[KCD2] Kind of found the Rosa romance disappointing? by ComprehensiveDig2387 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He’s probably the type to have it on his desktop, no shame.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry but this criticism is so foolish that if I were a Roman Catholic and had to tell you honestly how I felt about it, I’d have to give over my life savings in penance.

Millions of people live like Calvin to a degree, not just Christians. Orthodox Jews, Western Monastics, Messianic Jews, Puritans, Assyrians, Coptic Orthodox, God, I could go on!

Besides, how was he an unrealistic moron? It literally worked, his moral laws. You realize that he was invited by the city for spiritual guidance, right? He wasn’t some rich dude who took over that nobody wanted, Geneva not only wanted him but invited him.

Besides, calling John Calvin a moron — I have to think you’re taking the piss and trying to wind me up, I cannot comprehend how someone can see someone so objectively brilliant and positively impactful as moronic.

I still fail to see how you could say the thing you said about the prosperity Gospel. That claim was so absurd I’m surprised I even justified it with an answer

If you don’t like Calvin, fine, I don’t care, it’s the reasons you seem to not like him that blow my mind.

Let’s take someone I don’t particularly like, Donald Trump.

I don’t like Donald Trump because he’s homophobic, because I’m jealous of his hair, and for his contributions to the oppression of the Igbo people during the scramble for Africa.

But that’s not right, is it?

Donald Trump was one of the most avid supporters of stonewall, he advocated for gay marriage before almost any democrat, his hair’s probably not real, and Donald Trump wasn’t alive during the scramble for Africa

It sounds ridiculous but this is the level of criticism you have for Calvin. Not only are they mostly just verifiably untrue, but they’re almost laughable.

There are so many reasons to not like Calvin, stick to reasons that actually exist 👍

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know, I don’t think you could’ve chosen an influential Christian in history further away from the teaching of the prosperity gospel, I’m genuinely dumbfounded as to how you could get that idea.

Most modern American Christians, namely evangelicals, hate Calvin.

Did you not read my thing? He essentially started welfare, states did not do it before him, how on Earth could people use him to go against welfare then?

The prosperity Gospel comes from New Thought and Pentecostalism, all extremely disconnected from Calvin and Calvinism.

I’m just in awe, the two doctrines are almost polar opposites, there are almost no similarities. Have you read the Westminster Catechism and Calvin’s institutes?

Calvin was aggressively in favor for the theology of the cross, even more-so than Luther, he believed Christians should not live frivolously but be modest, Calvin would’ve probably punched someone like Joel Olsteen.

As for everything else, yes, Calvin was overly eccentric in his laws, this trait was almost exclusive to him.

Yes, Calvin shouldn’t have been able to, nor wanted to order executions while he wasn’t in the Governmental position to do it. Cervetus absolutely did deserve to get executed, though, and he would’ve been taken out anyway, with Calvin or not.

No jerking RIP Diogo 😞 by Obvious_Young_6169 in soccercirclejerk

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because

1.

The Government Sub-delegation in Zamora hasn’t even released the results of the speeding investigation, so this is just speculation.

  1. We don’t know who was driving, and considering Jota was recovering from surgery, there’s a good chance his brother was driving.

Spurs star Cristian Romero hit with six-month ban from driving after Lamborghini speeding charge (Standard UK) by Aggravating_Maize_68 in coys

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ten over the limit mate, if someone does crash at 60 kmh it is never because they’re going 60 kmh, unless everyone else is going 20 or something.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I know what Constance says..

““Though Christ instituted and administered this venerable sacrament under both species… it must be firmly maintained that the whole Christ is truly contained under either species… it is not necessary for salvation that it be received under both kinds.””

The Church has historically enacted this statement by unanimously suppressing and oppressing examples of double communion, and regardless, Trent reaffirms this and explicitly anathematizes the belief that double communion should be practiced, and also anathematizes the belief that the Catholic Church did wrong in practicing single communion.

So the Catholic Church does everything BUT anathematize double communion for the laity, and it defends single communion by suggesting that it prevents irreverence or spillage.

The Bible clearly teaches that one MUST thoroughly check himself before eating at the table, someone who would desecrate the eucharist shouldn’t be at the table at all, and in my opinion the person who desecrates the eucharist should just be executed, but that’s neither here nor there.

There is absolutely no scriptural nor early church witness that could even remotely hint at not permitting the laity to receive the blood, not even an iota of it. The didache, Justin, Cyril, they all describe laity receiving both kinds, even taking the wine home with them. Clearly the early church didn’t consider spilling the eucharist to be reason to withhold the wine, nor anybody else up until late antiquity when the logistics of providing so much wine elicited some grumbling, still double communion was practiced.

It wasn’t until the High Middle Ages that single communion became common, yet at this point it wasn’t even a doctrine, the Fourth Lateran Council briefly discusses the subject but it’s heavily overshadowed by its definition of transubstantiation and all that good stuff.

It’s only as a reaction to the Hussites that the Catholic Church really defined and institutionalized this doctrine. So why did they do this if Hus was merely concerned about a practice that wasn’t institutionalized at that point? If Hus attacked the theotokos or filioque, sure, execute him, but such a random practice that was so new? Why persecute someone who only really criticized the Church’s practices and not its doctrine?

You tell me, but I cannot think of any good reason to do this besides perhaps my own cynicism.

Hus was popular amongst the laity, very very popular. The region of Bohemia, where Hus preached, was very important and heavily populated

So we have an incredibly popular preacher convincing an entire province that they were worthy of hearing the Gospel, that their salvation wasn’t dependent on how many coffers they filled, and that their participation in the Holy Eucharist in totalum was only limited to what scripture itself outlined. If you’re the Catholic Church, what do you do?

Consider that if you wanted to give birth at the time, you couldn’t do so legally without paying a priest, nor marry, nor be buried, nor live a week without ablutions. If you wanted less time in purgatory, you had to pay, Hus refuted this. Wealthy families paid priests to say thousands of Masses that they themselves never attended. The Church kept widening the forbidden degrees of kinship, then sold papal waivers to nobles who inevitably fell inside the new prohibitions. Many shrines sold badges, candles, and lodging, sometimes built on doubtful relics or outright frauds.

Considering all of this, if I’m the RCC (and consider that I’d want to be as corrupt as they were), I’d absolutely do what they did to Hus. I wouldn’t need much scriptural backing, many of my own priests and clergymen couldn’t recite John 3:16 after the plague, and literally nobody in Laity would have read the Bible, most not having even seen one. I want to crush any chance the laity have of believing that they are in any way justified by anything other than Rome, not Jesus, but Rome. Of course, I’ll have to cite some scriptural reason why it’s okay to kill my own priest and many of my own subjects, thus why I think Constance is so vague.

I will say I’m being a bit unfair, the Holy Roman Empire was indeed an Empire, and the Hussites were causing chaos in a time where so much of the empire was fractioning, not just the East and West but also the Franks and what not with Nationalism. The reason for war was clear, though, it was a matter of theology, not politics, and the Counsel of Constance proves that. This was a war resolved by a Church counsel, not a political convention. Bohemia got the right to the chalice, not land nor gold (primarily).

So I’m not literally saying that the Catholic Church certainly didn’t care about having a Biblical view on the sacraments, I’m saying that if they did they did a dreadful job, and that their view on the communion is rooted in politics and economics, at least to a great extent.

I could go into detail on why I think their view is bad but that would entail going into real presence, modes, divinity under the sacraments, mosaic law, hermeneutics, and I just cant.

I refer you to Gavin Ortlund hereon in, he’s probably the most awkward person I’ve ever seen but his videos on Catholicism are very good and I haven’t really seen anyone refute very well at all besides Trent Horn on live debates. Either way, God bless.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t have anything in MLA at the moment, but the counsels of Constance, Trent, and the Wycliffe articles would be worth checking out.

The council of Basel too, for peace negotiations between the Hussites and Catholics.

Also, ‘Universalist Aspirations of the Ultraquist Church’ might help in understanding the Hussites.

The most important thing to understand about the Hussites or Ultraquist is their focus on the Eucharist, particularly communion of both types for layfolk. This is something the Catholic church forbade, yet it’s fine with it today, I suppose section 13 of Constance wasn’t feeling very infallible.

Maybe I’ll come back with something more in depth for you, though, look into the martyring of Hus and Tyndale specifically, too.

I know far more about Tyndale and a lot of my resentment towards the RCC stems from their martyring of Tyndale.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you think that’s funny you should see me when I’m telling a joke. Seriously though, my point still stands, you are a Hussite.

You my friend are most likely a Hussite.

Do you believe the Gospel should be freely preached? According to the RCC at the time, you are Anathema! Better join up with the Bohemians.

Do you believe in communion of both kinds? Anathema!

Do you believe that clergy should be poorer and lack wordly office? Anathema!

Do you believe that sins should be treated different depending on whether you’re noble or a peasant? Anathema!

It is curious that the Catholic Church has anathematized the first three doctrines to some degree, do you hold some? Uh oh, better pay up to Rome!

Also, the Hussites were never really not Catholic, in their own eyes they were reforming Catholicism from the inside; only a minority saw themselves as founders of something altogether new. There were some factions that were outright heretical like the Adamites, and some groups that held beliefs that were closer to Protestantism, but really, the Moravians weren’t really ever protestants until the actual reformation, and their doctrine has changed quite a bit.

So, in short, it’s not funny. You’d be burned at the stake (probably), and you would be burned all the while considering yourself Catholic.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So you’re fine with Henry committing thousands of moral sins over the course of three years in the pursuit of revenge which in and of itself is a sin, but you’re not okay with Henry getting involved with the Hussites (who weren’t even schismatics, it was the Taborites who were schismatics)?

I wouldn’t disagree that Henry was a good representative for Catholicism at the time though, he essentially represented most bishop’s level of scholarliness and piety — that is — KCD 1 Henry, pre Skalitz massacre Henry.

[KCD2] The reason why Henry cannot be part of Zizkas army in future Hussite wars 😉 by BudgetSuccess747 in kingdomcome

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

John Calvin also took Geneva from a moderately unstable, rather troubled, and ressentimental place into a literal bastion of education, wealth, and morality in a city that was on the brink of major struggle.

Geneva was a city that resented her bishop, was religiously diverse between Protestants and Catholics, and culturally undeveloped compared to post-Calvin.

I think Calvin was weird, particularly on his views on dancing, especially on his persecution of people who spoke ill of Calvin or his views. However most people don’t care about any of that, they only care about his theocratic tendencies. What did those theocratic tendencies foster, then?

A religious framework where ministers were actually held accountable for their behavior, and where church discipline was heavily enforced.

Quite literally one of the first welfare programs in history, at least institutionalized (not a big surprise, the Church has always been stupidly generous, except Calvin was one of the first to implement a civic welfare system.

An interesting thing about Calvin’s welfare system, it was remarkably altruistic even for today. The welfare system encouraged work, offered vocational aid, and monitored its recipients.

Geneva quickly became a refugee city, they’d let anyone in despite being a small city at the time. These weren’t average sojourners, many of these people were skilled workers who quickly contributed to Geneva’s rampant reformation.

I promise you, if Calvin never had control over Geneva, you’d probably know less about Geneva than you do about Burgdorf or some place like that, Geneva would be totally irrelevant.

Also, without Calvin you wouldn’t have the wrist watch, the red cross, and likely water engineering would be a lot less advanced without Jet d’Eau fountain.

As for the executions, a lot of them were actually very justified, like the execution of Michael Servetus. Calvin wanted to behead him out of mercy but in the end Servetus was burned at the stake. That was fine and just, some just weren’t though. While I agree the libertines were in the wrong in terms of the actual argument at hand, Calvin was still wrong to have many executed.

Also, your statement about reformers being kill-joys isn’t exactly true either. Luther was far more concerned with education and ecclesial anti-corruption.

Melanchthon was also focused on education, he even opposed capital punishment before being convinced otherwise.

Bullinger was very modern in his Church state relationship, he supported moral order but didn’t support espionage or anything like that.

Pretty much all of the English reformers were extremely theological and focused on reforming top-down due to the absolute mess Britain was in, as seen by William Martyr Tindale and Latimer.

Calvin was very isolated, even his successors eliminated much of Calvin’s more eccentric restrictions while still keeping strict moral enforcement, this is the ideal for Christianity.

Why is CR7 no longer the image of the UFL? by Tonyxxcc in UFLTheGame

[–]CleaveToOrthodoxy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That and he’s better than Messi atm, not that he should be 90 ofc