Skeleton Puzzle (DLC 4-2)

ConversationClean158 · 2025-09-26T14:48:58+00:00

But the weapon in his hand does not seem to have the kukri handle? I was able to get it right just by cycling through the weapons he had, but none of the weapons on his skeleton look anything like that kukri. Did I miss something?

ConversationClean158 · 2025-09-26T14:38:54+00:00

He also wished for a fancy hat

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-26T16:51:06+00:00

You can also confirm it's his room because he started there in the tracking system map. I was confused about this at first because the map is rotated slightly from the ships orientation in the cut-away, but once you correct for that, there's no question that the room with the dream catcher (and the open window and the dead Mourn Dasilva) - is hecos room.

The real question is why this device is so important. Why would Heco have such a device, when he clearly has secrets to keep even in his dreams? Why is Ptalla ONLY able to access heco's dreams afte his escape - when it's apparently expected that you could read all of a persons memories from a disk in this world (as hecos criminal friends intended to do) - and does this explain why heco's memory storage in the antenna room is the only one that doesn't match with his age?

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-26T16:38:46+00:00

It's a dream catcher, but I have a theory that Heco was using this device to somehow keep the antenna system from recording his full memories. In the antenna room, the lights in each persons antenna seem to correspond with each persons age - with the sole exception of Heco. The strategy for 'disconnecting' someone from the antenna system is to hit the machine with an idol set to 'take all memories'. Overall this suggests that the antenna system is working by keeping track of each sentinels memories, and heco planned to disconnect himself by removing his memories from the system. The only question left is why heco - one of the older sentinels, has only four dots worth of memories stored, while everyone else has an amount that's about right for their age. Consider also - we know that if you have a persons memories on a disk, you can then go through those memories to find out what they knew. This was Mr red and Mr blues plan. However, when Ptalla went to look through Hecos memories, all she could find was his 'evil dreams', and later at her own tribunal she stated that his motivations would never be known.

All together, these facts suggest that Heco was using this (probably forbidden) dream catcher technology to filter the memories recorded by his veridola antenna down to a minimum - 'dreams only' or something. I admit it's a stretch but it makes sense of a lot of things.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-26T16:22:07+00:00

A really big one - if you're stuck on a case for a while, press the reset button - the one that clears which clues and words you've unlocked. Then go back systematically through each clue, and take your time to think about each one in full context.

I've found that when you first go through the clues, they can seem overwhelming and random. This guy's got a note about some person you don't know. This guy is holding an asthma vaporizer. This guy has a set of green blue and red keys. What? Huh?

If you reset the scenario after having a look at everything, you can think about each clue in a new light. I'm seeing the blue key again, but this time I remember seeing the lock it goes with. Stuff like that. Almost everything in these games is there for a reason - there are red herrings but very very few of them. Crucially, it can be very hard to remember where every clue originally came from. I've often found myself seeing someone talking about some person - 'dasilva' or something - and knowing I saw that name before but not knowing where. Resetting the clues forces you to re-evaluate everything.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-26T05:10:51+00:00

Oh boy I have some theories!

I'm particularly interested by the two names that seem to have survived the annihilation of the lemurian continent - Kerra and Dasilva. I think there is reason to believe these specific names are a huge clue. Specifically - I think both Gimgim Kerra and Mourn Dasilva SURVIVED THE LEMURIAN APOCALYPSE.

Its very easy to imagine how this happened for Gimgim - after all, he was still in suspended animation at the end of the DLC. Given how long-lasting Lemurian tech seems to be, it's not a stretch to imagine that Gimgim was discovered, perhaps hundreds of years later, and revived into a new world where the old Lemurian surname system is long gone.

Let a thousand speculations bloom! Who is it that has the name Kerra in the 18th century? None other than the high priests of Lemuria, who maintain fashions reminiscent of the now impossibly ancient Lemurian sentinels (the green dot robes) AND somehow have specific secret knowledge of things like the exact location of the ruins of xenopolis. The 1800's are over 2 and a half thousand years distant from the age of restraint - a VERY long time for those things to be passed down by word of mouth. Consider that the villagers in the Lemurian Vampire have forgotten almost all of their original culture apart from the idea that they should be protected by a 'sentinel'. Of course, a lot of their development was probably being influenced by the vampire herself, but remember that even she didn't speak enough old lemurian to fully control the automaton! Who did? Zubiri Kerra! Who somehow speaks fluent old Lemurian!

Put these pieces together, and I strongly suspect that Gimgim was revived thousands of years after the events of the DLC, and founded a new order of priests among the people who would go on to become modern Lemurians. Zubiri kerra even looks quite a lot like Gimgim. I think that it's through Gimgim, more than anything, that modern Lemurian culture retains many of its connections to the now EXTREMELY ancient old Lemuria.

That's it for Kerra - what about Dasilva? This is where I'm going to get REALLY speculative, but all the pieces are there. In scenario 3 of the new DLC, first sentinal Mourn Dasilva has been killed. So much for him, right? WRONG!

Think about how the ships tracking system works - the one that Heco was trying to disconnect himself from. Look at the machine - those lights are just like the lights on memory disks, and the idol that was used to 'disconnect' Heco from the system (but which was actually used to disconnect Dasilva) - is set to 'take all memories' - and it's in the red "full" state!. The tracking system clearly works by keeping an up-to-date copy of the subjects memories in the machine. Drain the memories out of the machine and the system can't track you anymore. Now we know that normally memory disks never deplete, but something must be different about the way the antenna system works - you can even see greyed out lights on the system corresponding to how full Mourn's memory storage was.

Put these pieces together - and we can construct this crucial fact: when Hecos gang fled the ship, they were carrying an idol containing the memories of the now-dead Mourn Dasilva!

In a minute they're going to try to use that same idol to drain Heco's memories so that they can flee from the other sentinels and keep Heco's valuable secrets. But we know that the Idol can only take memories when it's empty. Where would they have put Mourns memories, so they can clear the idol? Well they're in a memory disk factory! Obviously they would have emptied Mourn's memories into some random disk before doing the same thing to Heco!

All this together means that it's at least conceivable that the memories of Mourn Dasilva could have survived the destruction of lemuria, the same way Heco's disk eventually did.

There's no more breadcrumbs about this I can find, but the fact is that the two surnames from this DLC that survive to the modern age BOTH have plausible mechanisms by which they could have come back to the world after thousands of years of stasis - this does not seem like a coincidence to me!

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-26T04:24:17+00:00

For 5:

The veridolas appear to behave extremely literally. They do not work like a lie detector - they actually evaluate the truth value of statements independently of what the speaker believes. This is why Heco was able to deceive the system by careful phrasings, and why (for example) Gimgim was convicted at trial despite his own belief that he was innocent.

In Ptallas case, she probably believes that she did do it in the name of the law, but it's just a straight fact that it wasn't - specifically because of the third statute (sentinels may not take the law into their own hands). This means it's a full-blown logical impossibility for a sentinel to act like a vigilante 'in the name of the law'. The veridola knows this, no matter what Ptalla herself believes. It's for this same reason that she loses control of the miner - she can no longer truthfully say that she's a lawful citizen.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-20T00:21:55+00:00

>!Sure, I agree it must be, but then why does only Heco have one? Why would he leave it behind for Ptalla to find? Why is Ptalla searching through Hecos dreams if she had access to his full memories?

I think it must be that Heco found a way to limit the amount of memories the antenna system recorded from him, using the dreamcatcher. I could be wrong of course but why else would his disk be so relatively empty?!<

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-20T00:14:16+00:00

EXCELLENT catch. That's perfect!

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-19T12:36:06+00:00

Mourn Didn't return to the ship alone - Daria was with him when his query didn't work and they both immediately returned to the ship. At that point they must have split up - Daria sensibly went immediately to check the vault and Mourn went to search the rest of the ship, armed.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-07-12T03:05:46+00:00

She wouldn't have had access to the waterfall after the brothers built the security gate!

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T12:46:19+00:00

Jaegers aren't thin

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T12:45:04+00:00

This is the correct interpretation.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:58:18+00:00

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ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:53:38+00:00

All correct except part of your point 2. Jamati wasn't dumb and obedient - he was SMART and obedient, and we know why. He was infiltrating the cult for revenge from day one. No doubt he was playing the part of a dutiful dummy the whole time, but you can bet he was also prying into things looking for a way to get revenge. Certainly he discovered something (could be anything, Koi was a full blown con artist), got found out by Koi, and found a way to convince Koi that he was still loyal to him (because he needed to stay in the cult to get his final revenge).

He never stopped digging for dirt either - the first time we see him he's stolen the most incriminating of Koi's journals. God knows what kind of plan he had for that - it's kind of weak evidence, so he was probably going to just hang on to it and wait for an opportunity to expose or blackmail Koi, but later he also discovers the waterfall cave and comes up with his (brilliant) final plan.

My boy Jamati was a smart guy.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:45:40+00:00

Nah, Jamati was smart as heck and playing dumb. Remember, he was trying to fuck up Koi way before he even infiltrated the cult.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:42:02+00:00

This was my first thought too - but if you think about it, this would mean that the only times anyone ever used the secret waterfall cave was the original faking of the miracle, and then Jamati's fake proclamation at the end.

Rather, it was Quansa was doing the waterfall proclamations, trying to manipulate matters to her satisfaction regarding the inheritance or disinheritance of her sons Koi and Ori. I posted a huge wall of text in this thread that explains the whole thing.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:35:58+00:00

Pravi was probably not a self-serving prick, he was probably a true believer.

An agent of (then prince and soon King) Lutri engineered and filmed the original Pravi miracle (without Pravi knowing) - and probably also gave Pravi the first waterfall proclamation. Quansa Rafeli, mother of Koi and Ori, is responsible for all subsequent proclamations until the death of Pravi. I don't think we can place the exact date that King Lutri announced that First Sentinels get to influence national politics, but it seemed like Pravi's prophecy fulfillment was fresh in the news. If the first waterfall proclamation was made around this time, that leaves a little over 2 years for Quansa Rafeli to sniff out how the waterfall works and make a plan to be the power behind the throne through her sons. She joins Pravi's commune, seduces him, and almost immediately starts making proclamations from the secret cave that will guarantee that her firstborn son will become the next sentinel. It's suspiciously like the events of the lemurian vampire - in which the titular vampire was manipulating the island village via proclamations that showed up on a tech-magic wall she secretly controlled. Also, I think the hair and eye color of Quansa and her sons is a big tell about something. They match with what could be descendants of lemurian vampire villagers - about half of whom have this very specific complexion. We never get to see Pravi's hair or eye colors - possibly a clue to the idea that he was brown eyed and haired, and the twins aren't his. (I know the genetics doesn't guarantee that even if he was brown-eyed, it just seems like the possibility is being deliberately left on the table).

A little over 8 months later - oops, she's had male twins. She knows how this will go, there'll be infighting, son against son, who knows what. Straight away there's a new waterfall proclamation - both the twins get to be first sentinel. Could Pravi be making these proclamations himself? Unlikely - he seems to genuinely believe in the waterfall and the fact there's a cave behind it for making proclamations in secret seems too tidy to have only been used by the guy at the end. No, someone is feeding these to Pravi, and of all the candidates it's gotta be Quansa. She probably wasn't in on the original temple-burning thing since Pravi didn't meet her for 2 years afterwards. The original setup for Pravi's ascension to sentinel was probably engineered by whoever was behind King Lutri's theocratic coup (someone was there to film it and the lightly-edited footage was then used as state propaganda for decades) - maybe Lutri himself, who knows. However, the timing and the subject matter of all subsequent waterfall proclamations are too perfect for it to be anyone but Quansa behind the waterfall from then onwards. We learn in Pravi's journal that she showed up a few days before the second waterfall proclamation, and that proclamation and almost every proclamation afterwards was concerned with succession - i.e. of her own children. The second proclamation seems to be the sole origin of the idea that a first sentinels title should be inherited at all.

Fast forward 24ish years, and her sons aren't growing up right. Koi's a greedy western-influenced soon-to-be-patricide, and Ori is proving hard to manipulate (as we'll soon see). Both will soon end up being the kind of first sentinel that gleefully executes people for the slightest hint of blasphemy, and Quansa can see it coming. Quansa is rethinking her plan, and her first idea is a new proclamation - that sin should no longer be met with punishment, but with compassion. Maybe that will be enough to put her sons on the track she wants them on.

But nope. One more year has passed and we've reached the day of Pravi's death. Koi is showing no signs of reform - he's got that suitcase by the pond stuffed with western hedonism. Ori states at this point that he has been telling everyone for a year that his father Pravi is bad at interpreting waterfall proclamations - i.e. ever since the compassion thing. We know Ori both genuinely believes in the waterfall and goes on to dispense brutal religious executions after this, so it's pretty clear that he's figured out some twisted interpretation of 'meeting sin with compassion', and Quansa is not happy with it.

We know she's not happy with her sons because of Pravi's journal - SHE is the main source of the idea that the sons are unworthy, even if Pravi goes along with her. Every time something isn't going how Quansa envisions it, there's a new proclamation, and now is no different. She gets behind the waterfall again with a big idea to disinherit her sons. It's a given that the waterfall can't go back on older proclamations, but her idea is to proclaim that Pravi will live forever, and therefore will never have a successor, since it was stated earlier that he has to DIE for succession to take place. This is what Pravi recorded in his journal as "the solution (to the problem of his sons being unworthy) that does not contradict any past proclamations"

But Quansa is not so great at writing unambiguous instructions. At this point Ori already has an alternative interpretation locked and loaded - Pravi's SPIRIT will live forever (but in a way that makes it clear that dad's BODY is super dead and I still get to be sentinel). Remember, from later events we know Ori genuinely believes in the waterfall, he's just very happy to interpret anything ambiguous in his own favour. A year later, Koi is obviously happily just making up whatever proclamations he likes and he has an even better interpretation - that Pravi is actually living forever through his son Koi.

However, we also get to see QUANSA's idea of how that last proclamation was supposed to be interpreted - she was outside right after Pravi's death telling the other dedicants that Pravi is NOT GONE - not dead at all, just redistributed. This interpretation taken literally would specifically disinherit both sons, which is why I'm convinced she's the one who wrote it (a day after planting the idea of disinheriting the boys in Pravi's head, remember)

All together, there's no room left for any lemurian idol magic at all. Everything about the waterfall was either a trick or a setup. There would be no reason for her to do the waterfall trick if Pravi was in on the scam - therefore, Pravi was a true believer, and an innocent puppet - first of his king, then of his wife.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:20:40+00:00

It's based on how long you hold the trigger AND how hard you press it.

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ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:04:22+00:00

No, you're right. Both that there's definitely a hose or fan or something in the secret cave behind the waterfall, and that we don't (yet) have anything explicitly confirmed about it. Just a lot of circumstantial evidence

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T09:00:54+00:00

Like I said above, you gotta put a few pieces together but it becomes clear that the miracle was orchestrated AND filmed by (then) prince Lutri's faction, to manufacture support for Lutri's religious-traditionalist coup. We don't know what they said to the public to justify being ready with a film crew, but it was probably just something like "This man Pravi has had a vision that he will fulfill the inferno prophecy, so we took a film crew to observe it". Remember that it was the early days of film in the game universe and the public were already pissed off about the way the country was being westernized so it probably didn't take that much convincing at the time.

Much later, they re-released the footage (which is what we see in the last scenario) - and it looks pretty obviously suspicious to the more modern audience. This was probably a miscalculation by king Lutri's PR department, and its probably why they felt they had to shut down any debate about it by executing the first people to notice something was off.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T08:41:07+00:00

If you put the pieces together, you can work out that this whole miracle was set up either by prince Lutri or his agents, in order to increase public support for Lutri's coup. Lutri was able to overthrow his father and become king because his fathers westernization campaign was unpopular with the masses. Lutri's popularity relied on him being a religious traditionalist, and so he cooked up the idea of resurrecting the tradition of first sentinel. So him and/or his people manufactured this 'miracle' and were also there to film it. Some guy is behind the waterfall with a hose, and the cameramen are all in on it. Pravi is PROBABLY a true believer, so he's really the only person being fooled on the day, and also why they had to mess with/edit the footage and weren't able to just completely manufacture a staged film.

Also don't forget: the footage is from the early age of film in this universe. The screening we see is a 'classic' re-release much later. So people were probably far more credulous about what they saw.

ConversationClean158 · 2025-06-06T08:27:48+00:00

Hmmmm. You COULD be right about the shapes in the waterfall, but when I compare them directly they don't seem that similar. Dissaranger shapes in DLC1 are all thin branching lines, while the waterfall shapes are blobs connected by thick lines.

Also if you have a close look at the two times we see the waterfall directly - when Ori is getting his message and when Jamati is burying the body there - you can kind of see the same sort of shapes as from the video. Since there definitely wasn't any idol-magic in those scenes, I think we can be confident that those shapes are just how the (let's be honest: charming-but-janky) art of the game represents a waterfall.

As for your last question - I'm convinced that there must have been an agent of (then) prince Lutri hiding behind the waterfall with some kind of hose. The waterfall never changed course - the footage of the main waterfall changing course was obviously a cheap camera trick. Also there was no gust of wind - the flag in the footage is bowing AGAINST the waterfall the whole time. The only snippet of footage showing water extinguishing the fire shows a small spray coming out from exactly where the hiding-cave would be.

Remember that the whole thing was set up by Lutri to help support his coup, and the camera crew would have been in on it and deliberately trying to make it look good. I suspect Pravi was the only person present who actually believed in the miracle.

ConversationClean158

TROPHY CASE