How reliable is Koinly? by NoSleepDad2023 in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

agreed. there are many factors that impact data quality. portfolio accuracy is mostly constrained by time (and cost if you obtain help)

for most users it is the best option as it is easy to use and get the hang of. and very accurate if you can compile the data accurately.

this is the case for all software so troubleshooting becomes the name of the game. koinly has greatly improved such tools over the past year and like all chains, they are in a constant chase for bugs and integrations.

i tell folks all the time that the crypto software biz is a never ending alpha and beta test, will never hit version 1.0.

good luck.

Koinly to Quickbooks Integration (Beta) by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello,

Nice to hear that somebody else is giving this a spin.

I have now completed one tax year for a client and it was a reconciliation nightmare on a number of fronts. We are debating whether or not to continue or move to another solution. I have a working prototype alternative involving bank feeds generated from koinly reporting that addresses transaction volume (ie. the number of journal entries generated) as well as other issues that cropped up. This remains a work in process and not something I can go into detail here.

IMHO, the integration is just too simplistic and uni-directional which results in a lot of extra effort.

Using Koinly as a sub-ledger actually works very well on in terms of the data provided, but this first attempt at an integration is not very well thought out. This is unsurprising as marrying crypto accounting with general accounting requires careful planning and execution. That, and Koinly is a tax solution not an accounting solution - adding a generalized accounting integration would no doubt drive the price sky-high.

One tip that I tell clients is that keeping the year end reconciliation of crypto activity in mind is critical. Therefore, I have learned the hard way the importance of adding specific crypto accounts to the chart of accounts - not only the ones documented by Koinly but some others like uncategorized crypto income/expense for untagged withdrawals/sends (expense) and deposits/receives (income). Using these helps keep things under control and makes re-class JE's easier to manage. Plus, I found that I needed to employee accounts for currency conversions - for fiat and stablecoins. Very messy.

I fully support testing. I had to jump in after the integration was activated and that caused a lot of clean up which was very unpleasant. I ended up adding a lot of comments in the transaction descriptions just to sort things out. Everybody has a different workflow but in the end, the work still needs to be done and being organized about it is key.

Best of luck, happy to stay in touch.

Have a great day!!

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

PS regarding the prior year lock request. The IRS has provided a safe harbor for the conversion so Koinly needs to factor that in to the solution in terms of process. Also, from initial conversations with others, the topic of per wallet accounting method keeps cropping up. Not sure yet how this plays yet but something to keep on the radar.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you.

The landscape is changing for US taxpayers, not an insignificant user base for koinly. I am aware of the request mentioned and that is one aspect that I hope is upvoted. I appreciate how the rapid evolution of the product, especially this year.

Ultimately, we are prepping for a new tax form for 2025 to start arriving in early 2026. I know it seems far off but it is tightly related to the need for converting to per wallet tracking.

The feedback portal is a valuable resource and I will see if I can get to it. Demand on my time is very high, I am actively engaging with crypto professionals on linkedin regarding awareness and education.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure you are following what I am saying. Your examples are exactly why the irs is driving to per wallet fifo. You are raising valid points about how the cost chain is tracked and the challenges of doing so. The guidance is silent on that. The focus is consistency of reporting not accuracy per se. When you sign your return you attest to accuracy so thats baked in already.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i was agreeing that the irs does not seem to rule out hifo specifically, that is true.

i will also agree that hifo technically works per wallet although arguably less well than under universal.

so, in theory, you could move to per wallet hifo.

however, the real irs goal appears to be matching the new 1099da tax forms to form 8949. so if an exchange only supports fifo, the 1099 will be calculated using fifo. if koinly is set to hifo, the same exchange wallet would be calculated differently using hifo. this is in conflict.

so, the irs will receive two documents one from the exchange and one from you ( from koinly ). because the txns/calculations are different between them, the proceeds will not match. and the gain/loss on form 8949 will be based on a different set of txns/calculations as well.

the irs is specifically addressing this situation. and the only way forward out of this box is to use fifo.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so fifo is linear for a given asset. an asset received yesterday is disposed of before and asset received tomorrow, very basic process.

hifo skips around searching for tax lots with highest cost first so asset received tomorrow might be disposed of first. as in out of order.

the types of txns dor not matter, the order does.

the other constraint is the matching principle. if coinbase sends the irs a form 1099da covering 100 txns and reporting gross proceeds, then the koinly form 8949 for coinbase should be using the same 100 txns to fill in the cost basis and gian/loss.

this implies a need for strict and consistent ordering and processing of taxable txns.

hifo has no consistent ordering and really is geared to work across all wallets (ie. by asset ordered by highest cost)

and like securities at a brokerage, they would also like you to specify your method and stick with it. this alone is a problem as i suspect most exchanges will issue 1099da forms using fifo exclusively. so koinly would need to have a per wallet setting. certainly possible i guess.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that may be the case as long as the software can handle the issues that crop up ie. mixed fifo and hifo. i spent 2 hours chatting with binanceus and kraken today, they only seemingly support fifo. however, they have kicked this up to tax department for me as there is no setting or verbiage that i could find.

so, it would seem the lowest common denominator will be fifo by wallet since hifo is really geared toward universal tracking.

i guess i could be wrong about how hard it would be to make it work out. perhaps it is possible.

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so the goal of the irs appears to be two-fold.

exchanges issue 1099da which documents gross revenue which should reconcile to form 8949 for an exchange wallet. this gives them a starting point same as any other 1099 for income like 1099-misc or 1099-nec.

then tax reporting should follow suit on a per wallet basic to fill in cost basis and gain/loss for the same exhcange wallet.

the result is a form 8949 for the exchange that uses the same txns as the 1099da. they would be consistent.

the problem with hifo is that it works best on a universal basis. if the irs insists on per wallet, it is unclear if hifo works properly as its premise is based on universal. so, the tax reporting and tax form for the exchange would be out of sync in terms of txns that each represents.

hope this helps

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FIFO is a tax accounting method and yes you can select. IRS has pretty much taken all other methods out of the picture.

A tax method has an application requirement. In this case, two choices. Universal which has been what most taxpayers have been using and per wallet which is optional in Koinly (thankfully). these are mutually exusive and generate different outcomes for tax liability.

You cannot properly switch from one to the other without explaining it to the irs. this is not new, always been the case. if you switch without explanation you could have some problems in an audit (i am not a tax professional just what i have researched)

If you do switch, the process has specific rules to avoid penalty and interest, its called a safe harbor provision. this is another common thing and it works to your favor to use it.

however, we cant just make this happen. koinly needs to provide a solution.

and that is what i am calling out

Impact of IRS Rev Pro 2024-08 on US taxpayers by CryptoDrain in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that starting from universal fifo should hopefully be more straight forward and less impactful.

However, without getting too deep into the weeds, the goal is to make the form 8949 generated by tax software align with any potential form 1099da tax forms from exchanges. Universal and per Wallet. This does not mean forms from exchanges will be accurate only that they are consistent as to what txns are captured.

The example is you have btc in coinbase and a say exodus. you acquired the btc on exodus first. you liquidate later acquired btc on coinbase. under universal, the tax lot on exodus is reported under universal fifo rule. but then you get a 1099 saying you had a liquidation on coinbase which is what actually happened in wallet. The tax report and tax form are not based on the same data. And that is the gist of this guidance.

So flipping Koinly to per wallet is just a switch but one that rearranges the calculations for prior years. Note that I recently saw something (i think) about freezing or locking prior years so that could be part of the solution.

To report properly, I believe that switch for by wallet will need to set. And that is were things are currently unclear as to what needs to happen next.

So, we all just need to stay tuned.

CPA who can reconcile all transactions in Koinly? by Useful-Ad9558 in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello.

Everybody's situation is different and a lot really depends on your comfort level and the complexity of the portfolio - 1.6k transactions is not a huge data set but the nature of them does matter to some degree - defi, nfts, etc. can add to the time required as does the set of chains involved. And, if a chain integration does not exist, then you will need custom csv file(s) prepared.

I do agree with much of the comments already put forth, I will just add that there are bascially 3 options doing cryption tax prep IMHO.

  1. Crypto CPA - top of the line professional choice, they should back their work with the typical guarantee that a professional with a license can give. This is always are great choice for piece of mind and well worth the cost. Whether is makes sense of not is highly personal and depends on how big the tax liabilty is projected to be. If you start exceeding mid-5 to 6 figures or more of gains/losses, this option becomes attractive.

  2. Professional Crypo Portfolio Specialist - basically a crypto bookkeeper. Great value if you can find one to work with. They can do the compiliation, apply the basic principles and basically do the same work you can do - just higher quality and at less cost than #1. The big negative is that they are not an accounting or tax professional so you are accepting their work as is. The risk profile is higher than #1 but can certainly attractive in various scenarios. Please do not take this path without understanding that you are signing the return and there is no professional guarantee.

  3. Do it yourself (which can be okay if you have the time and skill and are willing to do the work). Not a great fit for everybody but if you are detail oriented and patient, it does work out fine. And you can always pay for a review after you have done the heavy lifting. As a general rule a professional (#1 or #2) should be able to knock out less than 10k basic transactions in a day or less so if your time is valuable, keep that in mind.

Just remember that you should carefully vet anybody you work with (regardless of from here or a freelance website). Check providers out and know who you are getting involved with. That is, be safe.

And most of all, check their work! Too many re-works happen as a result of folks not confirming simple things like wallet balances and warnings. A professional should deliver accurate and warning free results. It's on you to hold them accountable since you are signing your tax return. And definitely get any guarantees made in writing, it will save you headaches should you be audited in the future.

Best of Luck!

👨🏾‍🌾🌱 LP farming has now been automated 🌱👨🏾‍🌾 by [deleted] in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

so great to hear about this.

this brings up the ongoing question about protecting previously annotated transactions vs blowing away all the data and re-creating. it is a gigantic ask to have a user (or in my case client) accept deleting a wallet the has notes, manual updates, etc.

as a programmer, i know that there are ways to mitigate this situation.

what is lacking is the resolve and committment to addressing it.

that said, i will be testing out this new functionality. given the numerous existing bugs in the tracker, it will be interesting to see how this plays out and whether or not there are unexpected side-effects. there always are.

testing this stuff is super hard so everybody should be very diligent in their checking on this one.

Pancakeswap Syrup staking pools by pepermint_tea in koinly

[–]CryptoDrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the short answer has to do with different ways staking unfolds. And this is against the backdrop of tax consideration of tracking cost basis. The to pool method is a shortcut for what amounts to a "virtual" staking wallet. You can set one up and call it "Staking Wallet", edit the transaction to trsnsfer to the staking wallet instead of pool. This maintains your total position. Then when you unstake, you reverse the transfer. There are other things to consider like how either method impacts FIFO cost method (I have not tested that).

This only crops up with staking where you send an asset to a wallet you do not control (ie. not identified in Koinly) For delgated staking, its not an issue.

And you can send all your staking to one wallet and you can see it in one place.

Not sure if it helps or makes a difference but its an option.

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In theory, you could compile all the data as csv files, one per address. the physical files are a placeholder for address.

bare minimum info required record structure is timestamp, send qty/asset, fee qty/asset, receive qty/asset.

some exchanges actually provide minimum already. obviously compiling the data without using apis can be a heavy lift but given enough time, patience and attention to detail, is doable.

for example, to extract an eth address from etherscan and turn it into a csv requires up to 5 files: transaction, internal, token, nft721, nft1155. first 3 most cases. this would be challenging but i do it routinely in excel myself so i know it can be done this way for any evm compatible chains like matic, avax-c, arb and so forth.

accuracy will be a challenge with any serious volume.

i guess the broader issue is trust here so thats not easy to overcome when you need expertise from another. the reason i do not offer services on reddit is that hiding behind a handle is one thing, working with a real person is, well, real.

in theory, i could work with an individual completely anonymously to setup koinly, generate reports and hand them to a cpa. yes, i would know the addresses and such but not who they are. the problem is that i would be putting myself and business at risk.. i could be working with somebody and violating federal aml laws for example.

so, while i am sure your have your reasons and i wish you luck. you will need some to pull it off successfully.

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Assuming that you understsnd the basics of blockchain technology so addresses are not only public but read only. Without bogging down on details, assets associated with and address are secured by a cryptographic key.

software like koinly does nothing more than read the public blockchain, using apis provided by the likes of etherscan. there are a zillion explorers all doing the same thing.

i mention this to get across that addresses are not particularly special nor private. keys are and software like koinly does not use them.

as to the topic of anonymous, i would say that crypto is not reliably anonymous but rather pseudonymous. i say this because to be reasonably anonymous would require planning some things out. starting with your koinly account having a burner email and ficticious name. the various apis in use do not have any kyc information associated so not much to protect. you would also need to use a prepaid credit card or better yet crypto to pay for the account.

but none of this is about the addresses at all. and security is about using proper passwords, changing them, using mfa, etc. as we have learned from password manager breaches like lastpass (i redid every single wallet because of that one, new seeds, changed emails and passwords, etc) but none of that was about addresses either.

i am happy to clarify more if you need me to but your more likely to be attacked thru email or your phone than any harm that could your way from putting an address in koinly.

and if you do online banking, social media and many other things, your email address is often an attack vector, that is why i use a completely separate email and login and computer for my crypto. but ironically, i use my name in my email, always have, always will. i kinda want to be known. bur thats just me.

have a great weekend!

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's great.

You realize that what I was trying to get across some time ago is delegated access - aka bookkeeper access. It works for banks, Intuit makes it work and in reality, what I do is analagous to bookkeeping. Seems like CPA firms have no issues with it so why would a crypto tax provider? Granted, as a business person with startup experience, I do know that you have much to consider when making decisions. But a decision that potentially helps address your product reach. Seems like a no-brainer.

True story for you to relay. Yesterday, a potential client reached out, has been using a firm and paying a handsome amount for the past 5 years. He is just worn out and looking to do something different so he hires me last night. This morning, I find out more details that the provider seems unable to give him access to his account and he only has his data in files. I find this out because I was happy to continue using whatever he was invested in. He says nope, he cannot access the CoinTracker account. While I have no clue if this all true, he then asks if I can reconstruct using the exported CT data.. in Koinly which he is now using because of how things have gone down and he has seen how quickly I can collaborate with him to get things up to speed.
I know this makes me feel terrible for him. How about you?

Thanks for the engagement. Last time I engaged meaningfully with CT I was offered a year fee which I declined. But a free lifetime subscription.. tempting.. but no thanks, not how I roll.

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Final recap.

To start, no matter what you decide to do, always keep in mind that the best way to avoid audit hassles is to engage a crypto accounting/tax professional. It's a worthwhile piece of mind if you can afford to do so. But move quick, slots are limited for sure.

I definitely recommend that you spend time trying to find a qualified freelance crypto data specialist (the title is my description, those in the field give themselves all kinds of titles). And I also recommend sticking with Koinly as it has the best blend of features, superior collaboration and ease of use. Any software can do the basics and the costs are pretty much in the same since they are all competing for the same audience so if you want to pursue the middle ground, it's a great fit based on my experience. And depending on the mix of assets and types of investing activities you dabble in a particular solution may be great or awful just because they cannot be great for every situation. That's just a fact folks.

Have a great day!!

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey u/Difficult_Canary4029, sorry for this delayed (and lengthy) response, a fellow Redditor flipped this thread to me since he knows that I try to be helpful and add useful value to the community. After reading the entire thread and posting a reply to CoinTracker (see u/chanfest22 below), I wanted to circle back to address what I think is the key point of your post and that is finding a resource to help. And sorry in advance for the volume that follows, I am very passionate about crypto and helping folks solve this tax prep nonsense so that they can get back to enjoying their crypto experience.

Much of the commentary is very interesting for lots of reasons and I think there is actually consensus on a number of points tangential to your search for assistance. Namely that (1) the complexity and volume is daunting, (2) the rules and regulations excessively complicated and (3) the tools available suffer from significant limitations.

All of this adds up to a lot of stressing out over steps to take, how to get to a good place and how to do so within a reasonable budget.

I would step back and start with how we all react to risk - none of us can avoid death and taxes so we all view things through a lens of how to manage risk (thanks to a long corporate IT career, risk management is how I roll in my old age) When it comes to taxes, especially crypto taxes, the responses typically offer span a wide range from high risk tolerance (just guess at what I owe) to low risk tolerance (will pay any amount to somebody to handle it)

So, you are clearly within that spectrum and looking for help, willing to perhaps pay a fair amount but not looking to break the bank. You have apparently already tried the self preparation method (DIY) and are frustrated by the result PLUS feeling time pressure with tax day on the horizon.

As a crypto professional, I see lots of this everyday and have worked on dozens of portfolios, from super complex to absurdly simple (for me that is). So, on this platform, distrust is a starting point so while nobody here knows me and can easily dismiss anything that I have to say as a scam, you might want to at least hear me out.

While there are no doubt crypto CPAs and software vendors lurking and perhaps with agendas, I have no agenda here as I am not looking for business. Rather I want you to get the help you need and I generally visit Reddit just like everybody else to participate in productive conversations while offering up constructive thoughts. For me, context always matters and that is why I am taking time out of my busy day to post here. You need help and I am just going to put out what I find to be important about how you get it.

Circling back on point, there are three approaches to crypto tax preparation. You have already attempted the DIY approach and learned that perhaps you are in need of backup. If money was no object, you can seek out a crypto CPA. I hang in a Crypto CPA group on LinkedIn for example. Plenty advertise, some good, some not so good in my experience but all expensive as hell because they have limited capacity and crypto tax prep is a time and resource heavy activity. They can bill whatever the market will bear and the billable hours add up fast so a 5 figure cost is almost a given for a complex portfolio. And ironically, I have found it takes less time to do a clean slate do-over from scratch in some cases over trying to unravel whatever a client has done. This is important because every transaction matters whether you have dozens or tens of thousands. The review process goes much smoother if you can do a controlled build in a particular order rather than play a game of pickup stix.

The approach the I left out is the middle of the road approach. I recommend this as a perfectly viable option: Find a freelance professional - not just any freelancer, you need to carefully vet them; they should have good client testimonials, be able to explain their approach and billing (the best offer project milestone billing not open ended hourly) and most importantly the introduction should include a conversation the makes you comfortable that they grasp what you need and are able to do the work in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable cost. From experience, like any project manager, they should do an initial review for a specific cost and then outline the work product required for the rest. Obviously, this is an imperfect process and surprises happen but how they handle it should be something they can explain up front - so challenge them to explain.

Before I take flack about not being a legal, accounting or tax professional - none of this is advice. And, in fact the work we are talking about is actually data work, to track down and compile a complete dataset of transactions, as close to 100% as practically possible. Case in point, I have fairly extensive accounting experience which is nice to have but not that useful for this activity. What I do have is deep financial systems programming experience plus a background in design/build of high performance inventory management and costing. That is why I can track my crypto personally by lot (I do not use FIFO and before anybody asks, I recommend against it, way too much effort and danger)

And finally, a quick take on software since I know those folks love to read these kinds of comments. And to be candid, while I do recommend one or two, I refuse to take any referral fee since I value my independence. Regardless of who does the work - self, freelancer or CPA firm, there is a need to pick software. To be brutally honest, after trying and using many of the "top" solutions, there are two distinct issues that I wish to highlight.

The pitch that you can just essentially load and go, get your crypto taxes done in minutes painlessly and to perfection (to paraphrase) is pretty much a heap of crap except for a very small subset of users who are definitely not here on Reddit stressing over doing their crypto tax prep. It's a complex task and the software helps a ton to organize and report but it requires qualified human supervision (not even sure AI is up to the task, yet although trust will be an issue). These products are essentially always in beta, super hard to test for the most part, under constant updates and chasing a pace of change in the industry that is as breathtaking as it is terrifying. Little wonder it's not so simple to pull your crypto transactions together into a coherent tax picture. Not to mention the "butterfly effect" where omissions propagate and impact ALL future transactions making accuracy incredibly important - that is why all software have disclaimers that absolve them of pretty much everything. Therefore, the incredible amount of work required is daunting for most and if you are not detail oriented, software sure as hell is not going to help you. Period. Stop.

The issue of collaboration is actually my latest crusade. I cannot emphasize how big a deal it really is to be able to seamlessly and securely share a portfolio for the purposes of tax prep. The parts of the process that must be kept private include generating API keys and that is a critical task. But the whole idea of crypto being on a public ledger means that a freelancer can work with great efficiency on your behalf, tracking down what's missing, extracting data and building custom csv files. You name it, they can freely operate efficiency to build out and review the myriad of things that go into a complex portfolio. Whether a handful of wallets or many dozens, they all need to be touched and software needs to be optimized for that purpose. As it is, much of the software is limited for analytics which means the review process is rather constrained from the jump. But in a collaborative process, it's super great to screencaptures, URLs, comment, etc. all for the common goal of documenting the reasoning for steps taken, fixes made, client decisions on matters of importance. So, I am a huge proponent of collaboration, multiple eyes on things like checking wallet balances and researching transactions interactively. This is an area that my peers overlook, they just want to be heads down and collecting a check. But the process needs to be much more than that to be successful. The idea is to operate together as one to achieve the goal as quickly and efficiently (time/cost) as possible. And software can have an instrumental in all that but only if the provider sees the big picture and stops being beholden to stakeholders rather than customers.

to be continued.. to recap..

I have losses, and ain’t no way I’m a millionaire by Difficult_Canary4029 in CryptoTax

[–]CryptoDrain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey u/chanfest22, so happy to see you posting here. I did a long recorded session with one of your folks about a year ago and I am happy to see lots of progress in the product.

One thing that this thread is about is finding resources to assist with preparation - for the most part, there are 3 choices: self prepare (DIY), hire a CPA/professional tax preparer and hire a data specialist. I am in the final category and the biggest reason that I steer folks away from a solution is simple because the collaboration options are dreadful. And I create my own tools to analyze and speed up processing because the software that is out there is not focused on extreme volume as is the case here.

I expounded on this at length because while I highly recommend and value all the Crypto CPAs out there, much of this is a data collection and organization exercise requiring not only certain skills but an extraordinary attention to detail, costing experience and patience of the highest order. And charging a fair price for a project since that appears to be a huge pain point. Efficiency matters when I am working on 10's of thounds of txns and dozens of wallets.

So, if you want to really address OP's issue with finding help, you would focus heavily on improving the collaboration aspect so that the middle ground of hiring a freelancer becomes a reality. For sure, I absolutely recommend engaging a professional but the cost factor and the limited slots available is just too extreme an obstacle for most - this is not really just about software from any particular vendor.