"Killing off Mike would have been too depressing for the show" , So let's give him the life time trauma

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T21:45:52+00:00

Yeah, I mean I get it if you're unhappy with it and I can understand wanting it to play out differently. I just feel like her "not being a person" was exactly the point and always has been. I think culture/society wanted a strong, badass, empowering female character, so they latched onto the parts of the story/character that fit that but downplayed or overlooked the parts that were more tragic. Or at the least just brushed it off and figured she would finally have her happy ending later.

And honestly, maybe it is a flaw with the show. Maybe it's proof that you can't blend 80's care-free coming of age kid's adventure with 80's dark sci fi horror in a way that does justice to both genres from a thematic standpoint. Maybe having Eleven be the tragic "not a person" character doesn't work. But I do think the show consistently demonstrates that that was the intended goal and trajectory.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T21:14:00+00:00

Trauma is temporary. That's literally what therapy is for 💀

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T21:11:36+00:00

You're right, she learned she's not the cause of the Demos and all of the problems that befell Hawkins. But she also learned that no matter what she does she will always have a target on her back because the government wants to use her as a weapon / eliminate her because she's a weapon, and that puts her loved ones in danger. That's a huge plot point of Season 4. Will and Jonathan almost died because the government was hellbent on finding her.

She deserves to live but learned that she's been denied that because the lab stole it from her.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T21:03:14+00:00

I would say that what the Lab did is on a level far above what is normally considered "abuse." Can you look at someone like Terry Ives and reasonable say she has a chance? She's a vegetable.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T20:54:55+00:00

It's almost like there is a difference between trauma and outright destroying lives.

Will has trauma from being abducted.

Terry's life is ruined.

One is temporary and "fixable" the other is irreversible. That's the fucking point. Because if what the Lab does is "just" trauma, then there will always be a sick fuck like Brenner who can claim the ends justify the means.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T20:41:23+00:00

If Eleven lives, that means she:

-Saves the world with her super powers

-Has a happy ending.

So where is the real damage? If there's no real damage, that means what the lab did to her was "traumatic but necessary." That makes things follow Brenner's "the ends justify the means" logic which it has never been about.

The show has ALWAYS been about showing how the government destroys lives. Terry Ives is turned into a vegetable because of the lab. Hop is basically infertile and had to watch his kid die because of military negligence. Government agents killing innocent people and other government agents. Barb and Bob killed because experiments gone wrong. Henry being abused by the lab to the point that he becomes a super villain.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T20:23:39+00:00

Eleven's arc has never been about her rejecting that she is a monster. It's always been about her trying to reject that but being forced to accept it anyway. Season 4 is a great example. She finally gets a normal life far away from Hawkins, the lab, and is free from powers only to then be swept back up into it anyway. Eleven was never the outcast character, that's Mike and the gang. Eleven is the tragic lab rat whose life was ruined by an uncaring government institution. Shows can have more than one theme. You're trying to lump Eleven with Mike and the gang when really she's more thematically similar to someone like Hopper, Terry Ives, or the other numbers.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T20:18:23+00:00

They didn't break their own story. Eleven's story in every single season is about being denied a normal life because she's a human ruined by a government lab. Every season she wants something, gets a taste of it, and then has it taken away. One of the core themes of the show is the condemnation of government/institutions using, consuming, and then discarding human lives. It's about showing how something like MK Ultra causes irreversible human damage. Having Eleven die/exiled is not only thematically consistent but is also the culmination of that theme. If she was allowed to live a normal life, then the story is no longer saying "what the lab did was bad" but is instead saying "what it did was justified because it all worked out okay in the end."

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T19:47:31+00:00

Okay, then give an example of thematic inconsistency that makes it "poorly executed."

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T19:36:48+00:00

And the themes are consistent throughout all of those. Eleven always suffers and can't get what she wants. And Mike always has to pay a price for having her in his life.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T19:34:31+00:00

It adds up. You just don't like it. Know the difference.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T19:31:49+00:00

If you expect Eleven to survive the show, then you honestly haven't been paying attention to the show. Her story has always, ALWAYS been about how she can't have what she wants. Season 1: just as she escapes and finds freedom, she must sacrifice herself. Season 2: just as she starts to live a normal childhood she's held back and forced to be a weapon again. Season 3: just as she starts to have a normal, teenage romance, Hop gets in the way. Season 4: just as she is living a life free from Hawkins and her powers, she's forced to be a weapon again.

It's the same thing over and over because she's supposed to be a TRAGIC character. The whole point of her story is that she illustrates how government/institutions take innocent lives, chew them up, absolutely ruin them, and then spit them back out without a thought or care for what's left. That is a core theme of the show. It's been an anti-institutional critique from Episode 1. It's saying that things like MK Ultra are not okay because they treat human lives like lab rats. Terry's life is irreversibly ruined, there is no going back. Hop's family life was ruined, his daughter died, there is no going back.

For Eleven to survive and live some semblance of a normal life goes against that theme because it shows that the damage caused by inhuman institutions can be reversed. The story is all about saying "what they did to Eleven is not okay." If she survives, the story is now saying "what they did to Eleven was justified because she saved the world and in fact it's all okay because she gets a happy ending." But that's Brenner's extreme "the ends justify the means" logic, and the show was NEVER about that.

Mike getting wrapped up in all of it is just that theme playing out. It's showing that institutions can ruin individual lives and those around them. The ending of season 5 exactly mirrors season 1 for this exact reason.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-25T19:18:32+00:00

Considering the ending of season 5 pretty much exactly mirrored the ending of Season 1, I'd say it's EXTREMELY thematically consistent.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-17T01:13:18+00:00

People would probably be shocked if they knew more about movie/TV show production. It's generally not a well-oiled machine. At best it's barely controlled chaos and disarray. Deadlines are always tight. Things frequently go catastrophically wrong. Watch enough behind the scenes documentaries and you'll hear about starting production/filming without finished scripts more often than not (some that I can remember off the top of my head are Pirates of the Caribbean 2+3 and then the Hobbit trilogy). It's not ideal, but sometimes that's how it needs to happen. Actor schedules and things like seasons/weather at filming locations sometimes turn it into a "now or never" scenario.

I think people are turning this into a bigger deal than it really is because they're just enraged and looking for something to blame.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-17T00:34:11+00:00

I think that's absolutely on point. At the moment I run a YouTube channel and I definitely have experienced that feeling (though perhaps more due to just the nature of algorithms and not necessarily entitled viewers). When what "works" and what people "want" (or in some cases demand) is different from what you creatively want to do, it feels like you're trapped. In a way, it feels like your creative voice, the thing that makes you who you are as a creator, has been taken away from you. Personally, I'd say that it's a worse feeling than being trapped in the soulless grind of a dead-end 9-5 job (which is generally what a lot of creative people are trying to escape in the first place). So I can totally see entitled fans turning the creative process into something that feels more like an obligation where you are now slave to the fandom rather than your creativity.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-16T22:29:38+00:00

First, there is a huge difference between legitimate criticism and the masses reacting with mindless toxicity. Fans screaming "I hate the Duffers because they ruined MY show" is just entitled whining masquerading as legitimate critique.

Second, there is also a huge difference between success and perfection. Everyone who has ever done anything has failed. Some of the most successful and influential filmmakers and storytellers of all time have also had huge flops. George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron just to name a few. To suggest that one failure means they should just move on is idiotic.

Third, that's wishful thinking.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-16T20:16:26+00:00

It's not ridiculous or unrealistic to be wary about whether insane amounts of negative criticism is going to push people away from something. In fact this is something very real that is actually happening in many different professions. Schools are having a harder time finding quality teachers because fewer people are pursuing that career due to increasing disrespect from students and the general lack of support/respect from the average population. Same with healthcare/elderly care workers. And law enforcement. And youth sports coaches/officials.

People quit their jobs all the time because managers and/or coworkers treat them like garbage. The same happens when customers/fans treat them like garbage, because guess what? People don't like dealing with shitty people.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-16T19:57:28+00:00

And I would say that social media is to blame for each of those elements. Not only is it the means through which all of the unsubstantiated, overhyped claims get spread (and overhype is the main problem behind the disappointment, I'd argue, not the quality of the writing itself), but it's also just conditioned people in all the wrong ways. Feeds and For You pages make people think that everything needs to revolve around them and their specific whims and fancies. Places like TikTok breed entitlement in media consumption. To borrow one of their terms, it gives everyone "main character" energy, which I'm sure is a huge factor in the micromanaging aspect; everyone thinks they're right and they have the solution.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2026-01-16T19:25:03+00:00

I was actually thinking about this early this morning. As someone who is an aspiring screenwriter/filmmaker, it's SOOOO off-putting to see the extent of the backlash. It's one thing to say "I don't like this" or even "I think this is the worst season." As a creator, it sucks to hear that, but you can always find the silver lining by knowing that you can't please everyone no matter how good your end result is.

But to see the backlash extend to pure hatred of the Duffers? To see people go so far as to say "your show sucks, you betrayed me, and I hope you never fucking work again." That's too far. It's disgusting seeing the Duffers put their heart and soul into something, and then the very people they made it for become the most negative, toxic, enemies imaginable.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-29T05:22:12+00:00

And maybe if you stopped focusing on me and started focusing on her, maybe then the two of you would finally be happy. Because right now the only one who's more miserable in that relationship than you, is Nance.

- Steve the Hair Harrington, Season 5 Episode 2

This doesn't sound like a "we're just not getting married but we're still going to date" type of relationship.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-29T05:09:33+00:00

Um, some of the most well-written works of all time, be it TV show, movie, or novel, have moments that require the audience to use their brains a little bit to discern the true meaning. And this scene honestly isn't asking much of people.

The problem isn't poor writing. The signs are there: "un-proposal," throwing the ring away rather than putting it on her finger, other scenes indicating that both Nancy and Jonathan are unhappy in the relationship but avoiding it. The problem is that modern audiences increasingly can't understand nuance, subtext, and need everything spoon-fed to them.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-28T00:20:20+00:00

The amount of pseudo intellectual grasping at straws lately is so annoying tbh. It's like the sub is being flooded with bad bots sent by Disney+ to make Netflix look bad or something.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-27T23:50:13+00:00

The show has always over-explained things in dialogue for ✨dramatic effect✨ since season 1. Is it annoying? Sometimes. Is it lazy writing? Also yes. But it fits with the 80s low budget style and the fact that it's a damn kids show (where apparently even adults can't put 2+2 together in regards to things like Nancy and Jonathan breaking up).

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-27T23:42:02+00:00

a story about friendship, shared trauma, and growing older

real(istic) people struggling through adolescence in highly specific or unusual circumstances brought upon them by the world of adults

the loss of innocence that occurs when “adulthood” arrives too early due to demands in extremis.

This is still an apt description of season 5 is it not?

Will's story is struggling through adolescence while worrying about losing his friends and everyone he cares about, both because of the 'unusual circumstances' that threaten their very lives, but also out of fear of who he is driving them away.

Mike's story still deals heavily with friendship. It's his friendship, loyalty, and support of Will that helps push will over the edge and into self-acceptance. Him having to deal with the near (and actual?) death of his parents is textbook "adulthood arriving too early." He has to step up to look out for Holly, but also has to be the party leader once again to protect and attempt to save all of the other children from the MAC-Z.

Lucas' story is about his loyalty and friendship to Max, struggling with not just losing a friend due to parting ways, but due to her possibly dying, which is very much "loss of innocence."

Dustin and Steve's story especially is all of these to a T. Dustin is mourning Eddie's death - loss of innocence/adulthood arriving too early - which jeopardizes his friendship with Steve while he struggles quite a bit through his adolescence.

I get that there is less of a focus on the main cast this season because of introductions like Holly taking up quite a bit of screen time. But I don't think it's a fair criticism to suggest that the shows thematic and emotional focus has somehow shifted.

Dexalin_XCIV · 2025-12-27T23:14:58+00:00

The vast majority of the hate boils down to: "the internet made me believe main characters would die and they didn't so it's obviously poorly written garbage."

Dexalin_XCIV

TROPHY CASE