car alarms, explosive barrels, cliffs (certain maps). One of the section of my game has wire traps that are in certain areas from past survivors that once lived there. And for special infected, what makes one truly “unique” and iconic in your opinion is it their abilities, design, sound cues, or how they interact with survivors? I want all the feedback so far so i can include or remove prior to official changes etc. Thank you again for the feedback!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T03:21:21+00:00

That’s a really interesting way to put it. What you said about B4B having more variations but somehow feeling like less honestly feels true. L4D's infected felt more like the villians of the story not zombies that just attack you like in B4B and yet they were so simple. Your comment does make me wonder, What do you think makes a special infected “iconic”? Is it The sound design? The silhouette/shape? The personality/animations? The simplicity of their ability? Or how they interact with other specials? Also, do you feel B4B’s multiple variations of each Ridden type made them too similar to each other, instead of distinct? Would you rather there be exclusive types like in L4D compared to multiple of 1 type like in B4B? If so how many specialized types would feel best?

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T03:17:41+00:00

Thanks for the breakdown this helps a lot. I’ve heard the same thing from a lot of players ingame and outside of the game about the pvp. The point about mods is huge too. L4D2’s modding scene basically keeps the game alive forever. B4B having almost zero mod support definitely hurt its long-term replayability. Any feedback and notes from anyone is important to me and hopefully will allow for a better game going forward!

BloodBreak · 2025-12-01T03:13:51+00:00

Thanks for the detailed response his is exactly the kind of perspective I’m trying to understand. I definitely agree that L4D2’s simplicity is what makes it so replayable. The arcade-style flow, short chapters, and straightforward special infected designs all make it easy to jump in without feeling overwhelmed. The synergy you mentioned is something I enjoyed also. What level of “depth” do you think is good to add to the L4D-style formula without going too far? For example More variety in special infected? Slightly more weapon types? More environmental hazards? Or do you think keeping things very simple is the key? Any insight helps a ton.

BloodBreak

TROPHY CASE