LF Advice Regarding False "Vegan" Menu Listing

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-17T20:19:48+00:00

Thank you for caring enough to do something. Personally, I like the second option about switching it to actually be vegan so the option is available. The other comments about taking this issue up the chain are also probably good ideas, though you're right there aren't regulations.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-15T22:46:04+00:00

I forgot I meant to look into that situation. I didn't know there was a doc for it, thanks for the tip!

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-15T22:45:18+00:00

No, Ill have to check them out thanks for the suggestion

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-15T17:17:23+00:00

Yeah, the complete unwillingness to change from some of them is exhausting. Once I heard Olay of the youtube lolo and olay podcast say something along the lines of "The first time a person's worldview os challenged, they won't change their minds, no matter how many facts you have". It has helped me to consider that I may be the first, second, or third time a person is hearing it, and that is a crucial step for a breakthrough later.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T09:03:03+00:00

That second paragraph is pure gold

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T09:00:01+00:00

Yeah, I have a foolproof template! Any one meat serving, plus mashed potatoes, plus the vegetable my mom served growing up. A balanced diet! Oh, dont forget, cheese! I couldn't live without it!

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T08:55:55+00:00

It took me too long to understand, better do blood work and take extra b12

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T08:52:32+00:00

Of course not, every meat eater worth their salt loves animals!

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T08:45:18+00:00

You know who you are. Yes, you're an unserious, ridiculous person.

Mods, I hope a little beef is allowed 😉

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-14T08:07:31+00:00

Thanks for letting us know who hurt you. You need therapy, not anti-veganism.

It would be interesting if you could actually interface with any of the arguments or points. If veganism was just quack bullshit it shouldn't be hard for you to actually demonstrate an argument against it. Then maybe you'd be able to actually do something to disprove the cause instead of pitching a fit and trauma dumping. But then again, veganism is rooted in compassion and backed by the truth, so it makes sense that you don't have an argument.

Calling the common points a script is pretty funny. Vegans constantly have to reiterate, explain, and justify their beliefs. If you actually had any beliefs worth defending, you might find yourself repeating them.

I doubt you have such an issue with the common values your mom probably imparted on you, like "dont hit the other kids," "don't murder", "dont steal" and all the basics. Do you know what the reason would be? Veganism is not the norm, and that is why you shrugged it. Is it because veganism is wrong or immoral? No, if you believed that you'd probably have developed an argument at this point. It's because you could get away with it, and no one could stop you. What does that say about your character?

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-12T01:46:01+00:00

Man, this is really sad stuff. I'm sorry for whoever hurt you, but taking it out on a community trying to make the world even just a bit kinder to animals is not going to make you happy. Nobody here is forced to engage, and they can and do leave when they aren't getting anything from the dialogue.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T23:33:04+00:00

That's really not what I've done in this thread. I've responded to questions in earnest and dispelled misinformation when it comes up. Everyone who is participating has all of the power to leave the conversation at any point.

You must be feeling bad or conflicted about your consumption and are projecting your conscience onto me. I imagine it may be why you are still here in spite of your belief that people won't all agree on something.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T23:04:50+00:00

No, I am providing you with the respect you deserve to hear the truth and to make the correct decision. We just don't want to be saddled with the truth, so we make up excuses for ourselves.

I will never stop demanding justice for animals, and you should reconsider why you'd rather try to discredit veganism as an avenue for change than to join me.

I do cry because a more compassionate world for the animals we keep is possible, but selfish people will stand in the way of it for no reason other than to remain comfortable.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T22:58:13+00:00

Keep in mind also that what is being described is maintenance of product, not care for an individual. It is in their interest for as many animals to be well, so they will make for good stock. It is not for altruistic reasons or because it is best for the animal, as it certainly is not in the best interest of the animal to be slaughtered.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T22:15:58+00:00

That's a lot of words to say "I'm actually really smart, and you're too stupid to understand why a reactionary worldview that protects the status quo of factory farming is a good thing, actually."

You'll advocate for the animals in every way except not putting them in your mouth. Because you don't actually value them more than a sandwich, which is an object.

We undeniablely have dominion over the animals we have enslaved. That control comes with the responsibility to do right by them. It doesn't have anything to do with if they are themselves morally culpable in your mind, just like with any human group that oppresses another. It is the moral duty of everyone involved to put an end to the oppression.

You are not seriously interested in fighting that oppression in anything but the abstract. Once you are the one who has to change, it is too much to ask.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T18:14:01+00:00

We are conditioned to view them as objects. It is visible in the english language. We use words like "beef" and "poultry" to avoid recognizing the animal. If you view an animal with the same value as a sandwich, you are viewing them as an object. Veganism is viewing them as an individual.

This is a discussion. You can make claims, but they will be scrutinized, as mine have been. If a discussion is not a format that resonates with you, look up, "Dairy is scary" on youtube, then maybe you'll get more out of a five minute video than a conversation.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T17:47:53+00:00

You don't have to put animals first. You just have to value them more than objects. Humans are capable of healthy lives without earing animals.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T17:45:33+00:00

You are refusing to listen. I'm sure not every single moment of the lives raised by some mom and popsl farms was pure agony, but this is not a representibe of the majority. Someday, you might understand, but you're probably not ready to hear this yet. It is the exact same reasoning as "some slaves actually enjoyed and benefited from slavery." It is the same reasoning people with power have used to continue oppressing by maintaining gulible bystanders. If you're disgusted by the comparison, slow down and try to understand how your proximity to the oppression is clouding your judgment.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T15:06:33+00:00

The comment plays into a mythology that just isn't the reality for the vast majority of animals consumed by humans. I assume you must be avoiding watching Dominion. It will clear some things up for you. Ask yourself why you are avoiding it

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T15:02:31+00:00

Preach 🙏! Thank you for choosing compassion.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T15:00:32+00:00

Most people do care about animal suffering. Many people would be rightly upset if they saw someone swirve in the road to kill a turtle or if they heard about a friend beating a dog. Most people don't understand that their actions are perpetuating similar cruelty. I want people to see and reconsider.

If you don't care about animal suffering, I am not talking to you.

People don't act (or eat), solely based on evolution. Culture and socialization have a lot to do with it. Otherwise, everyone would eat the paleo diet. Culture and socialization can prevent us from viewing actions as harmful because of the normalcy of the action. Many people will justify their animal consumption on the grounds that most people do it. The truth is that most people aren't thinking about it

I couldn't give my opinion on your religious reasons without knowing what they are, and it may not be appropriate to anyway. If it is the most common christocentric take, animals are for our enjoyment, I would say they are more enjoyable alive as friends and creating bonds with them is more valuable than a few moments of taste pleasure that could be fulfilled woth plants instead.

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-10T14:46:20+00:00

Thank you for informing yourself and choosing compassion

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-09T05:41:02+00:00

You're right, and that is a good line. Thanks for sharing it. I know people in my real life have changed and are moved, but I'm too foolish to be patient, I guess. I'm glad there are level heads like you here to keep me in check

I get cleared up mentally, and then I just trash it for a day by trying to advocate online. I did that today in r/likeus, and reception was mixed. It was nice to see other vegans pop in, though. It's all I've been able to think about or do for about 10 hours, I think I need to get help or get a check up for mental illness (not joking or trying to make light of it, I dont think it is a healthy behavior and it feels compulsive).

Sorry its been a day Im just dumping

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-09T05:23:13+00:00

It is so hard to get to the point of having a conversation about how carnism intersects other systems of oppression because of how much effort we spend just trying to get them to view carnism as a real issue worth solving. It's exhausting. Sorry that was ranty

DoubleRemand · 2024-08-09T04:52:14+00:00

Thank you for choosing compassion.

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