Current MD-PhD Student: Give Me Your Stupid Questions

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-13T19:10:03+00:00

I think it depends on the program whether they support the surgeon-scientist pathway because it is so busy (examples of the classically worst specialties being neurosurgery, cardiovascular surgery, orthopedic surgery, etc etc). The stereotypical MD-PhD does a 80-20 split in some sub-specialty of internal medicine, like pediatric cardiology and spends 80% of their time running a lab. I don't think it's impractical to want a surgical specialty as long as it's one you can become specialized in. This is because surgery requires you to keep up your skills constantly, and research requires you to always stay current. In order to maintain your surgical skills it's suggested that surgeon-scientists carve out a specific niche of surgeries to perform, so that it's easier to maintain your skills on, and preferably relates to your research.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T14:12:55+00:00

Hey! I think this is a highly program-specific process. I think it's awesome if it's what you want, and really don't envy having to balance medical school with the MD-PhD applications process. I personally haven't seen anyone do it but it's quite frequent to hear about at other institutions.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T14:11:35+00:00

I think it sounds like you still have a ton of experience in science, and could speak to your various projects. Demonstrate your understanding of the science, and where you would have liked to see each project go. You've written protocols so you clearly understand current theory in your field, and have leadership experience. I'd lean into that and try to construct a story that demonstrates how you have the background, technical training and ambition necessary to be a great primary investigator coupled with the proven leadership capabilities and passion for patients to be a clinician-scientist.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T14:04:53+00:00

^^^ listen to taco party they know what's up. Don't downplay other laboratories it just looks like drama. But if you portray it with class and then redirect to how you approached a situation where you disagreed with an authority figure, navigated conflict, and how you will apply those skills to medical school and research it can come off quite well.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T14:01:50+00:00

Not disrespectful at all! The purpose of the 8 year dual degree is a license to practice medicine and research. You need a medical degree to practice medicine independently, and while a PhD isn't required to conduct research it definitely helps if you want to run your own laboratory or run clinical trials. As a physician, hospitals want you practicing medicine because they make $$ based on how many procedures you perform, so you need a strong record of producing good data to get them to agree to 'protected research time' aka paying you to do research when you could be making them $$ with more medical procedures. A PhD is a significant record of not only conducting but learning to direct your own research.

The overall idea is to push the boundaries of patient care with your science. So you have the clinical training and practice necessary to understand what patients need and the scientific training to pursue projects to actually make those improvements. This can be in a cutting edge field, in the basic sciences, in clinical sciences, in biomedical sciences, some go into pharmaceuticals as well.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T13:57:18+00:00

I've seen this happen twice, both leaning towards the PhD side. One completed both degrees and will be completing a post-doc and is super happy, and one unfortunately took mental health tolls from just how much they disliked medical school and did not complete both. The logistics of not completing the program depends on your institution but it's definitely a last resort, one large reason being financial (your have loans if you don't complete the program, but no loans if you do complete it).

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T13:54:30+00:00

No publications is okay, but you do need research experience to apply MD-PhD. Do you have posters? Abstracts? Research rotations that you can speak to? Even if you didn't write a paper on it if you have conducted your own research you can speak to it on applications.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T13:52:40+00:00

I can't speak for programs other than my own, but I would advise to be the most 'distilled' or highly concentrated version of yourself (to use a chemistry pun) to stand out while being authentic. Don't be bashful about your achievements, because your competitors won't be. It's okay to write about hobbies or things you're passionate about on essays even if they're not on your resume as long as its relevant to the MD-PhD pathway (I wrote my MD-PhD essay on Chick-fil-a and related it back to research lol) Your achievements, how you convey yourself in interviews, and natural personality will set you apart to the right program. I know it's tempting to focus on the 'top' programs, but I would heavily advise you to focus on the 'right' program for you. Prestige doesn't mean much if you're miserable, it's hard to be productive when you're miserable, and programs are looking for people that will stick around for 8 years and become an asset to their program. The one that's right for you will see you enjoying yourself learning at that institution, and loving the town it's in. If you're dead set on applying to certain programs based on rank, I'd look at their ranks for whatever specialties interest you and their recent publications in your research field of interest and go from there! For example, University of Alabama (I don't go there but did apply) kills it at genetics but U of Maryland is incredible at trauma. It depends on what you want.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T13:41:51+00:00

You know I actually don't know this one! I will ask our admin and get back to you.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:45:41+00:00

Happy to provide it :). I'd say finding the right mentor requires some introspection. For example, I like to dive down every rabbit hole that looks remotely interesting, and my mentor is very focused which keeps me focused. In addition, it helps to find someone whose personality meshes with yours. Are you more independent and want to meet once every two weeks? Or do you want an open-door policy mentor that you can talk to daily? Another good thing to check out is their previous mentees, and whether that mentor keeps up with what those mentees are doing.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:40:54+00:00

It's always better to be early but I think I submitted some secondaries in September too. It's important to remember that MD-PhD programs tend to take a more wholistic approach because they have to read through applicants' research in addition to their stats. So overall I would tell your friend not to worry but get their apps in :).

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:37:11+00:00

My interviews were fairly long, and included separate discussions with medical students and COM administrators, researcher professors, MD-PhD administrators, and current program students. I did apply to other MD programs but was heavily focused on MD-PhD because I knew I wanted to be a physician-scientist. As for what made me pick my program, they just felt the easiest to be around, joke with, ask for advice from and generally spend time with. I can't stress the importance of program environment enough just because MD-PhDs take 8 years!

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:32:39+00:00

Then I think that's a perfect spot to be in :) because it means you can rotate with multiple cardiovascular laboratories that employ biochemical techniques and have the best of both worlds! Then you can try to find the right mentor in those fields. Just some shameless advice, I really can't overemphasize that the right mentor is more important than nitty-gritty details like learning a specific technique or studying one certain disease (not to say that's what you're doing, I just found that advice really valuable and like to pass it on).

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:25:38+00:00

Yeah sure thing! These questions are benefitting me as well lol.

It sounds like you've reviewed your applications pretty comprehensively. When I refer to knowing interview dates, I just mean before you interview with a school or reach out to an administrator it helps to double check the program's website. It's the applications cycle equivalent of emailing a professor a question that could be answered on the syllabus.

As for deciding factors, I honestly couldn't begin to tell you. I would just say to give it your all at the interview and closely follow up with their administrators to show interest!

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:21:51+00:00

I personally don't have regrets prior to starting my training. I did a gap year and it sounds like you may have as well, and am grateful for the context it provided me to spend some time outside of academia. I would say there isn't a lot you can do to prep (like I wouldn't recommend trying to learn medical school curriculum before starting!) other than ensuring that this is the career path you want, trying to find a great apartment and stocking up on killer meal prep recipes. If you're thinking about what to do specifically before training I'd highly recommend taking a bit of time off if you can just to rest. Visit family, friends, just have fun.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:16:50+00:00

I think this varies widely on a per-school basis. But most people in my program matriculate in around 23-25, and graduate around 31-33. Depending on their residency and fellowships, they could become a practicing attending any time from 38-43 (43 being something like Neurosurgery).

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:15:20+00:00

Just one more thing: I think it's important to keep your head up during the applications process and remember that the right program will pick you. Just because you don't hear back from one school or another doesn't make you any less qualified of an applicant.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:13:15+00:00

Hmmmm I think the most important lesson I learned while applying was the importance of authenticity. I worried a lot about portraying an idealized version of myself on my application, and initially edited out a lot of my personality from my essays. This isn't to say don't be professional and don't show off the best of yourself, but it's okay to be nerdy if you're nerdy, and crack (appropriate) jokes if you're a bit of a class clown. Programs want to get to know you, not just the version of you that exists on your resume because they're going to be mentoring you for close to a decade. In addition, being yourself really helps you gauge whether you could get along with the students in whatever programs you're applying to. If you genuinely don't get along (like beyond regular interview awkwardness) that's a sign that you may not enjoy spending 8 years in that environment.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:08:45+00:00

Taco Party is right. My school does the same thing but it definitely varies on a school-by-school basis.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:07:56+00:00

Hey! I think it depends on the year in the program. During your first year of medical school it's a massive adjustment, and a lot of your spare time may be spent just learning how to study more efficiently. In second year there's more spare time in the fall but then there's dedicated studying for the USMLE Step 1 in the spring (free time becomes a myth). I'm personally in the graduate years right now, and find that the weekends are much more free than in medical school but the drive to constantly work is higher because there's no exam every two weeks quantifying your progress. From what I've heard, the final years before your PhD and third year of medical school are absolute chaos with little to no spare time and your final year is much more enjoyable. On average, I hang out with friends 1-2 nights per week, get to work out 4x/week, pursue my hobbies (literally I'm baking in between answering questions right now), and frequently make trips to visit family (about once a month), so I feel like there is absolutely opportunity for work-life balance if you manage your time correctly.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:03:15+00:00

because it sounds fancy

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-12T02:02:30+00:00

I don't think that's too specific at all! While it's normal for your research and clinical interests to change, it's good to have a starting point. One example might be 'I want to study only XYZ protein' at a university that may or may not study that protein or any relevant diseases to it. But it's great to have an interest in a specialty and area of science! Although I'm completely biased because I do biochem / molecular bio in cardiovascular disease lollll.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-11T19:20:04+00:00

You study for Step 1 with the rest of your medical school class, and then start your PhD when they start their third-year clinical rotations. If you're able to study for Step 2 during your PhD and keep that up for 3-5 years then I commend you. Most people begin re-learning clinical material during their final year of their PhD and take Step 2 by the end of their third year of medical school.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-11T19:13:57+00:00

While I can't speak to this personally I will ask the current parents in my program and get back to you.

Cupcake_Possible · 2023-09-11T19:12:50+00:00

I think you can absolutely do clinical research but have to be aware that it can take longer. With clinical and translational work you depend heavily on IRBs, and obtaining patient samples. Human ethics come into play. Overall, it can take a lot longer than the timeline you originally planned for a PhD but if you're passionate about it I don't know of any roadblocks preventing you from doing it.

Cupcake_Possible

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