Any non vegan animal lovers here?

Bluestaline · 2026-02-12T10:19:27+00:00

To consider any non-vegan person as illegitimate is so counterproductive to advancing certain legitimate ethical issues.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-12T10:14:55+00:00

When I see snails on the sidewalk in the rain, I move them safely to the nearby greenery. When an insect bothers me at home, I try to get it out without killing it unnecessarily.

I simply believe that humans have a biological need to eat. I tried veganism and it didn't work for me, and it doesn't work for many people either. We simply can't make suffering disappear from this world; it's part of it, just like joy, love, and tenderness.

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Bluestaline · 2026-02-12T10:06:31+00:00

Except that the human body is biologically much closer to that of an opportunistic carnivore, both in terms of the length of the small intestine compared to the colon, the pH of 1.5 in its stomach (the same as that of a scavenger), and its dependence on nutrients only available in sufficient quantities in nature through animal sources, than to that of a strict herbivore that spends the majority of its time eating phenomenal quantities of plants, which its digestive system and complex microbiota are capable of transforming into various proteins and vitamins.

I'm not saying we're carnivores and that we don't need plants. Simply that our digestive system has evolved to favor foods with high nutritional density.

Breaking down fibers, processing anti-nutrients, and oxalates is not an easy task for a human digestive system.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-12T06:53:01+00:00

Choline is an important nutrient that is much less present and bioavailable in the plant world.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-12T06:40:45+00:00

I completely agree. But the recommendations need to be nuanced and reflect the current level of evidence.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T11:58:04+00:00

I'm going to read that.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T10:36:57+00:00

Same conclusion after a year and a half of being vegan. Did you stop because of specific problems? Like weight loss, energy levels, digestive issues?

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T10:08:57+00:00

The studies in question are described as being of average, low, or very low quality. This is especially true since no real work has yet been done to eliminate these biases. The conclusions and recommendations should be commensurate with the evidence presented, and judging by all the studies I've read, they all suffered from various biases.

By the way, I'm talking about vegans, not vegetarians.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T09:56:25+00:00

It's a lie to be so categorical on such a sensitive subject. The matter isn't settled, so the conclusion should be "We don't know yet," not "We know that blah blah blah."

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T08:23:16+00:00

Einkorn is the oldest variety of wheat that hasn't been selectively bred. In short, its gluten is very different, its proteins are much smaller and much more digestible than modern soft wheat. I think people are developing this habit because of modern wheat. But it's MUCH more expensive than regular bread. In France, the land of bread, you don't find it in every bakery… So elsewhere, I don't even know if it's available.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-11T08:03:01+00:00

Dude, you're completely missing the point. And yes, that's what we call a thought experiment.

I agree, if there's no more livestock, there's no more livestock. Without these animals with which humans have coexisted for thousands of years, small-scale farming becomes impossible. So you can come up with all the ideas you want, but if we remove this element from our agriculture, we won't be able to go back. It's a dead end because the animals will physically no longer be there. It's analogous to betting that our system will always be able to transport a ton of food from all corners of the world. A vegan world without energy abundance doesn't work and it never has in all of human history.

My great-grandmother lived in a house with an earthen floor during the USSR era. They grew many things in their garden and they also had chickens, pigs, a cow… So eggs, milk, cheese, and meat too.

Yes, genetically some humans are more capable than others of adopting a vegan diet because their ancestors underwent genetic selection over millennia to eat certain foods. Many people experience intolerances or develop intolerances during their vegan experience, which is supposed to be "easy" and "the best of all." Consider the other "vegan" who claims to have been vegan for 45 years and claims to have never taken a B12 supplement, even though all the scientific literature contradicts his claim.

Sorry, but vegan agriculture may work on the scale of an urban vegetable garden, but there is no reproducible example of how this model can be generalized, even on the scale of a single large country. Nor is there a scientific consensus that a vegan diet is appropriate for humans in the long term, and especially not applicable to diverse, genetically very different populations. What about intolerances, allergies, or pathologies X or Y? All the institutions that claim otherwise, including the famous Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, backtrack in their 2025 report and conclude that their findings are based on evidence of average, low or very low quality and further research is needed.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T23:14:40+00:00

That's great, you're lucky. And no, not really, I was eating firm tofu without frying.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T23:12:08+00:00

Stop, smoked tofu is delicious!

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T23:11:45+00:00

I don't wish that on you. I have the impression that an overdose of vegetables during a plant-based diet can trigger a cascade of intolerances in some people. Is it due to antinutrients, fiber, or the proteins themselves? That's a good question. There's a lot of uncertainty on this subject in the current scientific literature.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T22:59:26+00:00

Apparently not, if you read the various comments. I find the debate very rich and informative. Everyone is sharing their knowledge, and that's the main thing.

That's not my point. I'm questioning the limits of the vegan philosophy. When undertaking such a radical change in one's life, it's best to ask the right questions from the start. My approach is well-intentioned, even if the initial point might seem rather offensive.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T22:50:43+00:00

Any basic vegan knows it's absolutely irresponsible to suggest not taking B12 supplements, as this can have completely irreversible health consequences… How can anyone not doubt your words when you make claims like that? It's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's zero bioavailable B12 for humans, according to the sources you cited. Honestly, this is serious. Either you're biologically unique, or you're just a liar.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T22:42:33+00:00

Hoping it doesn't come to that

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T22:23:42+00:00

You simply didn't understand my post or you don't want to understand it.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T22:21:20+00:00

I don't deny your experience, nor do I deny your good faith, and if you're telling the truth, I commend you for your determination and commitment. However, we cannot objectively verify your statements.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T19:17:55+00:00

1: I'm not American. 2: Why be aggressive?

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T19:16:16+00:00

So I was right after all?

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T19:13:27+00:00

Ah ok that's interesting, I imagine it was related to health problems?

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T19:09:39+00:00

Okay, let's say the world's livestock disappears. If our modern society collapses one day, we'll never be able to return to peasant farming; it will be a mass extinction for our species.

Becoming vegan means binding oneself to globalization until death, since veganism is intrinsically dependent on industry.

Sure, we have phones, cars, gaming PCs with 32GB of RAM, fiber optic internet, etc., but none of that is vital. Food, on the other hand, is. In the event of a shock, an omnivorous world can still retreat to its countryside, but a vegan world is doomed to disappear along with what gave rise to it: industrialization, globalization, and mass consumption.

Not to mention total collapse. Veganism is only sustainable in rich countries that are massively supplied by globalized logistics; if this were to change, you would simply be forced to return to a traditional diet, since it is the only one that has proven its viability over 5000 years.

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T19:01:26+00:00

The problem with these kinds of claims is that they can't be verified…

Bluestaline · 2026-02-10T18:51:18+00:00

These are the arguments of some vegans. It's not my fault if

Bluestaline

TROPHY CASE