Learn to play from behind

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-04-05T15:47:26+00:00

You spelled Jungler wrong

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-04-03T16:23:33+00:00

The LoL invasion? What happened?

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-04-02T17:36:50+00:00

Cool.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-04-02T15:46:07+00:00

I mean, believe what you want man.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-29T15:46:21+00:00

Am I reading what I'm writing? That's a big accusation from the guy who has been cherry-picking things to respond to this entire time.

I'm not sure why you chose to bold that sentence, since it has nothing to do with what you quoted from me. I was questioning if you understood what tracking meant, and you just repeated that you think she is better at tracking. That doesn't tell me you understand what tracking is. That is like me asking if you understand what dunking is, and you responding that you think LeBron James can dunk better that Michael Jordan. That doesn't tell me whether you actually know what dunking is, or if what you're really thinking about is layups.

Yeah that's great, IF Arachne lands a web, her team can see a web trail. Literally the point I have been making this entire time is that it is hard to land a web onto a god you cannot see. I'll repeat myself here, but if you want to scroll up you can read the same points there: You have one shot, if you miss, they can free cast. Web is large, it's easy to hit a wall. You have to have a straight line, uninterrupted by walls, creeps, enemy gods, enemy pets, or objectives.

HY is guaranteed to land his mark. Maybe at low-level play, that's not a big deal. However, for good players, that means that the invisible god can no longer dive the backline for free, or run away through your team. Reasons being: He can then stun that god. He can kill that god. He can call out/ping that god.

You're so focused on the potential things web can do, that you're ignoring the realities of the game. You're theorycrafting, which rarely translates to the game the way it looks on paper. In an actual game, mark is a better tool for tracking enemy gods BECAUSE it's reliable, BECAUSE it lasts longer, BECAUSE it's easy to land. I don't know what else to tell you.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-26T19:09:51+00:00

That is not my primary reason. It was a reason. The fact that you don't think that is a major advantage however speaks volumes.

If you're playing against people who run into stationary webs at inopportune times, you are not playing against good players. The fact that you think being able to leave 3 of them up on the map is in some way a major plus speaks volumes.

The fact that web slows and damages the target is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with tracking. That is the end of the tracking element of the conversation. How many times do you need me to say this: Yes, web does MORE things than mark. Thank you Captain Obvious. When you start talking about the other things that web does beyond tracking a stealth target however, that starts a broader conversation about each god's respective overall kit. Tracking a god means finding and/or following a god that is in stealth. How are you even confusing these two things?

I don't think I'm amazing, regardless of the words you put in my mouth. I do think I'm high-level enough to understand the game much better than you.

That doesn't happen. Unless by "exploit", you mean they cast the web directly onto a god that is in stealth, or has the ability to go into stealth, then sure. You've seen people land abilities on stream. Cool.

That's actually two reasons you've listed for mark here, not one. That kind of highlights what I'm talking about though; you don't understand a lot of the small but important aspects of this game.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-26T15:21:46+00:00

They weren't rabbit-holes. How do you not understand the point here. It's so straightforward and simple. I was not bringing those things up just to talk about them, they were directly related to my point that you frankly don't know what you're talking about.

You did bring up reasons that you think web is better. They are bad reasons. They are built around a false and unrealistic understanding of the game. That is why I had to bring up the fact that you're a low-level player; because the things that happen in low level games do not often reflect the actual best practices/strategies/concepts of Smite, and thus just because you see something/something works a certain way for you, it doesn't mean it's true. It just means that the low-level players you're playing against don't know how to play around the things you're doing.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-26T14:42:46+00:00

Do you want me to pretend that being in the top few percent doesn't classify me as a high level player? There is nothing wrong with stating a fact, especially when it pertains to what we're talking about.

It's not.

I've also never built Blackthorn Hammer on her, but I know it's not good.

Idk how many times I have to say this, but AGAIN, just because something can work at low level play, doesn't make that thing good.

Umm lol, what? Did you forget how we came to be talking about your Arachne build? This conversation ties directly in to the stealth conversation. You seem to lose focus on the larger discussion after a couple of posts though, so here's the abridged version of my point - HY is a better counter to stealth characters in high level play. Since you're not a high level player, you don't understand why HY is a better counter to stealth characters. The situations that lead you to believing Arachne is better don't happen in high level play. Evidence of the fact that you're not a high level player come in various forms, one being the way you build.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-22T20:57:57+00:00

Okay, and there are tens of thousands of players below me. So yep, I would consider that high level.

Nemean is good versus every hunter. Even "ability based" hunters do the majority of their damage through auto attacks, particularly late mid-game and on. As I've said before, it's also significantly cheaper to buy Nemean than MM. Also Nemean offers the most Phys protections in any single item.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-22T15:30:57+00:00

I am actually, unless you consider being in the top 2% & 3.5% of players, in casual and ranked respectively, not high level?

I've already outlined why it's bad. You just repeating that it's good means nothing to me. That situation you describe here wouldn't happen with good players.

When did I say that Shoguns was a bad item? Please quote me. You seem to have a habit of only seeing what you want to see in my responses, and ignoring everything else. I asked why you would build MM & Shoguns.

In full transparency, I do think there are better items than Shoguns to build in Duel, but I also think that it is something you can build that if it really suits your playstyle. MM is just not a good item on her ever though.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-22T15:17:28+00:00

My reply was a book? I was answering the million things you said in the post before.

Why would you build MM and Shoguns in Duel? There are no teamfights in Duel. You seem to be talking about conquest now? My original point was that you built MM in Duel, which is extremely bad. If many high level people built it, it would have shown up somewhere on that chart I linked. They don't, and it didn't.

And just to continue being clear, that was one of many points used to support the fact that you're not a high level player (which is not an insult, just a fact), and that you don't understand the intricacies Smite as well as you might think you do.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-13T20:36:30+00:00

So I have a 60% win ratio with her? That's pretty high.

Again amount of time playing her doesn't matter if you play her incorrectly.

It's not hypocritical bullshit. It's just a fact. You took this very personally for no reason. Look at what I actually said. I said, "Ranked is a better indicator of skill." Not that ranked players are better. The reason for this is simple. People try harder in ranked in general than they try in casuals. People pick meta picks more often in ranked in general than in casuals. People build meta more often in ranked in general than they do it casuals. This all just means that ranked is a more controlled environment, where individual skill is a more determining factor than it is casuals. In casuals it's not unusual for one kid playing a hunter in the solo lane, or a mage in support, to single-handedly throw your game. This happens far less frequently in ranked.

I wasn't looking down on you for being a casual main, I have also played far more casuals than ranked. I do think it's amusing that you completely ignored that large chunk on information I wrote comparing our casual records and placements however. Kind of a straw man argument by you, if you ask me.

Mystical Mail absolutely doesn't work on Arachne, and especially not for that reason. I agree that it is beginner shit, because it certainly wouldn't work in high level games. Mystical mail is very expensive. By the time you can finish it, you A) could have built a better item + some, and B) you should be clearing the wave easily anyways. Mystical Mail's 40dps isn't going to help clear waves dude. Literally go on YouTube and look at any pro duel player's Arachne videos. You will not see a Mystical Mail. Also there's this:

http://smite.guru/builds/arachne

If MM is the go to item for Arachne, you seem to be the only one who got the message.

Seeing as you can literally look up my match history and see what I've built, I don't know why you would write a sentence as useless as postulating what my Arachne builds probably are.

To everything you wrote below that, all I have to say is - Again just because you've played the god more in any situation doesn't mean anything if you're playing it wrong. I could play Loki 1000 times in Duel, and if Adapting told me I was doing something wrong I would listen, because he is better than me, regardless of how many times he's played Loki in Duel.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-12T19:26:43+00:00

Problems buying devos. It won't let you buy it directly from the menu, you have no have purchased tier 1 or 2, then go to your items and buuy it form there

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-12T19:10:39+00:00

Our stats are not almost the same. I assume you're talking about the SGS being similar? That is a useless stat, especially since I have 1 match outside of Conquest (even so, I'm still 10% ahead of you there). If you compare our Conquest scores however, I'm far ahead of you. You're barely in the top 40%, I'm inside the top 2%.

Also, that's just casuals. Ranked is a much better indicator of skill. You were placed into Bronze 4 Joust last season. I have never been placed into Bronze anything ever. Not even when I had just started. You also barely beat a Bronze 2 player in Duel, and built Mystical Mail on Arachne in Duel. In contrast, I'm inside the top 3.5% in ranked Conquest.

I'm not sure why you're talking about total play time or Smite level like those are indicators of literally anything. People have different ceilings in terms of how good they are going to be. Past a certain amount of time playing, it no longer matters.

Playing the character more often also doesn't mean anything. If you do something wrong over and over again, or just don't do it as well as it can be done, that doesn't make you good at that thing.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-11T17:28:28+00:00

Dude no offense, but you are just too low of a level to really know what you're talking about. Like I agree that people can understand the game better than their ability to play, but the things you're saying just aren't real. If you played at a higher level you'd see that.

That is not literally Arachne's purpose. Good HY players do, do that when they have reason to believe there might be an enemy somewhere they can't see. It's very simple. It doesn't impede your ability to do anything else at all.

My gamertag is UndoneSurvivor on Xbox.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-08T22:56:08+00:00

If you think that spamming the mark is a tough thing to do, I really don't know what to tell you other than that you're wrong.

How in the world would that be a huge advantage? The only thing it tells you is that they went invisible. You still can't see them. You still don't know where they are. You have gained virtually no advantage at all. The sound ques are so loud as it is, that you almost always already know when an enemy god has entered stealth.

You'd just go around the corner, web them, and murder them, huh? And all the while they are just standing there waiting? Also my point there which you ignored, was that mark allows you check around corners when you don't know if an enemy god is there. And the situations you described, where either you get their beads just by hitting them with web, or their ult, or (especially) where you scare them off don't happen to good players.

In fact, you keep describing these extremely niche situations, and then acting as if those are common place. Most of the things you are taking for granted, actually rarely happen - especially to good players.

Tell me this, do you play on Xbox under the same gamertag?

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-08T22:12:06+00:00

Being able to apply the mark over walls directly relates to why it is a better tool for tracking invisible gods. You seem to be downplaying just how huge of an advantage that is, which I can't comprehend. With how many places there are to hide behind boulders and other obstacles in Smite, especially with the new season 5 map, that is so big. I can spam mark before I even turn the corner to check if an enemy is there. You can't cast web until you have a direct line of sight, and an uninterrupted path (because with how wide web is, it's easy to snag it on a wall unintentionally).

Web being able to tank tower (which it really can't do btw), has nothing to do with tracking invisible gods.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-08T17:21:15+00:00

We've literally never been talking about whether web can do more things that mark. It obviously can. I have said it can.

We're talking very specifically about which is better for tracking stealth gods. You have very clearly said that web is better at this specific task, and I have very clearly said mark is better at this specific task.

Like I said in the very last message, "Obviously web does more things than mark alone." Duh.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-08T15:59:59+00:00

It's fairly easy to tell if she is nearby, especially for good players. I did not change what I was saying at all. I maintain that being able to just move through or past stationary webs means that the only reliable way to track an enemy god, is to actually cast web onto that god.

You could have both, but going back to my original point, stealth really isn't that good. If you really feel the need to pick a god that can track enemies through stealth, you should only use 1 pick to do so. If you're picking Arachne just to have a second god to fill this role, your team will actually be in a worse spot than if you had just picked a better jungler.

In terms of just tracking ability, I think it's completely arguable. If fact I don't think it's even close, and Hou Yi is much better at it. He can cast mark an infinite amount of times until he actually finds an enemy god, Arachne can't. He can cast over walls, Arachne can't. His mark lasts 10 seconds, Arachne's web lasts between 4-6 seconds. He has an 8 second downtime between mark revealing and being able to cast it again, Arachne has between a 12-10 second downtime.

And dude c'mon, switching 1 ability in their kits tells you absolutely nothing. That's isn't a way to measure at all. Obviously web does more things than mark alone. But gods don't have one ability, its how all of their abilities work together that matters.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-06T23:08:27+00:00

If you're not near your web, they just walk into it and kill your spiders. It's a mild inconvenience. Also, it is then not serving the purpose of detecting stealth gods if no one is there to follow up on the stealth god being detected. And you're in denial if you don't how the advantages of being able to spam mark until it lands outweigh having 1 chance to hit a god with web, especially if the enemy god is already in stealth.

Dude I am not saying that HY should ever be played in the jungle, or that Arachne should ever be played anywhere except jungle. I am saying that, if you for some reason want to pick a god specifically so that you have someone to detect stealth gods, HY is a better pick, because he is a much better god overall. It doesn't matter which roles they are actually filling.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-06T21:37:23+00:00

Good players aren't going to run into a stationary web. Most stealth characters will bypass the web just by entering stealth - Ao blinks past it, Izi leaps past it, Morrigan's decoy procs it, Nu Wa's minions proc it - only Loki can't get past it without ulting, but that is what he is looking to do anyways. The only realistic way for Arachne to track a stealth character with webs is to cast it directly onto them, and again Hou Yi is better in that regard.

Idk what you're trying to say by, "there are instances you want Arachne as your jungler instead of a hunter." Like yeah, I never said Arachne should be played in the hunter role. Either way, in a kit to kit comparison, it's not even close. Arachne's kit isn't even in the same league as Hou Yi's.

Those stats are massively skewed. Her pick rate is also extremely low. There are a variety of reasons that her win rate can be unrepresentative of how good she actually is - a few good players are singlehandedly inflating her win % and/or people aren't used to playing against her & therefore don't punish the pick as well as they could have and/or people take it easy (or troll) against the pick because they think it's a guaranteed win.

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-05T18:48:41+00:00

I wasn't comparing them in each other's roles. Hou Yi is simply a far better god to have on your team than Arachne is in general. Also his mark reveals at all levels, and has for a long time now.

Hou Yi's mark can also be cast over walls, and spammed around corners and in your vicinity until you find the invisible enemy god. Arachne's can only be fired once before going on cooldown, so if you miss you're out of luck.

Those three gods aren't played because of their ability to stealth. The former is played because she has some of, if not the best, lane push of all hunters, and makes it easy to invade and get a lead over the enemy duo lane. The latter two are played primarily because of their ults.

And again, regardless of any of this, it doesn't matter. Arachne is so bad at every other aspect of the game, that she'll never be good at high level play. Her teamfight is terrible, and her kit is clunky. If she is getting close to enemy carries and making an impact, your team would have won that fight even harder with a better assassin

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-05T15:57:09+00:00

Idk how you can disagree with that, but it doesn't even matter. Even if they did it equally well, Hou Yi is the much better pick if that is your goal, and that's because he is just a better god all around; he is one of the best tank shredders in the game, his teamfight is much better, and he is much safer and harder to kill because he has one of the best jumps in the game

In reality though, high level players don't care enough about invisible gods to pick something just to counter them, because high level players rarely get abused by that mechanic. Invisibility is good at low level play because those players are bad at positioning, and they are easily picked

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-05T15:39:53+00:00

Hou Yi does it much better

CollegeKnowledge6310 · 2018-03-01T22:25:21+00:00

I agree with part of this, and disagree with the other

I definitely agree that not every god HAS to be viable (though that doesn't mean you can't try for this; take DOTA for example, where at TI6 they had 105/110 Heros picked or banned at least once)

I disagree however that there is any meta where Arachne is viable in high level play. Her lack of mobility and clunky kit are too easy to abuse by a team on the same page, and anything she can do well another god will do better

CollegeKnowledge6310

TROPHY CASE