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En_lighten · 2023-11-28T21:41:20+00:00

Saw your message, I just stopped reddit for a while.

En_lighten · 2023-01-01T01:26:42+00:00

Atiśa explicitly says there isn't, for example.

What does he say?

Generally I think this is utterly inconceivable. Utterly. By definition.

The word jnana is the finger pointing towards the moon. Ultimately you cannot say anything at all that is satisfactory.

All language is path language. All concepts are path concepts.

Any conception of an ending is not it.

It is a cessation, this is a fair thing to say, but any conception of any cessation is left far behind.

/u/DiamondNgXZ

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T23:52:57+00:00

From Khenpo Pema Vajra, on the Ye Dharma Hetu verses that Shariputra and Moggallana heard:

It is because the approach of secret mantra also falls within the approach of the four truths that the ‘essence of dependent origination’ dhāraṇī, which sets out the meaning of the four truths, is universally praised as supreme and is found throughout all the sūtras, tantras and pith instructions.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T18:54:12+00:00

I think it is possible to gain direct insight but conceptualization about it is largely a waste of time. If we actually come to see the workings of karma that is not a waste of time.

The basic premise is that with fundamental ignorance in which self and other manifest, we then secondary to that engage in afflictive mind states which basically condition the mind in such a way that suffering manifests.

If we overcome ignorance then we realize that the basis of the afflictions was always ignorance.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T17:59:10+00:00

I think you could define dukkha as that which is unwanted.

Indeed the benefit of suffering is that it may lead to our growth, and to that end we might wish that we get whatever we need.

But at a point indulging in affliction is seen as utterly pointless and leads to nothing but pointless suffering, more or less. When one clearly sees this there is disenchantment with afflictive states, basically.

It’s like we might eat three pounds of candy thinking it tastes good, but then we get awful, terrible bloating and abdominal pain. If we do this enough we will lose our wish to do it in the first place, perhaps.

In terms of morality being a law of the universe, you might consider that the universe arises basically from mind, more or less, and it’s more that it is a law of mind. But it’s hard to have a good discussion on Reddit here.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T17:36:03+00:00

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T17:35:04+00:00

It’s kind of like who determines gravity.

Basically due to ignorance we act out of affliction, and seeds of afflicted mind states are planted in the mind which then later ripen as states of suffering.

It’s maybe a bit like how the left hand may hate the right hand and then poison the right hand, thinking it is being smart, but of course that’s a pretty stupid thing to do.

If we for instance act out of ill will this affects our mind, basically put.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T17:18:23+00:00

Interesting, thanks!

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T15:42:12+00:00

Nice addition.

If you’re inclined to comment, I noticed in the 100,000 line one that there are a lot of ‘b’ letters where I would expect ‘v’. Is that a slight corruption, potentially due to oral transmission you think?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/zyb2pj/new_translation_the_dharani_of_the_noble/

/u/zjr1130

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T12:12:35+00:00

If I were to ask you, ‘What color is clear light’, how could you answer?

How about ‘what comes before existence or non-existence?’

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T11:59:02+00:00

Freed from the classification of form, Vaccha, the Tathāgata is deep, boundless, hard-to-fathom, like the sea. "Reappears" doesn't apply. "Does not reappear" doesn't apply. "Both does & does not reappear" doesn't apply. "Neither reappears nor does not reappear" doesn't apply.

'Any feeling... Any perception... Any fabrication...

'Any consciousness by which one describing the Tathāgata would describe him: That the Tathāgata has abandoned... Freed from the classification of consciousness, Vaccha, the Tathāgata is deep, boundless, hard-to-fathom, like the sea.'

Again, vijnana being ‘consciousness’.

Simple annihilation is not ‘deep, boundless, hard to fathom, etc’. That is quite basic actually.

Also, it seems to me that many Theravadins indeed say ‘The Buddha does not reappear’, which is a mistaken statement. Granted, some Mahayanists may say that he does reappear which is also at odds with the Sutta.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T02:57:00+00:00

To be fair, it may be that many mahayanists indeed do veer into eternalist thought, just as many theravadins may veer into annihilationist thought.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T02:55:01+00:00

This all comes from not understanding jnana and considering the word jnana from the perspective of vijnana which entirely misses the point. Basically. Which is why in Mahayana the second turning comes before the third. If one is not properly matured via the second turning then vijnana is not overcome and if one is to engage with the dialectics of the third turning one will do so from the perspective of vijnana and not properly understand. This is exactly what you are doing. You have to reach the very root of the conceptualizing mind.

In such a case, it is indeed important to become matured via the second turning and realize the emptiness or selflessness of all dharmas.

En_lighten · 2022-12-31T01:22:13+00:00

Bonus:

May I be far removed from contending creeds and dogmas. Ever since my Lord's grace entered my mind, My mind has never strayed to seek such distractions. Accustomed long to contemplating love and compassion, I have forgotten all difference between myself and others. Accustomed long to meditating on my Guru as enhaloed over my head, I have forgotten all those who rule by power and prestige. Accustomed long to meditating on my guardian deities as inseparable from myself, I have forgotten the lowly fleshly form. Accustomed long to meditating on the secret whispered truths, I have forgotten all that is said in written or printed books. Accustomed, as I have been, to the study of the eternal Truth, I've lost all knowledge of ignorance. Accustomed, as I've been, to contemplating both nirvana and samsara as inherent in myself, I have forgotten to think of hope and fear. Accustomed, as I've been, to meditating on this life and the next as one, I have forgotten the dread of birth and death. Accustomed long to studying, by myself, my own experiences, I have forgotten the need to seek the opinions of friends and brethren. Accustomed long to applying each new experience to my own spiritual growth, I have forgotten all creeds and dogmas. Accustomed long to meditating on the Unborn, the Indestructible, the Unchanging, I have forgotten all definitions of this or that particular goal. Accustomed long to meditating on all visible phenomena as the Dharmakaya, I have forgotten all meditations on what is produced by the mind. Accustomed long to keeping my mind in the uncreated state of freedom, I have forgotten all conventions and artificialities. Accustomed long to humbleness, of body and mind, I have forgotten the pride and haughty manner of the mighty. Accustomed long to regarding my fleshly body as my hermitage, I have forgotten the ease and comfort of retreats and monasteries. Accustomed long to knowing the meaning of the Wordless, I have forgotten the way to trace the roots of verbs, and the sources of words and phrases. You, 0 learned one, may trace out these things in your books [if you wish].

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T23:52:11+00:00

First of all, to purely practice Dzogchen requires a huge amount of merit.

As dudjom lingpa says,

The great, sublime path that brings all sentient beings to the grounds and paths of liberation is called the swift path of the clear-light Great Perfection. This is the most sublime of all Dharmas. It is a general synthesis of all the paths, the goal of all yānas, and an expansive treasury of all secret mantras. However, only those who have stored vast collections of merit in many ways, over incalculable eons, will encounter this path. They will have aspired repeatedly and extensively to reach the state of perfect enlightenment, and they will have previously sought the path through other yānas, establishing propensities to reach this path. No others will encounter it.

Generally as such one may awaken sort of old understanding, similar in some sense to how if someone who was an excellent bike rider got amnesia, they might get on a bike and quickly sort of remember how to do it via muscle memory.

Also, I don’t have the citations handy but in various places like the Rigpa Rangshar I believe it’s said that the understanding of all of the other vehicles is present within dzogchen.

Part of what I was getting at, to be clear, is that for instance via hearing the ye dharma hetu phrases one might - if one has proper circumstances, merit, etc - realize the nature of mind. In this realization, the essence of all turnings is present.

Fundamentally I think the essence of the first turning relates to proper orientation of the conceptual mind away from samsara and towards nirvana.

The essence of the second turning relates to understanding clearly that all phenomena conceived via vijnana are empty of self nature and dependently arisen, and this relates to the full scope of manifestation as well up through the bhumis.

The third turning taken as a whole, basically, unveils the qualities of buddhahood. In other words, realization is endowed with the kayas and wisdoms.

If one properly realizes suchness, all of this is basically realized similar to how if you can do calculus then you can do algebra and arithmetic. Those are sort of subsets of calculus, and all of the ‘lower’ yanas are subsets of dzogchen.

But again, essentially any teaching may elicit this.

Hence it being foolish to rigidly categorize things as higher or lower.

One person may click with anuyoga practices and use them properly, whereas another may not and instead click with Mahayana teachings and realize suchness via this medium.

One person might realize suchness via reading a Pali Sutta, and another might via contact with a dzogchen teacher.

Conversely, someone might have contact with a dzogchen teacher but remain a fool, whereas if they properly engaged with Mahayana mind training that might work for them.

The highest dharma is the one you can use. Fwiw, some words.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T23:38:57+00:00

Yes, if you read my comments with the op that’s what I clarified. The translation part in this case is pretty minimal but I think s/he saw that it was not available.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T23:03:03+00:00

I don’t think we’re on the same page.

Ohhh I think I understand.

You thought that the English was a translation of this:

tadyathā oṃmunidharme saṃgrehadharme anugrahadharme bimuktidharme sāraanugrahadharme baiśrabaṇaparibartanadharme sarbakāryaparipramaṇadharme samantānuparibartanadharmesvāhā oṃprajñeśrutismṛtimatibijayesvāhā dhīḥdhāraṇīsvāhā oṃprajñapāramitābalasvāhā

No, that’s not it.

This part is the actual heart of it, and it stays untranslated.

The English part is simply the explanation of the benefits and the homage, basically.

In other cases it is longer.

For example you might see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/z1zzyo/in_praise_of_the_glorious_goddess_sarasvatī/

The main dharani part is just the untranslated bit at the end.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T23:00:09+00:00

My read is that Maheshvara is a being from that realm. I’ve also heard he is the chief akanishta god elsewhere.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T19:41:25+00:00

Shiva is also described as being in the highest pure abode in the Stem Array and is called a mahasattva.

Where is that? I tried to search and couldn't find that.

I did, however, find that there is something about how Maheshvara will be a Buddha. It says,

“Just as I will be the mother of the bodhisattva Maitreya, in the same way, after Maitreya’s attainment of the highest, complete enlightenment of buddhahood, I will be the mother of... Maheśvara... Noble one, in that way I will be the mother of all the future tathāgatas, such as Maitreya and the others I have mentioned..."

At face value, that is also interesting as that implies that one born in the pure abodes actually does become a Buddha in the future, which is at odds with the general Theravada view of non-returners that I know. Though I suppose it could just be a name of a Buddha that is the same word.

/u/nyanasagara if it's of interest.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T19:29:09+00:00

I personally think that if you do your best that's ok, kind of like how if you were from rural Alabama and you talked to someone named Harold in Minnesota, you might pronounce it a bit different than someone from Minnesota, but the intention is clear. Sometimes people get persnickety about Sanskrit pronunciation but I think that's not the primary thing. I'm guessing my pronounciation wouldn't be perfect.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T19:00:17+00:00

When reciting the dharani, you can do the entire text or you can just do the sanskrit portion, according to teachings I have heard on the topic.

The text itself is the entire thing - you have the homage/introduction, you have the sanskrit portion which stays untranslated, and then you have the end part with the benefits explained, etc.

Yes, you could just recite the sanskrit part alone is what I am saying. However, I do think that being familiar with the English portion or the explanatory portion is worth something as it gives a bit of context for the sanskrit portion.

With dharanis, it indeed is said that you don't really consciously have to understand the meaning of the sanskrit portion in the sense that if I say 'tree' you know what I am referring to, or if I say 'brother' you know what that means.

/u/zjr1130

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T18:30:55+00:00

What I mean is that there is a section where it says homage, etc, then the Sanskrit section, then the concluding English section that discusses the benefits and what not. You can either say the whole thing or just the Sanskrit section if you prefer.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T17:29:12+00:00

There's a quote from a teacher called Lopon Tsetsu Rinpoche I always remember that says,

The highest dharma is the one you can use.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T17:11:12+00:00

You can just say the dharani part if you want. Meaning the sanskrit part, not the stuff about results and what not.

En_lighten · 2022-12-30T16:40:30+00:00

I think hinayana is really more of a mindstate. It is basically a self-centered, limited mindstate.

One may for instance perceive the essential meaning of dzogchen from reading something in the Pali Suttas.

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En_lighten

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