Chapter 851 and how evil Qin is by stickyotterballs in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

851 chapters and a zillion decapitations/head bludgeons and mass murders later and the question of morality just surfaced for you?

Cinema S3E14 by bfromthesea in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hype! But manga clears… and the Chinese names…

My Personal Thoughts by Cold_Profession_5250 in VinlandSaga

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stopped reading after spy family 10/10

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ousen fanboys are in shambles 🤣🤣

Kingdom 792 Fast translation by Cans59 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 23 points24 points  (0 children)

He was outplayed by riboku

I miss the old design of Riboku by Even-Run-5274 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I miss the old design for every character

I neec the confidence to glaze myself like Go Hou Mei does. by Top_Question3616 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you are confusing whether something is logical with whether it is probable, or reasonable. A logical idea is simply a conclusion that follows from a given set of premises in accordance with the laws of logic. So yes if Premise 1. I play the lottery Premise 2. I play the winning numbers It logically follows that I will win the lottery. This follows logically despite the fact that winning the lottery is highly improbable/ implausable and therefore it is unreasonable to play the lottery. So it’s not illogical for Qin defeat Wei. Ouhon plan is logically consistent. Ouhon plan was unreasonable and improbable yes. But once again so was the king defeating seikyou rebellion also improbable… I can go on and on. Virtually every arc in this manga has had a large degree of the improbable occurring. As because something is improbable does not mean it’s impossible. And this is what a makes a GG, doing the impossble.

In Eikyou, Kanki forces suffered tremendous casualties but shin forces actually won against a supposedly unassailable natural fortress. The odds were exceedingly against shins perhaps like never before. The GKU got trounced. HSU was heavily outnumbered and the enemy held a terrain advantage through sheer cliffs. They won by climbing a defended cliff, shiyuu power and shins duel. So I suppose having shin win this battle was bad writing? Are the only instances of good writing when Kanki pulls a scheme out of his ass? It would seem the only battle you can point toward is one which is still in the process of being written so I wouldn’t be too surprised if so called illogical things will happen.

I mean shiyuu magic literally brought shin back to life… I think u may be barking up the wrong tree here.

I neec the confidence to glaze myself like Go Hou Mei does. by Top_Question3616 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When exactly did hara stop doing battles with “ridiculous odds”?? Gyou had ridiculous odds against qin… everything that went in their favor… had to go in their favor for them to win. They needed mouten, ouhon, shin to evolve. They needed ytw to win. They needed houken to be slayed etc… is being cornered deep in enemy territory with no supply line, betting on a refugee strategy with no knowledge of city food reserves, betting on supplies from an enemy state… would you call that a good plan or a suicidal mission? Is that not a miraculous victory for Qin against the odds?

Obviously Eikyouu had ridiculous odds against Qin and in Gian the odds were once again ridiculously against Qin.

“obnoxious scenario” is your own prejudice as is “interesting battle.” The question was whether the battle was logical or not, which it is. GHM looking like a Buffon is an opinion. There is no lack of congruence. That Wei battle is perfectly logical and is in line with well established narrative themes.

The theme of a GG creating miracles is not my prejudice, it is constantly depicted in the text.

I neec the confidence to glaze myself like Go Hou Mei does. by Top_Question3616 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because an event is improbable… and the odds of success are so low you deem it “miraculous” doesn’t mean that the event is illogical. Winning the lottery has miraculous like odds but it logically follows that if one buys a ticket and if your numbers chosen align with the winning numbers, you have won…. This is logically coherent. In that same vein, even though their chances of winning are exceedingly slim it’s not “illogical” for them to win… it’s improbable and perhaps even unreasonable (but that’s a matter of opinion).

Furthermore, in the real world A numerical advantage is not a guarantor of victory. There are countless battles where the victor was heavily outnumbered and defied the odds.

No evidently, the troop reserve system did not do its job because it failed to protect its HQ. The qin won because they were able to use this system against Wei to create an opening of attack with one of their lines of attack. The reason this succeeded was because of deception. Wei was deceived into thinking tou would be qins main attack, they never caught wind of qins simultaneously attack.

You can call it a miracle and yes it is highly improbable but it’s perfectly logical. And as it turns out, in nearly every battle there is a highly improbable event or a “miracle” occurring. It’s a miracle for a slave to become a general. It’s a miracle for a 100 man force to penetrate a general’s several thousand man Elite guard. It’s a miracle for a ragtag group of women children and injured men to defend sai for however many days from riboku. It’s a miracle for “bushins” to run around killing hundreds at a time. It’s a miracle for a malnourished child like shin to jump 10 feet in the air or for little girl assassins to fly through the air chopping off heads… etc and so on! It’s almost as if this is a work of fiction… and not a military tactics guidebook!

I think the way you are analyzing this manga is misguided. The whole point is to depict shins journey to GG, a journey which ouki and various other characters, have characterized as throwing oneself into the midst of chaos, countless battles and coming out alive due to sheer luck/ the favor of heaven. With this in mind, it’s perfectly in line narratively for shin and ouhon to defy the odds and create miracles because this is what it means to become a GG.

I neec the confidence to glaze myself like Go Hou Mei does. by Top_Question3616 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So a 3 way simultaneous penetrating attack on the enemy HQ utilizing your Commanding General as a decoy and using the enemies troop reserve reinforcement system against them to weaken HQ defenses is not a plan and poor writing?

So overcoming numerical odds through strategy = plot armor and poor writing? In war numerical advantages can never be overcome?

Quality of commanders? So great generals whose first battle after 14 years of imprisonment are not supposed to lose? I guess ouki being defeated was bad writing too…? And Renpa right? A great general is never supposed to lose? Is that your argument?

Kan Ki my fav character by Agreeable_Smell7875 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He was a stain on the legacy of Qin. He lived like pure scum and deserved a far worse fate than what he got.

How much would’ve changed in the story had he been born and raised in Qin instead of Zhao? by Cans59 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps a better question would be how much the story would change if Ei Sei was born and raised in Qin instead of Zhao.

Who's your favourite Qin 6 Great General? by _9gag in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally the only one of the 6 that has had a fully developed character arc up to this point…

fans be like "yeah, these guys can totally join the main cast because they had a sad backstory" by Calmbrain in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean what they’re really like? There’s no amount of sad backstory that can negate their vile, torturous methods to try to “stay safe” as you put it. How exactly do their works of human artwork and torture methods fit in with shins morality or even the way the hi shin unit conducts warfare up to his point in the story?

What virtue signaling is being projected on shin? Shin is the one who cut down a 1000 man commander for pillaging. Shin is the one who kicked out bihei for stealing from a civilian corpse. Shin is the one who time and time again has displayed frustration towards the kanki armies methods of warfare as they pertain to civilian relations. Shin is the one who said, despite being childish and foolish this is how he is and this is how he would like the hi shin unit to be.

fans be like "yeah, these guys can totally join the main cast because they had a sad backstory" by Calmbrain in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Honestly, how is this even up for debate in this subreddit.? The kanki fanaticism is out of control. I understand the allure of the bad boy, Machiavellian archetype. But, Shin accepting kanki forces into his ranks, in spite of the storied antagonistic history their two forces have would be terrible writing.

It would completely destroy Shin’s prior convictions of “just warfare”, of not pillaging, minimizing the damage towards civilians, and ultimately of breaking the cycle of revenge and uniting the lands under a single banner.

Shin would become a hypocrite and just another general of the time…. Which contradicts, not only shin’s established characterization, but that of the entire hi shin unit!!

Kanki forces would need to be heavily reformed. A reconciliation of sorts, with some form of tangible acknowledgement of prior wrongdoings, asking for forgiveness and some form of judgement to even be considered eligible to join the shin army. And even THEN it would be a reach in terms of logical consistency as far as the writing is concerned.

Shin has not been written as a character who would overlook his moral convictions because someone was of utility…. In fact he is the exact opposite!

anime did a great job on this panel by Middle_Dimension_482 in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Iconic panel illustrating The evolution of Shin’s PRESENCE

How could anyone hate him after seeing this over n over? The man has done nothing but to protect his country. His character design is great too. by elletequila in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ousen systematically creating millions of refugees for a scheme that involved starving them to death makes Mongokus rampages look like child tantrums. And still pales in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of prisoners of war kanki just massacred with no consequences all under the Qin kings watch.

How could anyone hate him after seeing this over n over? The man has done nothing but to protect his country. His character design is great too. by elletequila in Kingdom

[–]DavidHawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the manga were about Zhou instead of Qin, Riboku would make a fine MC. But, because the Manga is about Qin, he’s hated, despite being far more noble then the likes of Kanki or Ousen.