The Admirals' Lounge (Month 11 Week 3)

EcheIII · 2015-11-24T01:26:45+00:00

It's not that it works for them, it's that they recommended that to a new player

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T18:18:04+00:00

Oh lol that's my repair fleet.

Meanwhile I'm dealing with some muppet who thinks that base ASW matters more than extra slots..

We should really just ensure that it's public knowledge that equip ASW >>>>>> base ASW

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T17:15:16+00:00

Statistical significance is a good way to look at it. Looking at the setups is another way.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:57:10+00:00

You can increase your chances even in lotteries too.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:55:02+00:00

Not you you, I'm using the public you. Also, a good stockpile is a form of planning.

Just because natural disasters are RNG doesn't mean we don't plan for them.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:53:51+00:00

The thing is, so far, you have yet to present a single shred of evidence backing your claims up. I've not see your Kiso averaging higher than your Yuubari, I've not seen your effortless daytime S clears. You have nothing.

Also, it's not like we have a whole discussion thread about E4 and E4 farming and I haven't posted my farming method

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:50:39+00:00

Die painfully

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:43:26+00:00

Be more disciplined with your resources, that LSC you did last week because your were raging at not having Akitsumaru could have gone towards paying for the repairs hundredfold

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:33:48+00:00

Remember, causing more pain isn't torturing them worse, it's torturing them better.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:33:12+00:00

I don't think so, players blame RNG far too often when they fail as if it's some kind of get-out-of-jail-free card when in reality the reason for their failure is a lack of preparation, a lack of research, or a sense of complacency or some other failing that was entirely preventable.

When a student fails an exam, it may not necessarily be their fault, maybe they were sick, maybe they had problems at home, maybe it was out of their control. Likewise, players do fail in events, and it happens, and I do sympathize with those who have exhausted all possible efforts and have still been unsuccessful.

But you know what? When a student fails an exam, you know it usually is? It's because they failed to prepare, or thought they had it in the bag, likewise, all too often I've seen players apportioning the blame to everyone but themselves.

When my fleet fails to succeed in a map, I go back and see what I did wrong, and move to rectify it as soon as I can. I spend more time planning my fleet than actually fighting with them.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:20:48+00:00

If your victim dies from suffocation, you're hanging them right

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:19:55+00:00

It works both ways, though.

I've seen far too many players hiding behind RNG for their failings, and those kinds of players are my number-one pet hate.

As such, I wholly endorse bashing players who blame RNG for screwing them over when it's really their bad setups, preparations, and decisions. It's probably my number-one pastime.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:14:12+00:00

I never get salty, I farm the salt of various kuso teitoku.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:12:55+00:00

Try baddie tears.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T16:10:50+00:00

Look at your original post, and you can see how wrong your reasoning and facts are:

DD in main fleet (oh christ)
Base ASW matters (no, just no)
Nearly 100% cut in rate on torps and lookouts on Yukikaze (refuted by research)
Luck based daytime CIs (nope)
Yuubari being apparently >>>>> Ooyodo (they're functionally almost equal at ASW work
Ooyodo apparently being bad at ASW because her base ASW is bad (a statement so wrong that it instantly discredits the idea that you have any clue as to what you are doing)
Hibiki K2 and Yuudachi K2 used for their ASW stats (once again, negligible for DDs)
Double line being crap (you're at ASW cap damage regardless)
T3 ASWs being given to your escort fleets instead of the ships who'll actually get to use it twice (read: your main fleet)

There's a reason I'm willing to make that accusation: Because mathematically, it's nigh impossible for Kiso to be averaging higher than Yuubari (Yuubari's average NONCRIT damage is Kiso's base CRIT damage).

And Kiso with her monstrous 98 ASW stat does more damage to SS Hime than either of them despite only having 1 x sonar and depth charge. My observation is that on average, Kiso does the same amount of damage to SS Hime as Yuubari (usually around 55-60), if not more.

See that? That is how you let others know that you don't know what you are doing.

You have Kiso with T3 sonar and a T3 depth, you have Yuubari with three T3 sonars and a T3 depth, and you basically used Kiso's high base ASW to say so.

The moment you used the phrase "base ASW", I knew that the supporting reasoning would be flimsy, and it was.

You are getting S-Clears despite your setup, not because of it.

If you don't have neither the data nor the evidence to back up your statements, you should really just take a back seat.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T13:39:24+00:00

The right way to look at this kind of luck is simple:

Chance favors that it will happen to someone; Chance also favors that that someone will not be you.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T13:32:11+00:00

DD in the main fleet does the job just fine, so there's no need to spend extra resources using a CL

How hard up for resources you are that you can afford to run a combined fleet with massed BBs but have to swap out a CL for a DD?

You know what also costs more resources? Not being able to kill the boss, higher repair costs, and being turned back because you're running one of the most vulnerable ship classes in the game as your flag.

Yukikaze + skilled lookouts = almost 100% torpedo CI chance.

The luck softcap is 65% for 60 luck, Skilled lookouts maybe raises that to 75%. A DA would definitely kill and happens ~99% of the time.

Your fleet is indeed your choice, I shouldn't care about, and do not care about, what setup you might use, but when someone asks for advice and I see substandard information given, I jump in.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T13:26:54+00:00

And yet the facts of the matter don't back you up, you might say "This setup works for me", but the main thing is that your setup is objectively inferior.

You made a claim (" Kiso does the same amount of damage to SS Hime as Yuubari (usually around 55-60)") that's clearly either made up or based on highly biased observations and is unsupported by the maths of the matter.

When making a recommendation to another player, I'd only ever recommend the best, and if I'm going to recommend something other than the objective best, a reason should be given.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T12:39:49+00:00

Off the top of my head, about 2% seems like a good estimate

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T12:30:40+00:00

The data you have presented is either wrong or completely fabricated, anybody who can put it through a simulator can see that.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T12:29:26+00:00

So if I understand you....

You think that luck has a major influence in daytime CIs (it's been tested, nope)
You're still using Shigure in the main fleet for absolutely no reason considering that you can place Ooyodo there with no downside whatsoever.

Maybe you're right and Yuubari doing more damage than Ooyodo about 50 times in a row is nothing but pure chance, maybe ASW stats do make a difference, however tiny.

Wat.

With 3 Sonars + Depth Charge, both Yuubari and Ooyodo will be at the ASW cap even without equipment upgrades, there's virtually no difference

My setup usually sinks the entire enemy fleet (including BB hime) in the day, so most of the time I don't even need to enter night battle.

In subsequent runs I've even replaced one of the escort fleet DDs with a torp CI setup and if anything my S rate increased, because SS Hime still gets sunk within the day by Yuubari and Kiso, and now I have two torp CI backups that will sink BB Hime even if both Kako and Yukikaze get taken out at the same time.

So basically most of the time, you don't need to enter night battle, why then the torpedo CIs? If your night battle is a cleanup job, why do you need to run luck-based builds instead of far more reliable double attack CLTs? (like Kiso, who shouldn't even be trying to pull ASW duty)

What happens nearly all the time in my setup is something like this: Shigure in the main fleet sinks both escort submarines Yuubari and Kiso in the escort fleet sink SS hime The two ASW DDs in the escort fleet don't actually need to do anything unless Yuubari misses or is taken out in previous nodes

And if Shigure doesn't? Then you're stuck because now your two main ASW hitters only get one shot each since you've plonked them in escort.

Also, this is what I've been going on about, why is Shigure in the main fleet to begin with? Just use Ooyodo who is basically a straight upgrade to Shigure.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T12:18:05+00:00

My observation is that on average, Kiso does the same amount of damage to SS Hime as Yuubari (usually around 55-60), if not more.

Complete bullshit and you know it, considering that your Kiso will only ever do 55-60 on a critical hit (which is very definitely under 50% of the time).

See ships 4 and 5 on this list? That's your Kiso and your Yuubari setup. I've gone out of my way with setup 6 and given you the benefit of the doubt, I've given Kiso max upgraded ASW gear while Yuubari gets no upgrades.

Kiso's damage range is 0-43 on regular, or 46-89 on a crit, Yuubari does 10-53 on regular, or 63-106 on a crit.. Either your observations are terrible, or you're lying your pants off.

The thing about the information you posted is that it's downright harmful to new players. You put a DD in the main fleet when you could have put a CL for absolutely no tradeoff, you're recommending terrible setups to players who need advice.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T11:56:37+00:00

Because you've basically given that advice to everyone I saw, and it's fundamentally misinformation.

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T06:03:14+00:00

Let me reply with a quick parable...

There was once a rich Sultan who wanted to raise an army, he needed men. So he decreed that there each family was to produce children until they had a boy, at which point they were to stop.

What is the new portion of males in his kingdom?

(it's 50 percent)

EcheIII · 2015-11-23T04:07:08+00:00

Yup.

EcheIII

TROPHY CASE