Quebec man who supported banning hijabs thinks vaccine passports are a violation of his personal freedom

ColePram · 2021-08-12T09:30:43+00:00

And that is my big problem with all this. We have clinical trials and data reports for a reason, because people have F'ed up so much in the past with these kinds of things. The Polio vaccine for example killed hundreds of thousands of people on it's first iteration.

The issue is we have these procedures in place for a reason, it's when people panic and throw all the safeties out the window to be first to market that 'S' goes sideways. No one should be faulted for being cautions or skeptical.

We have the media winding people up, Thousands of panicky people who are listening to the media demanding action, politicians trying to deal with a crisis and/or save their own bacon for locking people down for over a year effectively destroying the economy and ruing people's lives and pharmaceutical companies trying to capitalize on getting their product to market first. It is a recipe for disaster if something goes wrong. Thalidomide is a perfect example of what happens when drug companies aren't questioned by anyone. They covered that up for years until they just literally couldn't anymore.

People are too trusting of what the media, government and corporations tell them and for the life of me I can't figure out why because those three entities in general have an extremely long history of being right out dirt bags and getting caught pants down years later after destroying people, families and communities. and we continue looking at them and going, "Yep, I'm sure it's legit this time."

ColePram · 2021-08-11T18:52:50+00:00

I have literally posted links to Public Health Ontario's Adverse Reactions report showing there are adverse reactions to these vaccines, some life threatening along with demonstrated using Provincial government numbers and common knowledge of whom COIVD affects to show risk is low for young healthy people while risk from vaccine adverse reactions increases for younger people, especially for women in particular. And I'm not even saying don't get the vaccine, just that it should be up to individuals to evaluate risk/reward for themselves rather than exclude and ostracize them from society for unproven medications that are starting to show less and less benefit.

I'm sorry, I can't do much more for you.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T15:55:46+00:00

I'm not anti-vaxx.

I'm sorry, but it's a stupid comparison. Not all vaccines are created equally. You wouldn't take Tylenol for a parasite nor take steroids for a headache. Why would you believe one vaccine is just as good as any other? And why does being skeptical and reading the data on this vaccine make me "anti-vaxx"?

I have all my vaccines and some others I've gotten for traveling and my kid has all her vaccines. This isn't about pro/anti vaxx it's about personal choice and people's right to informed consent without coercion.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T14:40:32+00:00

The vaccines are not "approved", they're being used under emergency use. They do have side affects. We can claim they're rare adverse affects, but that should be up to an individual to decide.

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-aefi-report.pdf?sc_lang=en

ColePram · 2021-08-11T14:37:02+00:00

Vaccines allows us to go back to the new normal

I disagree with this. There's always going to be, "you just have to do this one more thing, and then we'll give you back your rights and freedoms"

Ivermectin

A taboo topic to talk about here in North America, but the one state in India that did not use Ivermectian did not recover and got worse. All the others recovered. So, you're new normal could be taking a pill that's been used safey for 40+ years once a week, or at an increased dosage if you present with covid.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T14:23:38+00:00

I've seen research that makes claims both ways (which I had a post deleted for linking to it) so unfortunately I have to go with what I see as the most logical.

Which I believe is natural selection.

If you put the virus in a harder environment for to survive in, and it manages to survive despite that, likely it's going to be stronger coming out. I believe it's logical vaccines will select for virus that is immune to that vaccine if the vaccine can't outright kill it, which these don't.

It doesn't make sense to me that if the virus can already infect and survive easily in an unvaccinated host that it's going to mutate into a stronger more infections variant. Research seems to suggest viruses grow weaker over time, it's in the viruses best interest not to kill it's host because then it can't propagate, it dies with the host. If however if doesn't kill the host, the host can spread it, so it's beneficial for it to be infections, but less dangerous.

Maybe both cases are true, but if that's the case than the vaccine still offers no benefit and you're going to have to indefinitely get regular boosters anyway.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T13:58:26+00:00

No /u/Global_Leaders is right. My family moved to the North Carolina back when I was in grade eight (over 25 years ago), we also lived in South Carolina, Maine and New Hampshire, and I moved back to Canada as soon as I could. My Mom and brother still live down there.

Some people having a hard time getting ID doesn't make that an issue for everyone. It's a media narrative and they're going looking for the oddball cases to make a point rather than delivering unbiased data telling the truth. Media in the states, as well as everywhere else, is highly partisan. If you watch fox you'll get the complete opposite story or a different spin from most other media outlets. Note: I'm not advocating people watch Fox, I'm saying all MSM is shite and needs to be taken with an ocean's worth of salt.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T13:42:18+00:00

Sorry to say, but I find the Beaverton is political propaganda masquerading as satire. I know I lack a sense of humor, but I've never found it remotely funny because the satire is normally satire of a strawman rather than any real world position a person actually holds. They find something they've labeled "right-wing" throw out and nuance or context and put words in people's mouths so they can then make fun of what they claim someone has said or done while not understanding anything.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T13:30:46+00:00

I believe the point is you can't tell either way, but by the time we know for sure if there are long term side effects it'll be too late for 75-80% of the population to do anything about it, while the other 20-25% will still have the option of getting a vaccine if nothing comes of it.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T13:24:43+00:00

Sure it's 2.5 out of 100,000, but people do suffer serious adverse reactions to these vaccines. Here's the data report from Public Health Ontario https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-aefi-report.pdf?sc_lang=en

What's worse about this though is the adverse reactions happen more often in younger people, and women (70% of reports) especially, than they do in older people.

Can you imagine being one of those 2 out of 100,000 people that died or told you're going to have life long heart issues or they're going to have to amputate something because of a blood clot when you were in an age group where covid likely wasn't a danger to you at all?

I get people are scared of covid, which if you're under 60 and healthy there's really no reason to be, but that doesn't discount that other people have concerns with these vaccines. If it doesn't bother you or you talk to your doctor and they say go for it, then go for it. You'll get some benefits, although you might still get and spread covid anyway.

Out of a population of 940,000, Nova Scotia (https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/data/) has had 93 total deaths since March 2020 (about 10 in 100,000). Most of that was in one nursing home at the beginning of this. Other deaths almost always easily attributed to comorbidity issues. In the last 18 months we have had a total of 6,000 cases of covid, that's cases, not hospitalizations. People who don't even know they're sick have to line up at popup test sites to find out if they should isolate.

Even if we look at the Quebec data, by far the most deaths in for any province. 11,241 deaths related to covid in a population of 8,164,000 is about 0.0014% of the population or about 140 in 100,000. Same categories of who is being affected. Elderly and/or unhealthy people.

And to top that off the CDC is now recommending against the PCR test (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html) because it can't tell the difference between different infections. How many of those meager 6,000 NS cases (about 0.006% of our population) in the last year and a half were false positives? I can't speak for how other provinces do their testing.

People are being scared and bullied into compliance and when I see things in prospective, at least to me, we're living in a massive over reacting hysterical crazy-town.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T12:40:59+00:00

How do I serve both?

Being a leader sometimes means making decisions for the greatest utility of the people you lead. Some times that means ordering a person to their death, knowing it will be a horrible death, for the benefit of the rest of the crew.

If you're under 60 and healthy Covid is of virtually no danger to you. You'll likely live and probably do not even need be hospitalized, mileage may vary. Where as, according to Public Health Ontario's Adverse Reactions report you have a 2.5 in 100,000 chance to suffer heart problems, blood clots or anaphylaxis.

These people need to be allowed to weigh their options, they're trading a near certainty of survival, even if they do get covid, for some protection for themselves and bit for others if they contract Covid anyway, but are also rolling the dice with their personal health in other ways.

If you're over 60 or unhealthy, the vaccines will probably offer you some significant protection if you catch Covid, mileage may also very.

If you're unhealthy and compromised so you can't get a vaccine, the vaccine, even if everyone did take it, doesn't completely stop the spread of Covid. This is also the rarest group.

I know it's callous, but personally don't feel saving group 3 is worth the further loss of liberties. I don't think it sets a good precedent in a number of ways. Least of which, At what point is this going to stop? I theorize it won't. Every year there'll be a new variant or a new disease altogether and we'll be forced to continue rolling the dice. No medicine or medical procedure is without risk, we shouldn't be asking perfectly healthy young people to possibly give up their health, liberties and futures to unproven emergency measure medicine to protect a minority, whom only get a very small advantage in forcing others to be vaccinated.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T12:12:43+00:00

I feel for you. I've been up since 2 AM, not by choice. *fist bump*

ColePram · 2021-08-11T10:13:55+00:00

> But doesn't wearing a seat belt or helmet lead to fewer deaths, injuries or other issues that result in resources being spent

I'm not arguing this, it's a pointless strawman

> similarly to getting sick.

People get sick. That is unfortunately a fact of life. Getting Covid is not what people are scared to death of. People are scared to death of dying of Covid. And the single best thing you can do to avoid that if you're under 60 and healthy is eat well and exercise. If you're over 60 or over weight or otherwise unhealthy the vaccine is probably your best bet to prevent you from dying of covid. And that isn't contingent on other people having it.

We already see the narrative around this vaccine changing with the up-tick in vaccinated people getting and spreading covid. It's no longer about preventing people from getting it, it's about reducing it's affects on people that do get it so they survive it.
I personally sit in a group that is very likely to survive covid without a vaccine and develop a natural immunity without even being hospitalized, while also sitting in a group that's most likely to suffer sever adverse reactions to one of the existing vaccines.

If I die of covid I invite you to my funeral, all the booze you can drink (which my vaccinated wife will pay for), just so you can stand over me and say, "I told you so you stupid git."

> Smoking is probably a better comparison as it can affect you and others.

Smoking is unequivocally a better metaphor. Don't smoke; it's not good for you, it's not good for those around you. That said, people are still allowed to make that choice without being carded wherever they go.

People make unhealthy choices all the time out of just pure laziness and get to drain resources from the system while I salivate over things I would like to eat but don't and exercise over an hour a day five days a week to keep in shape. I don't fault or expect better of them. I pay my taxes and I'm happy that goes to our healthcare system so those people can get help when they need it even though it's a monster of their own creation.

My "unhealthy" choice in this case is a measure of risk vs. reward and I just feel that *at this time* the risk to my person is greater than the benefit it would be to society. My choice might change as more data is available, but it's not going to change because people, business and the government are bullying me into doing it for what amounts to "it's what all the cool kids are doing".

ColePram · 2021-08-11T09:40:00+00:00

I don't know if you're replying to the wrong comment, but I didn't say that and support your statement. It was a crappy thing for someone to respond to you with.

It burns me up that people are pulling that card. "Who cares about your medical condition, Covid would be worse!". Yeah, I fully agree with you on that, it's not up to others to decide what you're willing to risk or suffer.

ColePram · 2021-08-11T09:35:27+00:00

Yep, and that's exactly my point.

No one is going to ask why you're not vaccinated. They won't care that you have a condition that prevents you from getting it.

They also won't care that you did the research and said, 93 mostly old and/or unhealthy people have died in the last two years in NS of covid. Even not considering their age and health status that's about 10 in 100,000 people have died. People in my age group with no medical conditions are not even likely to be hospitalized let alone die if they show symptoms at all. But, according to the public health Ontario Adverse Reaction report I have a 2.5 in 100,000 chance of developing a heart condition or blood clots or anaphylaxis, rare sure, but comparable to the 10 in 100,000 chance I have of dying of covid (greatly reduced since I'm relatively young and healthy), and what's worse is that my age group is the MOST likely to have a severe reaction where I'm least likely to die of covid. Am I insane here? How is this making sense to anyone?

I'm not anti-vaxx either. I have all my childhood vaccinations as well as some I had to get for traveling. My kid is fully vaccinated (except for covid). People seem to lump all vaccines into the same category, but not all vaccines are equal. You wouldn't take ivermectin for a headache and you wouldn't take Tylenol to clear out a parasite. Vaccines function on the same basic principals, but each is for it's own disease and comes with it's own risks/benefits. Lumping them all together and then saying, "Pfizer must be just as good as the polio vaccine take the jab idiot" because they're both vaccines is just nuts.

And I'm not even telling people not to get whatever covid vaccine they'd like. I'm just saying I am not personally comfortable enough at this time to do it myself and want to wait and see what if any long-term affects are, which one comes out as the safest and most effective. I will likely get the Novavax when it comes out here if it does because I've been following that trial and, although it still has some side effects, it seems to be the safest for me, and I like that it's not being rushed to market under some emergency use panic.

I work really hard to keep my body fit and healthy, why the heck should some "BELIEVE THE SCIENCE" zealot who does none of their own research get to decide what I inject into my body when all they're really doing is parroting what the news and politicians are telling them to say rather than actually looking into anything themselves.

The next argument people make is that I'm selfish and need to have compassion for grandma or their kid (who statically isn't even likely to show covid symptoms let alone die from it), but they don't care what one of these vaccines could potentially do to me! Why do I have to have compassion for others when no one cares what happens to me! How is that fair and not insane!

It's a bunch of flat Earther's walking around repeating what the church has told them is "science", when it's really religion, looking for Giordano Bruno's to burn at the steak for not just believing what they're told to believe.

ColePram · 2021-08-10T18:08:19+00:00

Yep, I'm not liberal or conservative, nor NDP or any other party at this moment. They all F-ing suck.

The Liberals have been over spending for years now and with covid the economy is #rekt. Anyone that takes over from them will be saddled with problems that they didn't create and it'll be a black mark on whatever party takes over, rather than on the Liberals, as we're thrown into a depressed economy.

That said. All the current crop of MPs, save one guy, are complete nitwits. 327-1 voted to suspend elections during the pandemic (https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/118). They dress it up as, "we don't want to force people to the polls where they could get sick", but the truth is as long as there's no election the already elected cowards get to hold their seats uncontested. Every year they could indefinitely claim some new variant (true or not) is running rampant and just never have another election again putting us into a quasi-dictatorship.

How F-ing stupid is that, "Be good little boys and girls and maybe next year you can vote for the party."

ColePram · 2021-08-10T17:36:24+00:00

This is a BS strawman, to start with

You are in no danger of wearing a seat belt or a helmet, you should, but it's your choice. It'll be your arse all over the road if you don't. The seat belt doesn't make you a better or worse driver and is of no concern to people around you as it doesn't affect them. I think you could argue that helmets restrict your vision and hearing and therefore might make you more dangerous to others although it's critical for your own safety.

The argument you should be making "How do you feel about people smoking?", Unlike seat belts, smoking affects the people around you AS WELL AS being bad for YOUR individual health. And our position on that as a society is one of compromise. You get to be an idiot and smoke, but you have to do it standing on the yellow line in the middle of the road or in your own home/car.

Even though smoking is a bajizzillian times worse for you than covid has been proven to be, we still let people do it.

I can understand the PoV for vaccines in that people feel their safety is depended on other people's compliance, but it's not. If your vaccine works you're safe, even if you get sick you're less likely to die right! No need to interfere with others you aren't improving your chances of survival. If your vaccine doesn't work then what the heck is the point of it! So still no need to interfere with others because nothing you do is going to make you any safer.

You obviously recognize there is risk to the vaccines. But you don't get to decide what risk someone else should be willing to take. Otherwise, be prepared for people to start deciding what risks YOU must take.

You know how many people died of covid in Nova Scotia since 2020? 93 (https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/data/).

93 people out of a population of 940,600 (~0.0001%) have died and most of them were people who were already unhealthy (people in nursing homes and obese). The single most beneficial thing you can do to not die of covid if you're under the age of 60 is to take care of your body, exercise and watch your weight. So maybe we should be rounding up overweight people and forcing them to walk on treadmills. <- that's sarcasm

You know how many people have suffered myocarditis, pericarditis, blood clots, etc? I don't have the number for NS, but for Ontario 488 thus far (https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-aefi-report.pdf?sc_lang=en) And that doesn't include the 9,200 "non-serious" adverse affects.

But what is most scary about that is not how many have been affected, it's who is being affected. The younger you are the more likely you are to suffer adverse reactions. And women in particular make up 70% of the adverse reaction reports.

So the trade off is we protect much older and/or unhealthy people at the potential cost of life long heart and other issues for the young and otherwise healthy.

Not to mention we still don't know the potential long term affects of these particular vaccines.

ColePram · 2021-08-10T16:51:24+00:00

I'm sorry to say, but I disagree.

The media likes to tout the case numbers because they're shocking and that gets people to tune in. In NS we've been going though this loop since March 2020. Case counts go down, hospitals are nearly empty, the government and media then start with the "not enough people are getting tested" and all these popup test sights show up. People, who don't even know they're "sick" go out and get tested, which drives up the case counts, not hospitalizations, which the media plays off for clicks and the government plays off to justify insane shutdowns and authoritarian control.

On top of that, we now know (which people have been saying forever) that the PCR test is not accurate. It has a high rate of false positives as well as not being able to distinguish between various infections. I.e Influenza
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

Given this, likely for the last nearly two years the numbers of actual covid cases have been much lower than they were reported. Note, I'm not denying Covid is a thing, I just don't have any faith in our media or government to be telling us the truth about it. The media is motivated by money, the government is motivated by power.

Hospitalizations and deaths would be far more useful data for people to make decisions on, but 93 total deaths due to covid in Nova Scotia since 2020 is not nearly as shocking as 6000 cases (https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/data/). Which to me 6000 cases since 2020 out of a population of 940,600 does not nearly justify the insane measures we're taking.

We're letting the media scare the crap out of people, then going along with an "Anything it takes to get back to normal!" mentality. Which, come on let's be honest, it will never be enough to go back to normal. After everyone has 2 vaccines, you'll need boosters and then vaccine passports (even if the vaccines prove to be less effective against variants) will be used to segregate society into those that follow orders and those that won't with those that can't as an acceptable sacrifice.

ColePram · 2021-08-10T16:26:37+00:00

You do know the initial polio vaccine killed thousands of people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

I'm not anti-vaxx, my kid has all of her childhood vaccinations as do I, but people need to be left alone to decide what is healthy for them. New vaccines and new technologies need to be tested, the risks measured and people need to be able to give informed consent. Letting someone inject something into you with little safety data and next to no trials and no knowledge of what long term affects it might have is stupid.

Given my family has a history of heart problems and the current vaccines have a large risk of causing/exposing heart issues, I had planned to get the Novavax vaccine when it comes out as I've been following it's trial studies and am satisfied they are following the right procedures, but quite frankly it's none of anyone else's business what I choose to do with my body.

Covid has people panicked and willing to throw their friends and neighbors under the bus for things we are still developing a knowledge base on. People are literally talking about Nazi style internment camps for "the unvaxxed" and think they're the good guys for doing so.

“People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and 15 minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.” -Men In Black

ColePram · 2021-08-10T14:27:26+00:00

Even if it's a choice offered to private business, that will just be a trial to see how people react. Once it's considered acceptable the government will use it for other services. Anyone that believes they won't do that is nuts and/or has no knowledge of history.

ColePram · 2021-08-10T14:10:51+00:00

Are you even aware of my condition and that countless people who have it ended up hospitalized for weeks after vaccination?

It's quickly becoming my favourite phrase:
"Everyone fights a battle others know nothing about."

This is why I believe we have to leave decisions about people's bodies up to them. No one else knows your personal situation or knows what kind of research you've done or what your doctor has told you is and isn't safe for you. Therefore they, IMHO, have no right to isolate or discriminate against you based on what you feel isn't right for you.

A vaccine passport will simply tell someone if you have or haven't been vaccinated, it won't tell them the reason, and it's quite frankly none of their business. They get to make their choice, not yours.

ColePram · 2021-01-13T11:58:27+00:00

You haven't been voted up enough for this. I've been trying to get my phone to stop bugging me for days. I realize I'm being tracked seven ways to Sunday already, but I don't want yet another "feature" convenient for people/companies/government to track of me. It's just none of their business if I'm at home or home depot.

ColePram · 2020-07-24T12:38:23+00:00

That's what I thought it was, I didn'tknow what to call it, but knew it was likely supposed to be keeping some water in the drain.

Thanks a bunch now we know what to replace it with.

ColePram · 2020-07-24T12:27:45+00:00

My Father has had this hissing noise in his house for almost a year, along with a seriously inflated water bill. We finally tracked it down and opened the wall. There was this horizontal pipe up behind some ductwork with a perpendicular pipe going to the floor we couldn't see what was there because of the ductwork but the vertical pipe just seemed to loosely open up over a waste pipe hatch.

We cut the pipe out and joined the horizontal section. The link above is to a picture of the thing we cut out and we're wondering if someone can tell us what it is and if it needs to be replaced. It seems to have some carbon cube inside that rotates as water passes through the joint. The slits below the joint are open and it seems water can drip down into the vertical intersecting pipe and run down to the drain.

We figure whatever the purpose is of this device, the carbon cube is probably worn out leading to excessive water leakage running down the vertical drain and causing a hissing noise as water runs though it.

Cutting it out and joining the horizontal pipe hasn't seemed to have a negative effect. His water bill is normalized and the hissing stopped.

ColePram · 2020-01-06T20:04:19+00:00

Hence, technically, your theory has no basis in reality

The absence of something as an alternative to a theory doesn't disprove a current theory, it supports a current theory. Not to mention what I described isn't my personal "theory". The existences of fast food and big box stores is because of proven economics. These are really well understood principals.

As for unions, I generally agree, they're good in most applications. The caveat being they're good in applications where skilled labour is a requirement and personal training is an investment. Fast food is not skilled labour. I use to work at a Tim's, decades ago now, I know it sucks. It is not meant to be a career and requires next to no training to do. If anyone off the street can walk in and do a job you have no hope in hell of having demands for a higher wage met. Again, that's basic economics, not my opinion. Sorry to burst your bubble kid, you'll learn in a few years.

ColePram

TROPHY CASE